New Russian Bill Sets Out 10-Year Prison Term for FGM

[Thrive]

i'm not discussing the pedantics of comparing both procedures; i'm discussing the medical benefits of one of the two procedures.

What reason, exactly? The moment I said that you can replicate the same benfits at a lower cost and not having to chop your dingus, you shifted to "well it was understandable in X time and place".

The medical benefits. They can be reproduced, sure, but it's still a factor. That and religious tradition. It's not just pointless mutilation.

[THE Bigzoman]

The medical benefits. They can be reproduced, sure, but it's still a factor. That and religious tradition. It's not just pointless mutilation.

You don't suddenly have a point for a procedure just because you insert a religious rationale. With that line of reasoning, FGM has a point to because some dumbfuck shaman thinks so.

But you don't arrive at that same conclusion, because clearly there's other things to consider when deeming something as pointless or not pointless.

The alternatives to circumcision are cheaper, are less harmful, and don't border along human rights violations. Something doesn't become a valid "factor" just because it exists.

[Hooked]

That's why bands like Pussy Riot, random reporters who disagree with the general population, and the generally growing amount of neo-nazis continue to happen. Moscow is Russia's tourist capital, it's going to be a walk in the park compared to the rest of it. I'm sorry that you don't like to accept how socially backwards Russia is.

Well maybe we are socially backward since most of the non western world is not in favor of homosexuality. I mean isnt it western privilege, to assume larger countries are backwards. I thought you all were "global citizens" and not american ones. Look at the demographics of the planet, western civilization is gone, its over.

[Deleted]

ussians who practice female genital mutilation (FGM) could face ten years imprisonment under a new bill, the Meduza news website reported Friday.

The bill says that FGM “has no place in a civilized society,” and was presented to parliament by United Russia deputy Maria Maksakova-Igenbergs.

“FGM is mutilation based on sexual discrimination,” said Maksakova-Igenbergs. “Those carrying it out believe that they must do so to protect women from an 'immoral lifestyle.'”

https://themoscowtimes.com/news/russ...tilation-55044

Finally russia does something right after a series of fuckups.

It's just a bill, presented by someone. Nothing says it will be passed.

[Thrive]

You don't suddenly have a point for a procedure just because you insert a religious rationale. With that line of reasoning, FGM has a point to because some dumbfuck shaman thinks so.

But you don't arrive at that same conclusion, because clearly there's other things to consider when deeming something as pointless or not pointless.

The alternatives to circumcision are cheaper, are less harmful, and don't border along human rights violations. Something doesn't become a valid "factor" just because it exists.

It's not a human rights violation because there is no life threatening issue arising from it. I'm not completely in support of circumcision, but there is a point to it regardless of how valid you think it is. No one is becoming sterile because of male circumcision. No one is getting extreme infections. No one is dying. No one is being robbed of sexual feeling. It's just the removal of extra skin, and while I understand the anger some feel about it, it is nowhere near the same and not a crisis or inhumane tradition.
I'd like to know what are your arguments that it is? What is so harmful about it that it needs to be banned from use? You ask me why there is a point, I give you a reason why. You may not like the reason but I do, and then you refute by saying you don't like the reason I gave you. Well then tell me why its inhumane.

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Well maybe we are socially backward since most of the non western world is not in favor of homosexuality. I mean isnt it western privilege, to assume larger countries are backwards. I thought you all were "global citizens" and not american ones. Look at the demographics of the planet, western civilization is gone, its over.

Western Civilization is too big to disappear. People like to assume because certain demographics and statistics read that there is a rise in another group that the failure of the US or any other world power is imminent. It's not. Western culture, and specifically American Culture, is less about being white than it is about the ideals the country was founded on. That of course being the freedom of an individual to pursue what he or she wants, regardless of whether another thinks its morally right or wrong, so long as he is not directly harming another. That is the basic logic the western world is founded on. So long as people keep moving here in droves for opportunity and that ideology, the culture won't die.
I suppose my wording may be a bit off because generally I believe social changes are circular in nature and that the US itself is likely to see a conservative pushback that will ultimately end with many of these LGBT issues being socially looked down on, but the fact of the matter is that persecuting someone for their sexual preference is ridiculous, and that is what the Russian government does. They hide it behind a law that is easily misused.
And I don't consider myself a global citizen. I've made no attempt to hide my disdain for Russia for example.

