[Feral] Legion Discussion

[Tradu]

Of course you will be able to. +15 is nothing but a gear check.

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Already very useful for a good number of encounters:

Nightmare

Il'gynoth (help melee stay inside the heart phase as long as possible)
Elerethe (raid stacks up for feeding time)
Cenarius (really just helping your melee get to adds, nbd)

Nighthold

Chromatic Anomaly (huge for getting melee to the add quickly)
Aluriel (Huge for managing the arcane phase)
Krosus (help melee get off the bridge section that is about to break)

I think a lot of people have some serious rose tinted glasses with Stamp roar. The only fight in hfc where a rotation was "needed" and the range reduction hurts is Archimonde.

Stamp roar at 30 yards isn't going to magically make feral a must pick for progression,

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Eh, feral is the superior bleed spec with exsanguinate getting nerfed.

Their artifact ability sucks while ours does some pretty hefty burst damage.

The only artifact trait they have that I would consider "better" is Blood of the Assassinated compared to Ashamane's Bite. But that is only because it has a better design, not because it is more impactful.

Notice how you mention melee a lot when talking about when it's useful. Those are the people that already have sprints themselves, making it noticeably less useful. Now of course Stampeding Roar isn't completely useless, but it's certainly less powerful than in WoD, and Guardian gets a better version of it for seemingly no reason(although they do give up a talent row to do so)

[Lucrece]

With the influx of demonhunters, monks, rogues, and warriors to monopolize melee, they all have a metric ton of snap mobility which makes stampeding roar obsolete anyways.

Fel rush every 10 seconds on top of vengeful retreat. Doubt monk with 2 chi torpedo, transcendence, and flying serpent kick will be short on mobility buttons at any point in time. Warriors easy mode it with heroic leap and charge. Rogues will either shadowstep, grappling hook, or shadowstrike away.

DK's who blew up wraith walk are the only ones standing to benefit somewhat.

Stampeding Roar was mostly there to help balance druids, shadowpriests, and healers. Warlocks had their gateways and mages had their blink.

[Gemini Soul]

Still no changes to talents or the artifact since the dmg shift, getting to the point where i doubt they will adjust anything till weeks after raids open up

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Still no changes to talents or the artifact since the dmg shift, getting to the point where i doubt they will adjust anything till weeks after raids open up.

[dennisdkramer]

Still no changes to talents or the artifact since the dmg shift, getting to the point where i doubt they will adjust anything till weeks after raids open up

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Still no changes to talents or the artifact since the dmg shift, getting to the point where i doubt they will adjust anything till weeks after raids open up.

Whats funny is

SR/JW/BT 201,111 DPS http://beta.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...db8eee751fd22d
SR/ST/BT 200,094 DPS http://beta.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...0e78fff3e9d5c1

granted its early, but with these we can see gear, stats, APL etc.

Link to the sim it self http://beta.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/run

This doesn't seem that strange to me. Has the consensus here been that JW must be the best PvE talent? I really don't think it's supposed to be. SR/BT/JW all together makes no sense, its totally awkward, you just dont have enough energy for everything(at low haste/bad gear). It would be so shitty if they made it significantly better dps

[Gemini Soul]

This doesn't seem that strange to me. Has the consensus here been that JW must be the best PvE talent? I really don't think it's supposed to be. SR/BT/JW all together makes no sense, its totally awkward, you just dont have enough energy for everything(at low haste/bad gear). It would be so shitty if they made it significantly better dps

What is also funny is how SR/JW/MoC is sim'ing higher than SR/JW/BT

Another series of sims i ran all done with the same gear, the stats are are43%crit 44%mastery 9%haste

SR/JW/BT 184,282 DPS Rotation:KynFeralSimComp http://beta.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...e80016edcfd185
SR/JW/BT 195,384 DPS Rotation:Template http://beta.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...537d70805164d5
SR/JW/MoC 195,434 DPS Rotation:KynFeralSimComp http://beta.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...1cf49f294cdda0
SR/JW/MoC 209,079 DPS Rotation:Template http://beta.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...4adbd3c5673fe1


Looks like the increase is from MoC giving us more resources to use that helps with SR/Rip uptime as well as giving us a lot more shreds/bites, haven't gone thru and seen if the sim is using the up

[Kraineth]

What is also funny is how SR/JW/MoC is sim'ing higher than SR/JW/BT

Another series of sims i ran all done with the same gear, the stats are are43%crit 44%mastery 9%haste

SR/JW/BT 184,282 DPS Rotation:KynFeralSimComp http://beta.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...e80016edcfd185
SR/JW/BT 195,384 DPS Rotation:Template http://beta.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...537d70805164d5
SR/JW/MoC 195,434 DPS Rotation:KynFeralSimComp http://beta.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...1cf49f294cdda0
SR/JW/MoC 209,079 DPS Rotation:Template http://beta.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...4adbd3c5673fe1


Looks like the increase is from MoC giving us more resources to use that helps with SR/Rip uptime as well as giving us a lot more shreds/bites, haven't gone thru and seen if the sim is using the up

Dude........



