Addons won't be able to access player position in 7.1

[Irefusetodie]

I see an addon displaying numbers, to which they line up on

what is your point?

An addon displaying numbers is perfectly fine. Having an addon show you exactly where to stand makes whatever mechanic you're dealing with completely trivial. This is a great change so long as they make mechanics like Demonic Feedback manageable without a range indicator.

[Ashkiman]

Dangerous. Just one more step closer to not allowing any addons to run.

Blizzard is becoming like Apple. Play the way we want you to play.

A single feature from some addons being removed is getting one step closer to "not allowing any addon to run"?

[Sliske]

I vaguely remember them fixing something like this a few years ago.
Does anyone remember what that add-on was? It made fights and abilities too easy.

AVR

10 char

[Deleted]

I vaguely remember them fixing something like this a few years ago.
Does anyone remember what that add-on was? It made fights and abilities too easy.

It was called AVR https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nud7rKyLtbA

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A single feature from some addons being removed is getting one step closer to "not allowing any addon to run"?

A single feature in raids and dungeons. The feature still works in the world (TomTom etc)

[Kaustos]

Does competitive instances include arenas and battlegrounds? Or are we still not going to care about infinite range on the target nameplate, seeing everyone through walls at 60yds and being able to target everyone on the enemy team with an enemy raid frame set? Going to disable friendly map blips in bgs? Break healer frames with arrow pointers? Or are we only worried about making the rare brutal mechanics like archi lasers where a variance of 3yds kills you even harder and making melee life worse?

I'm a big proponent of removing things from the UI when it can be done in the 3d world, but all this is going to do is make it harder for me as a raid leader to tell who is fucking up constantly being in the wrong spot. No radar or arrows just means I'll be hearing 'well it looked like I was plenty far away' because *looks* is all we'll have to go by.

The Kromog addon wasn't necessary at all. There was plenty of time to claim a spot and the piles were randomized anyway. Kormrok addon just saves time, if we cant use arrows to point to spots, we'll just be using all the world markers, guild banners, smoke flares or whatevers handy to claim a spot. If they're referring to the radar for grasping hands, then how about fucking off with 'stack and spread exactly 3 yards or die' as a mechanic. We can look back at a fight like Paragons of the Klaxxi to see similar yet better mechanics that make you look at the world and not the UI.

A few shitty mechanics is not worth removing the diagnostics value of player position api and serves only to mask poor players and make raid leaders jobs more tedious. They already make so many of the bomb mechanics spell source and destination look as if they come from the boss itself (like trying to figure out who exploded on Zakuun in the raid). No more replays to see who dropped the pool in front of gorefiend, who didn't move out with whatever bomb, so much new deniability for bad players.

If the desire is truly to make addons less potent, disable addons from setting raid icons and get rid of world markers. Don't apply any visible auras for bombs like mark of the legion or wrath of guldan. If you don't want range radars, fuck off with 1-2yds variance in position causing a death.

[Deleted]

I mean I get why they might want to remove the ability for addons to tell you exactly where to stand (I'd dispute that's what the dBm radar does), but this is a huge change as we have this available to us for so long.

It wouldn't be as bad if there was any way in the default UI to measure distances other than casting a spell and guessing.

Also for what it is worth, I don't think removing radars makes the game harder, purer, more skilled or whatever nonsense you want to come up with, I think it just makes the game more annoying, which I don't think is good.

[shaunika123]

then again, doesnt this sort of limit raid mechanics?

there's already a lot less people killing archimonde than garrosh for example, and without addons not even half of them would do it.

if they keep designing ridiculously tight mechanics where you have to stand exactly 8yards apart in a tiny space then there's gonna be like 20 guilds that kill it in a realistic amount of time :P

[Jimusmc]

they'll revert it when players start complaining and unsubbing

[Aeula]

Getting this sinking feeling that we'll be seeing a repeat of cataclysm as far as difficulty is concerned. Having joined in that expansion I still have bad memories of my first heroic dungeons ._.