[THE Bigzoman]

It's not a human rights violation because there is no life threatening issue arising from it.

Human Rights Defintion per Wikipedia:


The basic rights and freedoms to which all humans are considered to be entitled, often held to include the rights to life, liberty, equality, and a fair trial, freedom from slavery and torture, and freedom of thought and expression.

So no, something doesn't have to be a life threatening issue for it to violate human rights. By definition, it isn't a necessary condition by any means.

The foreskin is the most sensitive part of the penis. To think that this has fuck all to do with sexual pleasure is just plain wrong. You're taking that away from people for no good reason at a time when they're unable to consent to it. That's a human rights violation by taking away their liberty.

Again, something having a point to it doesn't make it okay. If that were the case, anything with a point would be okay, including FGM. But you've already condemned FGM as pointless despite it having a "point", a retarded point. You're being inconsistent. With everything so far, either something only needs a "point" to be cool or this rule only applies when it's convenient for you.

[LilSaihah]

If you are referring to circumcision you should be banned for your complete ignorance. These two things arent even close to similar. Castration is equivalent.

Yes, yes, person on internet has differing opinion to you and should be banned. On yer way

It's not a human rights violation because there is no life threatening issue arising from it.

FGM does not threaten the life of the woman either (at least, no threats that are not also present in MGM), that doesn't mean it's not a human rights violation.

The human rights violation is because you're performing a procedure without medical necessity on someone who cannot consent. 99% of the time if you're applying a knife to a baby's genitals you're not very good at ethics.

[Thrive]

Human Rights Defintion per Wikipedia:


The basic rights and freedoms to which all humans are considered to be entitled, often held to include the rights to life, liberty, equality, and a fair trial, freedom from slavery and torture, and freedom of thought and expression.

So no, something doesn't have to be a life threatening issue for it to violate human rights. By definition, it isn't a necessary condition by any means.

The foreskin is the most sensitive part of the penis. To think that this has fuck all to do with sexual pleasure is just plain wrong. You're taking that away from people for no good reason at a time when they're unable to consent to it. That's a human rights violation by taking away their liberty.

Again, something having a point to it doesn't make it okay. If that were the case, anything with a point would be okay, including FGM. But you've already condemned FGM as pointless despite it having a "point", a retarded point. You're being inconsistent. With everything so far, either something only needs a "point" to be cool or this rule only applies when it's convenient for you.

I'm not being inconsistent, you just seem to have a convenient memory.
The foreskins is also not the most sensitive part. That's a myth. If I'm not mistaken many studies have been done on this matter and sensitivity varies from individual to individual.
But your right, we should stop giving kids vaccines because they can't make a choice. Sure there is a 'point' to it, but maybe it causes autism kind of so we should ban that. Oh and no more driving with your kids in the car. They don't have a choice and they might die. And the government should also step in and mandate their diet because god forbid parents do that and accidentally feed them shit that stunts their development.

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Yes, yes, person on internet has differing opinion to you and should be banned. On yer way



FGM does not threaten the life of the woman either, that doesn't mean it's not a human rights violation.

The human rights violation is because you're performing a procedure without medical necessity on someone who cannot consent. 99% of the time if you're applying a knife to a baby's genitals you're not very good at ethics.

Do you know how FGM is done? You should look up some pictures. It does pose a life threatening issue. It can cause sterilization. Many times the region gets horribly infected.

[LilSaihah]

Do you know how FGM is done? You should look up some pictures. It does pose a life threatening issue. It can cause sterilization. Many times the region gets horribly infected.

Because MGM never results in sterilization or infections, and FGM doesn't tend to be performed by backwards societies and cultures who don't understand how medicine works which increases the rates of these conditions. /s

[THE Bigzoman]

I'm not being inconsistent, you just seem to have a convenient memory.