The uptimes.........

This sim is useless, completely innacurate

[Tradu]

What is also funny is how SR/JW/MoC is sim'ing higher than SR/JW/BT

Another series of sims i ran all done with the same gear, the stats are are43%crit 44%mastery 9%haste

SR/JW/BT 184,282 DPS Rotation:KynFeralSimComp http://beta.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...e80016edcfd185
SR/JW/BT 195,384 DPS Rotation:Template http://beta.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...537d70805164d5
SR/JW/MoC 195,434 DPS Rotation:KynFeralSimComp http://beta.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...1cf49f294cdda0
SR/JW/MoC 209,079 DPS Rotation:Template http://beta.askmrrobot.com/wow/simul...4adbd3c5673fe1


Looks like the increase is from MoC giving us more resources to use that helps with SR/Rip uptime as well as giving us a lot more shreds/bites, haven't gone thru and seen if the sim is using the up

There's a few problems with those sims. The APL is very clearly not optimized in any way, considering the DoT/SR uptimes(which you can maintain at significantly higher at that gear level), they assume a completely maxed artifact(which you won't have for the first approximately half a year of the expansion) and... use Healing Touch relics?
Basically these sims are completely inaccurate and should not be considered at all.

To give an example of how bad the uptimes are, I just went on my level 100 premade druid with nothing in its artifact other than the ability+the perk from the first quest(Shred damage) and kept up SR/Rake/Rip up at 90%+ uptime(probably more like 95%), so with a maxed artifact and pretty good level 110 gear, the uptimes should not be anywhere near as low as they are in those sims. Note, I did not get a single Bite in, because Rip/SR uptimes are more important.

[Tellof]

There's a few problems with those sims. The APL is very clearly not optimized in any way, considering the DoT/SR uptimes(which you can maintain at significantly higher at that gear level), they assume a completely maxed artifact(which you won't have for the first approximately half a year of the expansion) and... use Healing Touch relics?
Basically these sims are completely inaccurate and should not be considered at all.

To give an example of how bad the uptimes are, I just went on my level 100 premade druid with nothing in its artifact other than the ability+the perk from the first quest(Shred damage) and kept up SR/Rake/Rip up at 90%+ uptime(probably more like 95%), so with a maxed artifact and pretty good level 110 gear, the uptimes should not be anywhere near as low as they are in those sims. Note, I did not get a single Bite in, because Rip/SR uptimes are more important.

Healing Touch relics are used on purpose because they do not favor one damage source over the other when comparing raw talents against each other. Otherwise you could skew the results in any direction you want.

[Tradu]

Healing Touch relics are used on purpose because they do not favor one damage source over the other when comparing raw talents against each other. Otherwise you could skew the results in any direction you want.

You mean skew them by using the appropriate relic for the build, like you would in the "real world"?

Did another test on a level 110 PvP premade(so even lower crit% than the level 100 premade, but maxed artifact), also no real issues maintaining Rip/Rake/SR with the same talent build as before.

EDIT: Did a final test, naked at 110 apart from the maxed artifact(no relics cos PvP premade), still 95%+ SR and 90%+ Rip/Rake, so please disregard the sims, the APL is clearly very wrong(most likely Biting way too agressively)

[Shadow Fox]

Dude........



The uptimes.........

This sim is useless, completely innacurate

AMR, Noxxic, and IcyVeins all seem to be in really hellish states at the moment fill with incomplete data, partial false data, and use Player Characters names and social links without their permissions... Sooo...

I have never really found any of the 3 to be correct. They seem to generalise the players who come to their websites are "LFG/LFR Heroes". At least for Draenor, and so far with Legion. Can't say what it was like for Pandaria or prior for any of those (If they even existed?).

[teddabear]

MoC is a terrible talent anyway. It doesn't make sense to for Blizzard to admit that the T18 bonus was terrible and then implement it as a T100 talent.

Brutal Slash so is so undertuned it's hard to even find parses where Ferals take it.

[Tradu]

MoC is a terrible talent anyway. It doesn't make sense to for Blizzard to admit that the T18 bonus was terrible and then implement it as a T100 talent.

Brutal Slash so is so undertuned it's hard to even find parses where Ferals take it.

No, the problem with Brutal Slash in HFC is that it's been on farm for like a year for a lot of guilds, meaning they massively overgear it(also 50% health nerf), so adds melt instantly, so the Ferals just go BT and leave the adds to the locks etc. Brutal Slash is what you'd pick on progress for something like imp damage on Mannoroth, Hand damage on Kormrok etc.