[Wewlad]

You'd love GW2, where you target a boss and nuke it for 3 minutes until it falls over, not caring at all whether you die, do decent dmg or avoid any ability. The biggest challenge for those bosses is getting to them before they die.

See: Doom Lord Kazzak.

Didn't say I disliked the idea of mechanics in general, but they should feel natural and not so contrived. Most of the time I just view the bosses as complete retards because of how their mechanics are apparently designed to make them look stupid in a fight.

[Auxora]

I don't think it's too much of a big deal, the timers are more essential than an arrow telling where to go in a few places. The arrows in DBM were only on a handful of encounters, and none of them were absolutely required. A pop-up saying to run Bloods should be plenty for most people without also an arrow telling people where to run for example. I'd hope most people know where to go already and/or the spot can be marked by the raid leader before the fight starts. I don't think it's too much to expect even of casual raiders to have to know where to go or stand in certain phases, especially when they can be marked.

For Blizz it's more of a tuning thing, since from their perspective they tune the fights in terms of difficulty assuming everyone is running DBM. And if DBM starts to creep into the old AVR territory it just means having to tune the fights to be even harder to get to where Blizz wants them to be difficulty wise. And in the end difficulty=time (for most guilds and raid teams, not talking about the top 1%). So they need to make sure they are tough enough to keep people entertained and challenged for awhile, and not everyone including casuals clearing new raids the first week each wing opens. If so that just builds on people being bored and saying there isn't anything to do, and eventually not playing at all.

[Thoughtful Trolli]

As long as they don't expect 20 people to spread exactly 8 yards in a tiny room then cool whatever.

Nope. Pretty sure they'll never get rid of this. And let's not forget that when you're not doing this, 18 people must be in 5 yards of each other while 2 non-tanks have to move exactly over there.

[Ashkiman]

Didn't say I disliked the idea of mechanics in general, but they should feel natural and not so contrived. Most of the time I just view the bosses as complete retards because of how their mechanics are apparently designed to make them look stupid in a fight.

Can you please elaborate more on these "natural mechanics" you're talking about?

[Sliske]

Can you please elaborate more on these "natural mechanics" you're talking about?

He basically wants a boss that doesn't just stand and focus tanks 24/7, while chaining mechanics, but also wants it to be hard.

In other words, he wants both his cake and to eat it too.

You cannot have a mechanically hard boss that is 100% random.

Then theres the people that think a boss that hits for half your HP, every 0.5 seconds, and is mathematically impossible without a certain gear level is "hard"

we call these people "morons"

[Wewlad]

Can you please elaborate more on these "natural mechanics" you're talking about?

Off the top of my head, Kael'thas' raid encounter was very well designed as he escalates the threat step-by-step, and killing him is a believable victory.

Contrast Gorefiend in HFC who literally helps you kill him.

[Deleted]

That won't happen, since we are such a small demographic.

Now that you mentioned it, are they trying to remove more and more people from Mythic?, first the 20 man only, now the camera distance, although they changed their minds a little with that, and now this, what is the goal here?, to minimize even more the pool of players for mythic, so they can remove the difficulty?

[Sliske]

Contrast Gorefiend in HFC who literally helps you kill him.

You are joking, right?

Gorefiend has MUCH more HP than the bosses before him, entirely because of his damage taken phase. The damage taken phase is a fun phase all around. DPS get to do big deeps, healers get to do big heals etc.

Its not like you're taking Boss A, and Boss B, giving them both 1m hp, then giving one of them a phase where it takes 100% more dmg. No, the boss with the damage taken increase phase will have 50-100% more hp.

Its an illusion of difference, its making a normally boring boss, fun.

For example, would you rather fight Patchwerk from Naxx, aka, stand there and dps him for 4 minutes doing your normal damage.

OR would you rather dps SUPER PATCHWERK, who gives everyone a buff that increases their dmg by 200% for 5 minutes, allowing you to do crazy numbers?

You'd obviously pick the second, and it would be fun, even though its literally doing the exact same thing.

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Now that you mentioned it, are they trying to remove more and more people from Mythic?, first the 20 man only, now the camera distance, although they changed their minds a little with that, and now this, what is the goal here?, to minimize even more the pool of players for mythic, so they can remove the difficulty?

