Nighthold is coming out in early 2017

[Super Kami Dende]

I do enjoy how people rush to MMO-C to complain about things they lack the actual comprehension to understand.

It really shows what people on this website you can completely disregard.

EN in September, than 4 months to get through Heroic/Mythic, get my Mythic +'s underway, get my Artifact going well and then have NH drop in January? Sounds like fucking smart timing to me. Might even be too soon still even at 4 months.

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Yeah, I agree with this. The "intro" raid has never really made sense to me since they started them in MoP, its always felt like it would just be better to either have them as a "tier 0" with a 2-3 piece set or as a split raid tier similar to TBC and Cata. The weird thing about EN vs MSV and HM is that those raids had their own cosmetics. EN shares t19 cosmetics, so it'll be kinda jarring to hop into NH 4 months later where you're collecting gear that looks identical.

wait.. how is having similar looking gear jarring when it is the same Raid Tier.

[Deleted]

Just saw the latest interview and when asked about the upcoming tiers, Ion just dodged that question. So i guess the 3 "tier" dream might not happen after all and instead it's going to be WoD 2.0

[nazrakin]

They're not making 2 tiers of gear because they already have before, and it lead to the number bloat that had to be corrected.

Tier 9 wasn't supposed to happen, and as a result ICC's T10 and RS gear was astronomically better than Tier 7.

2 tiers would be a lot of work for them down the road.

EN is already behind NH in terms of ilvls, so relative power levels wouldn't have to change. The "intro" raid could still be a half tier, which is why I suggested it only have a 2-3 piece set.

wait.. how is having similar looking gear jarring when it is the same Raid Tier.

Its not similar, its identical. The statement "its the same raid tier" also deserves a giant asterisks since this isnt the same raid tier in the way that BWD/BoT or Hyjal/Bt were the same. This is "the same raid tier" except one of the raids has no sets, comes out 3.5-4 months ahead of the other, and has much lower ilvl so no one will really bother with it once Nighthold is released.

So yes, I do think that it'll feel weird to raid EN for months and then abandon it for NH to earn gear that looks exactly the same.

[shanthi]

That was before they put out the new info. Read the main page. 7.1 will have a small raid. The point of the small raid was to give some content before nighthold is released(blizz words, not mine). You're stupid if you think they will both be 7.1

Here, read carefully

"Patch 7.1 has three major pieces: Karazhan, a small raid, and additional quests in Suramar."

and more quotes

"Fatboss: With the 7.1 raid, will it be slotting in between Nightmare and Nighthold?

Ion: Yes that is correct. Nighthold we see as an early 2017 raid. We felt that Foundry in WOD came out too soon after Highmaul for many of the players. We wanted to put a bit more space in between the raid tiers, so to cover that time slot we wanted to add a small raid in between there."

and

"Fatboss: Can you give a brief overview of patch 7.1?

Ion: 3 major pieces, first and foremost return to Karazhan as a mega 5 player dungeon - almost 5 player raid. Next is a small raid tied to Stormheim as well as additional chapters of Surumas - nightfallen etc. We'll see more after Legion launches. The content we've seen so far is the "tip of the iceberg", we're working on much more content. With the introduction of Mythic+ dungeons, dungeons will stay relevant throughout of the expansion."

Do you see nighthold written above? No? Common sense, use it.

Uh, I hope you're kidding. Nighthold is part of the release content, they're simply staggering it. I know this is a hard concept to grasp, but just because Nighthold releases later doesn't mean it belongs to a different patch. It was tested on beta alongside all the other base Legion content. It's 7.0 content, but they're purposely spacing it out. Maybe it's an oddity that some 7.0 content won't be accessible until after some 7.1 content, but the overall logic makes plenty of sense--staggering content so that some isn't wasted (Emerald Nightmare) by sitting alongside higher difficulty/higher reward content (Nighthold).

[Krazzorx]

I'm assuming they do this "intro raid" as a way to ease players into raiding on their revamped classes. So they can make EN mechanically easier and NH a standard raid difficulty.