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Do you know how FGM is done? You should look up some pictures. It does pose a life threatening issue. It can cause sterilization. Many times the region gets horribly infected.

Yes, you are.

But i'd rather not argue in circles because it gets dizzy.

[Thrive]

Yes, you are.

But i'd rather not argue in circles because it gets dizzy.

Same here bud. Sensationalism is tiring.

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Because MGM never results in sterilization or infections, and FGM doesn't tend to be performed by backwards societies and cultures who don't understand how medicine works which increases the rates of these conditions. /s

As far as I know there are few to no causes of circumcision causing sterilization. Infections are likely a lot less common even in backward societies as its a much less intrusive thing.

[THE Bigzoman]

Same here bud. Sensationalism is tiring.

So is not knowing the definition of things and arbitrarily throwing in necessary conditions for something to be a violation of said thing.

[Thrive]

So is not knowing the definition of things and arbitrarily throwing in necessary conditions for something to be a violation of said thing.

I understand the idea of human rights. It's not a difficult concept. I fail to see how circumcision is something that should be considered that. The only thing I can see in people arguing this issue is pure sensationalism and victimization.

[Theoris]

Progress. Good on you, Russia.

[Uurdz]

Yeah, and being a gaming forum it's in large part young, inexperienced and/or socially awkward or maladapted men.

And OTT SJW women? I don't believe your broad sweeping generalization is a positive contribution here.

[THE Bigzoman]

I understand the idea of human rights. It's not a difficult concept. I fail to see how circumcision is something that should be considered that. The only thing I can see in people arguing this issue is pure sensationalism and victimization.

Clearly you don't if you think something has to be a life threatening issue to be a human rights violation.


So you're just going dismiss my explanation for why it's a human rights violation as "sensationalism"?

Whatever.

I'm done. Let someone else try to get you to acknowledge your inconsistent stupidity.

[Deleted]

That and religious tradition. It's not just pointless mutilation.

Well, that is certainly a valid argument /s

[LilSaihah]

As far as I know there are few to no causes of circumcision causing sterilization. Infections are likely a lot less common even in backward societies as its a much less intrusive thing.

If you're going to turn this into a statistical affair rather than simple potentialities, please cite data on MGM vs FGM rates when it comes to sterilization and infection.

I understand the idea of human rights. It's not a difficult concept. I fail to see how circumcision is something that should be considered that. The only thing I can see in people arguing this issue is pure sensationalism and victimization.

It's pretty straightforward. You don't give people medical procedures they don't need or consent to. This is ethical doctoring 101.

Are circumcisions medically necessary?
No.
Can babies consent?
No.
Therefore, MGM is not ethical.

[Thrive]

Clearly you don't if you think something has to be a life threatening issue to be a human rights violation.


So you're just going dismiss my explanation for why it's a human rights violation as "sensationalism"?

Whatever.

I'm saying that's a valid reason as to why FGM should be a human rights violation.
Do you know how Female circumcision works? It's a lot worse that it sounds and it includes the removal of the clitoris and the sewing close of the vagina with the exclusion of a hole for the urethra. It is an extremely dangerous and painful procedure.
Male circumcision is the removal of the foreskin, a flap that would (and to an extent is) often times become infected and have several other medical issues stemming from it.
I don't understand how you can't see the difference, and ignoring the difference and claiming that something with medical reasoning, maybe not to the extent that you'd like but with reasoning none the less, is somehow inhumane and a human rights crisis is nothing less than sensationalism.

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Well, that is certainly a valid argument /s

Way to cherry pick bud.
Maybe we should also ban kids from having wine at communion.

[Super Kami Dende]

We really need a Male Circumcision Megathread or something, since every single FGM thread - without fail - ends up being about male circumcision.

Because they are 2 sides of the same coin? Why the fuck shouldn't people bring it up when anything that is ever spoken about Male wise is always followed with "B-BUT WOMYN GET IT WORSER!!"