I think what people don't realize here is that they didn't do this in the middle of a tier, they didn't do it when progress was still happening.

They did it before a raid has even been released.

I.E., it is foolish to assume any raid in nighthold or emerald nightmare will have any mechanic similar to something like archimondes lazers or komrok's runes. Of course it won't be designed like that, it would make no sense, at all, for them to do that. They're doing this probably for two reasons

1. You literally cannot progress Mythic Archimonde without an addon to organize your raid during lazers. Yes, you can come back 14 months later and power house it with 750 raid ilvl and a 30% nerf, but you won't do it week 1, week 2, month 1, month 2, you won't do it at all before you hit the healing and hp threshold that allows you to cheese it.

I'm almost certain Blizzard doesn't want it to be a requirement that you log out of the game, go to a 3rd party website and download an addon just to be able to progress a boss.

2. boss ability bloat. Like it or not (I don't) Blizzard seems to be taking a weird approach to allowing new players into the game. Instead of letting them learn themselves (as literally everyone else did) they are instead bringing the ceiling down. Less abilities is no two ways about it, less mechanically complex.

[Ashkiman]

Off the top of my head, Kael'thas' raid encounter was very well designed as he escalates the threat step-by-step, and killing him is a believable victory.

Contrast Gorefiend in HFC who literally helps you kill him.

Are you seriously expecting logic in a game about demons and orcs and all these stuff? Even if you do, abusing one's weakness in battle is a pretty logical thing; For example Gorefind needs souls to function, he runs out of souls and starts gathering some more, while he's doing that he becomes vulnerable because he's focusing on gathering souls and not on fighting you.

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Now that you mentioned it, are they trying to remove more and more people from Mythic?, first the 20 man only, now the camera distance, although they changed their minds a little with that, and now this, what is the goal here?, to minimize even more the pool of players for mythic, so they can remove the difficulty?

You people seriously need to stop with this conspiracy theories.
Just because blizzard is doing what they feel is best for game, it doesn't mean they're trying to remove people from Mythic.

[Deleted]

I.E., it is foolish to assume any raid in nighthold or emerald nightmare will have any mechanic similar to something like archimondes lazers or komrok's runes. Of course it won't be designed like that, it would make no sense, at all, for them to do that. They're doing this probably for two reasons

1. You literally cannot progress Mythic Archimonde without an addon to organize your raid during lazers. Yes, you can come back 14 months later and power house it with 750 raid ilvl and a 30% nerf, but you won't do it week 1, week 2, month 1, month 2, you won't do it at all before you hit the healing and hp threshold that allows you to cheese it.

I'm almost certain Blizzard doesn't want it to be a requirement that you log out of the game, go to a 3rd party website and download an addon just to be able to progress a boss.

2. boss ability bloat. Like it or not (I don't) Blizzard seems to be taking a weird approach to allowing new players into the game. Instead of letting them learn themselves (as literally everyone else did) they are instead bringing the ceiling down. Less abilities is no two ways about it, less mechanically complex.

the OP of this thread has already explained twice that they are not going to decrease the actual difficulty of the encounters, not even a little bit, because of these camera and addons limitations, some people are gonna be pushed out from mythic difficulty, making a very tiny pool of players even tinier.

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Are you seriously expecting logic in a game about demons and orcs and all these stuff? Even if you do, abusing one's weakness in battle is a pretty logical thing; For example Gorefind needs souls to function, he runs out of souls and starts gathering some more, while he's doing that he becomes vulnerable because he's focusing on gathering souls and not on fighting you.

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You people seriously need to stop with this conspiracy theories.
Just because blizzard is doing what they feel is best for game, it doesn't mean they're trying to remove people from Mythic.

i do not know what they are trying or not trying to do, i am no mind reader, but the effects seem clear to me, a very tiny pool of players is gonna be tinier than before

[markos82]

Instead of making each class more "intuitive" bringing back old talent tree, resistance, hit rating and so on they remove use of addons to make encounters more difficult.. Priceless