Illegal Immigration

[Bollocks]

This is rather amusing, it shows you know nothing about the problem or how people are talking about it. You're interjecting race, this isn't a race issue.

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Sources, because I smell bullshit. It doesn't even make sense. How does someone working under the table contribute their share of cost? You think a state sales tax on goods, especially when they send a lot of their money back home offsets the cost to the infrastructure needed to support them? Well shit, we should all just do that, and it will fix the federal budget.

There are a bunch of sources on the issue, I found this one on a quick google search: http://www.itep.org/immigration/

[May90]

Start putting the CEO's of companies that knowingly hire illegal immigrants in jail and you will see illegal immigration start steadily declining.

But if you """fine""" them at a lower rate than the profits they make from hiring illegal immigrants IT WON'T DO ANYTHING.

How do you prove that someone knowingly hired an illegal immigrant? On many basic jobs, the application process is very short, you barely need anything beyond social security number (which an illegal immigrant can steal), if even that. Especially those short-timed jobs, when you are hired to do something for a few days and get paid afterwards.

[May90]

How do they do it now? Same answer.

I don't know how they do it now. Hence why I asked.

[zenkai]

There are a bunch of sources on the issue, I found this one on a quick google search: http://www.itep.org/immigration/

Yeah that says what they brought in, didn't say how much they cost.

http://www.fairus.org/publications/t...ates-taxpayers

I mean simple math alone

11.64 billion/11million = 1,058.18 per person, That's not even half my property tax. Do you think it only cost 1k per person to support the infrastructure they use?

Companies are exploiting illegal immigrants and tax payers are paying the cost.

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How do you prove that someone knowingly hired an illegal immigrant? On many basic jobs, the application process is very short, you barely need anything beyond social security number (which an illegal immigrant can steal), if even that. Especially those short-timed jobs, when you are hired to do something for a few days and get paid afterwards.

You need 2 forms of ID to get a job, if they have that, then it shouldn't be on the employer. Most don't pay income tax so most don't have that.

[nanook12]

What video? You didn't link a video. Did you just cut and paste someone else's post from another forum?

This video.

I seen it on my facebook feed and it just pissed me off because she made immigration looks good without covering the things I suggested in the original post.

[Darsithis]

How do you pay the same amount in taxes as a non-citizen does when much of our tax code depends on the person paying taxes being a citizen.

What do.

How do.

Confused.

If you have a job, stolen SSN/documents or not that isn't under-the-table, you're paying taxes on that income. Yes, you can probably claim more exemptions that you should, but don't act like illegal immigrants are the only people to do just that.

[Bollocks]

Yeah that says what they brought in, didn't say how much they cost.

http://www.fairus.org/publications/t...ates-taxpayers

I mean simple math alone

11.64 billion/11million = 1,058.18 per person, That's not even half my property tax. Do you think it only cost 1k per person to support the infrastructure they use?
.

1. Illegal immigrants do not recieve the benefits of social security programs. That study of your factor children and directly assumes that half of the illegal immigrants work under the table.
2. That does not factor the possitive effects that come aside from taxes. Paticulary on demand, illegal immigrants and generally poor people tend to spend most of their income on products for their daily lives.
That generates a net benefit of 22 billion dollars, according to Borjas
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Immigration.html

economic gains from immigration, therefore, are relatively small: about $22 billion per year (in 2003 dollars). Of course, not everyone benefits equally from immigration

There are other studies with different results

Also using debt doesn't seem to be reasonable, given that it does not matter. What woul be interesting would be to see aside by side comparison of gdp/debt generated.

[Gorgodeus]

Their children constitute more than 3%. Big deal if immigration is slowing down now over a few short years because there has been massive migration from Mexico to the United States over the past 3 decades.

I notice you post a graph that stops at 2010, which just conveniently is when the actual numbers of illegal immigrants start decreasing due to more leaving the country than entering.

And by the way. That graph represents all immigrants, legal and illegal, which has no bearing on the subject at hand.

There is currently only less than 11 million illegal immigrants in the US.

[Darsithis]

Their children constitute more than 3%. Big deal if immigration is slowing down now over a few short years because there has been massive migration from Mexico to the United States over the past 3 decades.
http://cis.org/sites/cis.org/files/a...ng-2011-f1.jpg

You realize that this shows all immigrants, not just illegal, and stops in 2010, where it crested over and started to decline?

[Xires]

So what do you want to do about it? Fix these broken systems or just blame all the problems on brown people so that you can pretend to be concerned while continuing to do nothing?

Wanna know what I wanna do to fix it? How about enforcing the laws we already have. People that overstay their visas should be deported. People who came here illegally should be deported. Problem solved.