[Video Games]

I do enjoy how people rush to MMO-C to complain about things they lack the actual comprehension to understand.

It really shows what people on this website you can completely disregard.

EN in September, than 4 months to get through Heroic/Mythic, get my Mythic +'s underway, get my Artifact going well and then have NH drop in January? Sounds like fucking smart timing to me. Might even be too soon still even at 4 months.

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wait.. how is having similar looking gear jarring when it is the same Raid Tier.

Or you know, blizzard could have told us their plans months ago instead of leaving us all in the dark. Which, by the way, they won't even do till that blog which might not even answer our questions. We're fucking a week and a half away from launch and there is THIS much confusion because they haven't told us jack shit.

[rebecca191]

They're not making 2 tiers of gear because they already have before, and it lead to the number bloat that had to be corrected.

Tier 9 wasn't supposed to happen, and as a result ICC's T10 and RS gear was astronomically better than Tier 7.

2 tiers would be a lot of work for them down the road.

I don't think it matters what they do at this point, unless they feel the game can be upgraded to handle larger numbers than it could a couple of years ago, there is going to be another squish after Legion. Health already increased an absurd amount just from leveling.

[masterhorus8]

Or you know, blizzard could have told us their plans months ago instead of leaving us all in the dark. Which, by the way, they won't even do till that blog which might not even answer our questions. We're fucking a week and a half away from launch and there is THIS much confusion because they haven't told us jack shit.

Entitlement much? They pretty much never tell us what's in the X.1 patch this early.

[ttylol]

Releasing an Expansion with no Raids in August 2016, then adding the first batch one after the other until "Early 2017" is not inherently more content than say, Cataclysm with 3 Raids at Launch.

But the way they portrayed it, "This time around there won't be a content drought. Don't worry, we got you!" - MMOC Frontpage, is misleading because the total amount of content is roughly the same´.

That's my problem with it. Cata's raid layout at launch only hurt the uber-hardcore (Method even made a documentary about how tiring it was to race for months), yet we're all affected by the "fix". People are focusing on WoD's staggering, which only caused problems because of the item level increase within the same tier. Without staggered unlocks, item levels would only vary between normal/hard/mythic.

[Super Kami Dende]

Or you know, blizzard could have told us their plans months ago instead of leaving us all in the dark. Which, by the way, they won't even do till that blog which might not even answer our questions. We're fucking a week and a half away from launch and there is THIS much confusion because they haven't told us jack shit.

They did tell everyone these plans months ago, nearly years ago. When they originally dropped BRF and HM became obsolete they said pretty much straight away it was way too close together for what they wanted. Anyone that expected EN and NH to drop at the same time after the way testing had been done in Beta.. well ...Bad luck?

As I said in my original post. "lack the actual comprehension to understand."

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This is "the same raid tier" except one of the raids has no sets, comes out 3.5-4 months ahead of the other, and has much lower ilvl so no one will really bother with it once Nighthold is released.

The base ilvls aren't that far apart and with the new system where any piece of gear can titanforge up to the next tier anyway, it makes your point much less relevant.

[stomination]

While I am dissapointed that they are delaying nighthold and putting this Stormheim raid in between, I will save my thoughts until I see the Stormheim raid and if it will be enough to hold my guild over.

well its better than when BRF came out and basically killed any use of highmaul.

[nazrakin]

The base ilvls aren't that far apart and with the new system where any piece of gear can titanforge up to the next tier anyway, it makes your point much less relevant.

A sub 1% chance of getting a big titanforge proc does not make my point any less relevant. Calling it "the same raid tier" is whats irrelevant, today Blizzard itself even mocked the concept of "raid tiers" as just a subjective thing with no real definition. What matters is that the ilvls are far enough apart that Blizzard isnt willing to launch Nighthold at the same time. They expect players to migrate away from EN as soon as NH is available, just as they do any time there is a new raid with better ilvls and set bonuses available. The difference is that this time that migration does not distinguish itself cosmetically, unlike even HM or MSV -- which is why I said that it may be a bit jarring.