Agreed on MoC, though. Was also pretty... surprised when the hotfixes to fix haste basically made the HFC set bonuses baseline on top of MoC existing as a talent, even though the devs have specifically said they agree the HFC class trinket+set pretty much went straight against what Feral was supposed to be.

[Zoopercat]

@Tradu We'll take a look at the APL for that uptime. As for the default profile, those are built for testing. If you choose relics, they will start to favor certain abilities and make them look stronger, when it might turn out a different ability is better once you get a different relic. Since theory is still being developed, our test profiles go with relics that don't affect those abilities so you can filter out biases. Same with using trinkets without special procs.

Keep in mind, the gear can be changed in about 10 seconds, and we encourage people to do that while you play around with simulations
@shadow-fox The Mr. Robot optimizer is in a 'best-guess' mode for the pre-patch, as is true with guides, etc, etc for pre-patch. The simulator mechanics are looking really solid, with a few specs (like feral) needing another round of APL improvements. This is similar to SimC's current state of affairs as well. As far as the permissions thing, not sure what you mean, at least for AMR.

Reminder: the feral APL states, on those reports, that it isn't finished and shouldn't be used for analysis.

[Deleted]

What is also funny is how SR/JW/MoC is sim'ing higher than SR/JW/BT

Another series of sims i ran all done with the same gear, the stats are are43%crit 44%mastery 9%haste

SR/JW/BT 184,282 DPS Rotation:KynFeralSimComp
SR/JW/BT 195,384 DPS Rotation:Template
SR/JW/MoC 195,434 DPS Rotation:KynFeralSimComp
SR/JW/MoC 209,079 DPS Rotation:Template


Looks like the increase is from MoC giving us more resources to use that helps with SR/Rip uptime as well as giving us a lot more shreds/bites, haven't gone thru and seen if the sim is using the up

These sims are LITTERALLY worse than useless. Please delete this post as it is nothing but pure misinformation. It provides no useful information to anyone and it will provide terrible information to anyone who is earnestly seeking information. Its absolutely awful. Please do a bit more testing than blindly running a sim next time. This is why the simcraft guys spend so much time working on their APLs. Jesus H Christ. For fucks sake people. Get your shit together

Brutal Slash so is so undertuned it's hard to even find parses where Ferals take it.

As a side note. Brutal slash isn't undertuned in relevant content. Its a very nice chunk of burst aoe.

[Zoopercat]

Talked with @Guiltyas a bit. I really should have clarified - the feral rotation is a template and has caution tape across the top to let people know it is unfinished! So yeah, feral's APL is one of the last classes that needs some APL love. Most everyone else is is really good shape, and when they are, you won't see that caution tape, fyi

Keep an eye out for a DEFAULT rotation for feral in a day or two. It will replace the TEMPLATE after we work on it some more.

[Dubalazi]

Hey im looking to switch from Balance to Feral since my chicken feels really boring atm , are there any guides/blogs etc where i can look up stuff for ferals in Legion?

[teddabear]

As a side note. Brutal slash isn't undertuned in relevant content. Its a very nice chunk of burst aoe.

I'd agree there isn't a lot of data on Brutal Slash but what data is available seems to indicate it isn't very good. The lack of data would also seem to indicate it isn't very good.

Which bosses in Legion have you had good experiences with Brutal Slash?

[Lucrece]

Hey im looking to switch from Balance to Feral since my chicken feels really boring atm , are there any guides/blogs etc where i can look up stuff for ferals in Legion?

Hopefully Pawketz keeps up with his feral projects, but he switched to Demonhunter as far as I'm aware.

[Kraineth]

I'd agree there isn't a lot of data on Brutal Slash but what data is available seems to indicate it isn't very good. The lack of data would also seem to indicate it isn't very good.

Which bosses in Legion have you had good experiences with Brutal Slash?

You have presented no valid arguement for brutal slash not being good. Nobody cares about

Go take a look at Skorpyron and Chromatic anomaly if you want to see fights that are near perfect for the talent.

If you want to be a shameless padder Il'gynoth and Elerethe in EM are good as well.

[teddabear]

You have presented no valid arguement for brutal slash not being good. Nobody cares about

Go take a look at Skorpyron and Chromatic anomaly if you want to see fights that are near perfect for the talent.

If you want to be a shameless padder Il'gynoth and Elerethe in EM are good as well.

There seems to be a lack of Feral parses using Brutal Slash since the July 17 nerf, even on those fights.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ral&keystone=0
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ral&keystone=0
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ral&keystone=0
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ral&keystone=0

If those fights are perfect for Brutal Slash I would think people would take it on those fights.