[Rasulis]

Start putting the CEO's of companies that knowingly hire illegal immigrants in jail and you will see illegal immigration start steadily declining.

But if you """fine""" them at a lower rate than the profits they make from hiring illegal immigrants IT WON'T DO ANYTHING.

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How do you pay the same amount in taxes as a non-citizen does when much of our tax code depends on the person paying taxes being a citizen.

What do.

How do.

Confused.

Automatic withholdings. Look at your paychecks. Your employers deduct money from your salary for payments to the IRS and your state Tax Franchise. Most people will get some of that refunded when they file their tax return. However, illegal immigrants can not file a tax return. So the Fed and States get to keep all of it.

[Xires]

So punish the people who break the law and employ them. Oh, wait, that'd be punishing businesses who can do no wrong! Oh no we can't do that!

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Okay, great we don't agree, whatevs.

I want to enforce the laws we have now which includes punishing corporations that hire them.

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You realize that this shows all immigrants, not just illegal, and stops in 2010, where it crested over and started to decline?

I'm sorry but illegal immigration has soared under Obama. It was big news in 2014.

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If you have a job, stolen SSN/documents or not that isn't under-the-table, you're paying taxes on that income. Yes, you can probably claim more exemptions that you should, but don't act like illegal immigrants are the only people to do just that.

You don't get it. Illegal immigration shouldn't even be a problem hence "illegal". Is it just me or is it ONLY the western world that HAS to have illegals? I don't see any other non-white country tolerating that kind of shit but then again...only whitey has to tolerate it because then it would be "racist" if they didn't. Why don't you take a look at Mexico's immigration policy and let me know your thoughts.

[Gorgodeus]

I'm sorry but illegal immigration has soared under Obama. It was big news in 2014.

You are wrong. The number living in the US has pretty much declined every year since 2007. Go lie somewhere else. Some of us actually know how to find facts, and not spew untruths that are politically based.

[zenkai]

1. Illegal immigrants do not recieve the benefits of social security programs. That study of your factor children and directly assumes that half of the illegal immigrants work under the table.
2. That does not factor the possitive effects that come aside from taxes. Paticulary on demand, illegal immigrants and generally poor people tend to spend most of their income on products for their daily lives.
That generates a net benefit of 22 billion dollars, according to Borjas
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Immigration.html


There are other studies with different results

Also using debt doesn't seem to be reasonable, given that it does not matter. What woul be interesting would be to see aside by side comparison of gdp/debt generated.

1. Doesn't matter, they are still a burden on the infrastructure, the SS argument is actually a pro argument why not to make them a legal citizen, every study done shows they would be a larger burden on us then what they give back since most are under educated.
2. I already shown and with a proper study that they sales tax they gross does not offset the cost they net.

There is no mathematical argument that illegal aliens bring more in taxes then they cost, especially over a legal citizen, it doesn't make any sense.


http://www.fairus.org/publications/t...ates-taxpayers


With many state budgets in deficit, policymakers have an obligation to look for ways to reduce the fiscal burden of illegal migration. California, facing a budget deficit of $14.4 billion in 2010-2011, is hit with an estimated $21.8 billion in annual expenditures on illegal aliens. New York’s $6.8 billion deficit is smaller than its $9.5 billion in yearly illegal alien costs.

The report examines the likely consequences if an amnesty for the illegal alien population were adopted similar to the one adopted in 1986. The report notes that while tax collections from the illegal alien population would likely increase only marginally, the new legal status would make them eligible for receiving Social Security retirement benefits that would further jeopardize the future of the already shaky system. An amnesty would also result in this large population of illegal aliens becoming eligible for numerous social assistance programs available for low-income populations for which they are not now eligible. The overall result would, therefore, be an accentuation of the already enormous fiscal burden.

[Egregious]

I don't understand what the issue is with wanting people to emigrate from their country to this country legally.

I don't have any great love or hate for illegal immigrants, and I am capable of giving a shit about multiple issues America faces simultaneously, but I'm not much a fan of the idea that people can just waltz across our boarder with near-impunity. Not only that, but to have have a bunch of bleeding-hearts stand up for them saying, "They don't really do anything that badly impacts our economy, plus there are a ton of benefits they provide. Also it would be financially ruinous to attempt to deport them all, so don't even get started on that subject" by way of excusing their status in our country. It's essentially saying, why don't we just open the doors and let anyone in?

If you want to come to America, come to America by all legal means.

[Bollocks]

1. Doesn't matter, they are still a burden on the infrastructure, the SS argument is actually a pro argument why not to make them a legal citizen, every study done shows they would be a larger burden on us then what they give back since most are under educated.
2. I already shown and with a proper study that they sales tax they gross does not offset the cost they net.