[kamuimac]

Uh, I hope you're kidding. Nighthold is part of the release content, they're simply staggering it. .

people are not discussing whther they are stagering it or not - people just dont want to hear in a year and half "why are you compaining we given you 3 raid tiers its not our fult you thought it was 2 tiers just "staggered" "

[Deleted]

there is nothing to go in order - they literaly said that they want to put in something between raid tiers making EM tier 19 and nighthold t20 with stormheim raid in between then in 7.1

Actually he said stop thinking about raids as raid tiers. Just think of them as one long progression

[shanthi]

people are not discussing whther they are stagering it or not - people just dont want to hear in a year and half "why are you compaining we given you 3 raid tiers its not our fult you thought it was 2 tiers just "staggered" "

Yes, and? You conveniently cut out the rest of my post--which is that Nighthold is part of 7.0 and the first tier. So it has nothing to do with cheating us out of a tier. The person I was responding to was claiming that because Nighthold was staggered to come out after the 7.1 "small raid" that that made Nighthold the second tier and part of 7.2, which is just blatantly wrong. It's part of 7.0's content and the first tier (for god's sake, it awards the first tier set--how much more obvious can it get?), the ability for players to access it just comes later.

[Kakera]

Yes, and? You conveniently cut out the rest of my post--which is that Nighthold is part of 7.0 and the first tier. So it has nothing to do with cheating us out of a tier. The person I was responding to was claiming that because Nighthold was staggered to come out after the 7.1 "small raid" that that made Nighthold the second tier and part of 7.2, which is just blatantly wrong. It's part of 7.0's content and the first tier (for god's sake, it awards the first tier set--how much more obvious can it get?), the ability for players to access it just comes later.

What I hear: waaaaaah waaaaaaah

What you'll be doing in a few weeks when you realize how ridiculous you sounded: Playing the game and enjoying yourself. I hope to god anyway because holy shit what you're doing right now can't be fun.

[Deleted]

Actually he said stop thinking about raids as raid tiers. Just think of them as one long progression

TLDR; "We promised you 3 TIERS for Legion instead of what we did for WoD, but since we like to cut content, you are getting a "small" stormheim raid instead of a full tier."

7.0 EN
7.1 "small raid"
7.2 Nighthold
7.3 no raid
7.4 last raid

[apelsinjuice]

I mean right now in the dungeon journal EN HC rewards 865+ loot and NH HC 890+, its a pretty big gap between them for be in the same tier if you compare to Highmaul/BRF that was 670/685. If NH wont come out until January, and I quoute "Raid tiers should last around 4 to 5 months." + the Addition of a small raid in 7.1 almost points to NH being its own tier released in 7.2.

Hope this is not the case, would really suck but you never know with Blizzard.

[Video Games]

Entitlement much? They pretty much never tell us what's in the X.1 patch this early.

When did I even say anything about a patch? Stop with this shit ass argument of entitlement.

They did tell everyone these plans months ago, nearly years ago. When they originally dropped BRF and HM became obsolete they said pretty much straight away it was way too close together for what they wanted. Anyone that expected EN and NH to drop at the same time after the way testing had been done in Beta.. well ...Bad luck?

As I said in my original post. "lack the actual comprehension to understand."

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The base ilvls aren't that far apart and with the new system where any piece of gear can titanforge up to the next tier anyway, it makes your point much less relevant.

All they said is what they want to do. They could have told us dates, and they still haven't a week before launch causing threads like these to be made and most people are confused. Do you not understand how skeptical people are with how bad wod was?

[grexly75]

I mean right now in the dungeon journal EN HC rewards 865+ loot and NH HC 890+, its a pretty big gap between them for be in the same tier if you compare to Highmaul/BRF that was 670/685. If NH wont come out until January, and I quoute "Raid tiers should last around 4 to 5 months." + the Addition of a small raid in 7.1 almost points to NH being its own tier released in 7.2.

Hope this is not the case, would really suck but you never know with Blizzard.

Well we will find out in the next few days what the raid release schedule will be from Blizz themselves as so far all I am seeing is rumor and speculation with nothing solid to prove either way what is actually happening..