There is no mathematical argument that illegal aliens bring more in taxes then they cost, especially over a legal citizen, it doesn't make any sense.

Borjas refers to the effects on the economy outside of taxes. Borjas is the most respected anti illegal immigrant economist out there is (which surprises me that Trump did not chose him) and by his own admission they generate a net benefit of 22 billion dollars. Which you can make the argument is insignificant or that this is not distributed equally across states like Borjas did, but they are not a drain in the federal budget at a national level.

[Gorgodeus]

Right, cause these figures don't count boarder jumpers that pop a squat and squeeze out an anchor baby. The 14th amendment doesn't guarantee citizenship to the children of illegals and SCOTUS hasn't ruled on this issue. Notice I said illegals and not aliens legally in the US.

Drop a baby, then collect the benefits for that kid and be protected from deportation. Only Canada has this asinine law, and lucky for them the US creates a nice buffer and is a better destination.

Legislate everify, deport illegals and their children, and punish people who hire them. That solves the problem. When one party doesn't even want illegals to learn English before being granted citizenship, we've entered the Twilight Zone.

It accounts for all illegal aliens. You just don't like when someone posts proof that the numbers have been declining.

And btw, they are as many illegal immigrants in the US from other countries as there are from Mexico. Something that most people that are up in arms about illegals never seem to talk about. It is only when they are from south of the border that it seems to be an issue.

The 14th Amendment does not deny those chidren citizenship either. In fact, in very plain English it states that all persons born in the US are US citizens. Anything other than that is simply politics.

[zenkai]

Borjas refers to the effects on the economy outside of taxes. Borjas is the most respected anti illegal immigrant economist out there is (which surprises me that Trump did not chose him) and by his own admission they generate a net benefit of 22 billion dollars. Which you can make the argument is insignificant or that this is not distributed equally across states like Borjas did, but they are not a drain in the federal budget at a national level.

From your own source.

Importing unskilled workers helps fill menial jobs at low wages, but these immigrants also impose substantial costs, mainly by being disproportionately on welfare

There are around ninety million native households in the United States, which puts the national fiscal burden somewhere between $18 billion and $24 billion per year. In the short run, therefore, there is little support for the argument that immigration is a great boon for the country.


The simple truth is, the people that benefit from illegal immigration are the people who hire and exploit them.

[Bollocks]

From your own source.

Importing unskilled workers helps fill menial jobs at low wages, but these immigrants also impose substantial costs, mainly by being disproportionately on welfare

There are around ninety million native households in the United States, which puts the national fiscal burden somewhere between $18 billion and $24 billion per year. In the short run, therefore, there is little support for the argument that immigration is a great boon for the country.


The simple truth is, the people that benefit from illegal immigration are the people who hire and exploit them.

I'm using Borjas not as my main support, but to show you that even the most ardent oppositor to immigration admits that they are not a drain in the federal budget. However its nice that you mentioned Borjas now these are other studies that correct Borjas on his statements.

http://davidcard.berkeley.edu/papers/jeea2012.pdf
A critique towards Borjas on his main arguments in which he bases his conclusions on, that Immigrants drive down wages and has negative impacts on the labour market thus negatively affecting the economy.

And Ottaviano that shows that both illegal/low skill and legal/high skill immigrants have a positive effects on american wages.
http://www.nber.org/papers/w14188

[Cthulhu 2020]

Alabama already tried a zero tolerance for illegals law. It failed big time.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...297_story.html

Short version:

1. The jobs vacated by the illegals were not filled by Americans. Americans were not willing to do the work the illegals were doing. When they brought prisoners in to do the work that needed doing, the prisoners slacked off because even they didn't want to do the work.

2. Because the law was so harsh, many legal immigrants were being harassed by both citizens who thought it was their duty to demand immigration papers from latino looking people, and police constantly checking people, which drove many legal immigrants out of the state.

3. Republicans very quietly repealed this law because it was such a disaster and devastated Alabama's economy, and it's still recovering.

4. Overall, illegals have very very very little effect on wages, if any at all. They cost the country some money, but they also pay taxes. Their net contribution/cost is close to zero.


You want to talk about wage suppression? Let's look at the H1-B program, where people from other countries are brought over here on work visas to take the jobs of white collar workers at 1/2 to 1/3 the pay. Trump supports this program, and so do many of his bleating little sheep, because they're "legal" immigrants. However H1-B has been shown to be an enormous factor in wage suppression among white collar jobs. Alleged (why won't he release his tax returns?) billionaire Trump loves H1-B because it saves him money. And of course Trump doesn't really want to talk about H1-B. He wants to keep your attention squarely on those durn illegals. They need to go cause they're... illegal! Yeah! Illegal is bad! Because reasons!