Jaina Proudmoore - Butchering

[Evilfish]

Ok, let's just clarify a few things.

First, Jaina trusted the Horde. Thralls Horde. Why? Because she had all the reasons to. They fought by her side and she fought by theirs during one of the most important periods of time. Relied on each other.

Second, the Horde helped her regain her city when daddy took it away from her and meant to use it as a base of operation against Thrall's Horde. So at that point she had more reasons to trust the Horde than the Alliance which went to shit on the other continent.

As much as some would want, you can't put that one on the Horde. Since Daddy came in and brushed her aside like she was a little kid, not a leader of a force that stood against the end of the world. But instead of going to her room she puts her foot down and says no! She acts like a leader would have, putting her emotions aside. That was the Jaina Proudmoore I liked. She had her innocence, but she was willing to stand up for what she believes in, against anyone, including her own father.

But later, as if everyone forgot, she does the exact thing she killed her daddy for - allows her city to be used as a military access point. Apparently she has no qualms with the events that happened before with her daddy. Any logic behind this? None! To put the cherry on the cream, she goes crying to him too after shit goes sore for her. That is the metaphoric butcher's knife dropping on her character. And now it begins.

From there on she's just an emotional gun. No thought, next to no common sense, just infantile emotion outbursts. And people say she's a good character... Obviously not interested in her actual character, just cause she hates the Horde.

You know, she could not be turned into a major hypocrite and an immature spoiled brat and still hate the Horde. And to be honest you really don't want her to be just that chick who hates the Horde, cause the dude who hated the Alliance just bit the dust last expansion and Garrosh Hellscream was twisted to adapt to the changing story so we could kill him, the same is happening to Jaina and the stupid Alliance fanboys refuse to see it and keep up their moronic support her character when they should argue for it's salvation. She can still hate the Horde. Just make her a god damned leader people would realistically want to follow.

Right now it's really hard to see why anyone would want Jaina Proudmoore leading them. She failed to protect her city, say what you want, Jaina Proudmoore acted like a stupid little girl up until the bomb dropped on her head.

She suffered a trauma that made her mentally unstable and she keeps showing it. She's not the first character with a tragic past and yes it does justify her hating the Horde, I'm not arguing that, but it does not justify her being a leader, because she has proven it at almost every turn she can't lead. So followng Jaina Proudmoore just cause Hellscream killed her gnome and wrecked her dollhouse is not a SANE choice. But people kept following her and rarely did they question her decisions. Again why?

They were either scared shitless of her, which is not true as far as I've seen. Or they are milking this "Hates the Horde cuz of Theramore" deal to justify her holding a position of leadership with ZERO leadership skills and no questions asked.

I want the old Jaina back. She can keep hating the Horde as much as she wants but I want to see her free of hypocrisy and incompetence, I want to see her called on her mistakes, past and future, not given a pass cause her gnome is dead, I want to see her being a leader that people would follow and me as a horde player could enjoy her as an enemy character.

This shit, the shit that you see her doing is leading her character into an early grave and perhaps that's where she belongs, especially if her path does not change.

I keep waiting for the moment where she admits her mistakes, where she comes to terms with her own faults in the fall of her city and her complete naivete in her decision to trust people. And for fuck sake, what's the deal with the blue reptile. There was no god damn point to that relationship and there isn't one now. If they MUST find her a boyfriend, at least find one who isn't a giant blue douchebag.

Just please, don't destroy that character up to the point where you have to kill it. Fix her. Make people admire her again, because she's a good character with a good story, not just induce the idea they are supposed to feel bad for her cause her gnome was killed.

[Orby]

I would rather side with Jaina than Anduin, hope thats an option in the future. I will refuse to fight her. :P

I want some "Jaina Was Right" propaganda posters lol

[Andromedes]

But later, as if everyone forgot, she does the exact thing she killed her daddy for - allows her city to be used as a military access point. Apparently she has no qualms with the events that happened before with her daddy. Any logic behind this? None! To put the cherry on the cream, she goes crying to him too after shit goes sore for her. That is the metaphoric butcher's knife dropping on her character. And now it begins.

''Since Warchief Garrosh wants to defeat the night elves and conquer the whole of Kalimdor under the banner of the Horde, offensives into the Southern Barrens have been sent in response and secured territory once belonging to the Horde for Varian and his allies. The humans of Theramore have sent their army and tried to establish a military line between night elf territory and Theramore.''

There you have it, right from wowpedia.

[MORGATH99]

i could care less about jaina i really could

[Deleted]

Speaking for Jaina
Where she did go when every one at broken shore was need to pick up their bags and GTFO
If you watch the movies there isnt Jaina anywhere around and if she was there could just teleport the whole alliance army

[Andromedes]

Thats why she wasnt there.. Blizzard dont want to use deus ex machina porting.

[Evilfish]

I do not think they will end up killing her.
Something I would like to see is Jaina continuing on this road.
And then, just this one time, she goes too far. She might kill someone she cares about, perhaps she wants to attack the Horde in Dalaran and end up killing the father of her Gnome friend?

And what? Blame the Horde? They made her do it! Poor-poor Jaina. Cuz de Horde killed her gnome and her city she got upset and shot a fireball at a belf but missed and carbonized another gnome you are supposed to care about but don't really.

Then what? She goes crazier?

[Andromedes]

Some counterargument for my quote from wowpedia?

[Raugnaut]

The Zandalari are still quite hostile to both the alliance and horde though. They show up again in the throne of thunder with plans to kill everyone with the thunder king. So, at least we can conclude they weren't nice guys. Even if we did the Gurubashi a favor, i don't think we didn't benefit from it. We pushed the hostile Zandalari back. Not to mention their plans to summon Akkar wich certainly weren't well intentioned.

The Gurubashi were the ones in Zul'Gurub. The Zandalari were the ones who hired adventurers. I would have to say that I am more... learned, on the topic of trolls then you are. The Gurubashi were NOT planning anything against the whole of Azeroth when we went in and killed them - only against the Zandalari. The summoning of Hakkar (Not Akkar) was purely to give them an edge against the Zandalari.

[Deleted]

The Gurubashi were the ones in Zul'Gurub. The Zandalari were the ones who hired adventurers. I would have to say that I am more... learned, on the topic of trolls then you are. The Gurubashi were NOT planning anything against the whole of Azeroth when we went in and killed them - only against the Zandalari. The summoning of Hakkar (Not Akkar) was purely to give them an edge against the Zandalari.

I actually didn't raid ZG in vanilla so i don't have as good a grasp on the situation. I really doubt that those trolls were well intentioned though. Regardless we are way off-track here. Even if we were hired as mercenaries to assist with a third party, it isn't the same as suddenly getting the alliance to kill Jaina. That is unthinkable.

[Nisko]

What the hell is Blizzard doing to her? They are going for rock bottom with this character who, at some point, was damned good.

I felt the exact same way! Absolutely flabbergasted by how she is acting. If they need a token Horde-hater, they should use someone other than a great character like Jaina (used to be). Using Jaina in that way doesn't seem to have a sensical basis...

[Blizzhoof]

Threads like these make me miss Cairne They should have never killed him off the way they did.

I just don't understand why he would fight in the Mok'gora while his ult was on cd. Bad move.

On topic, how is anyone taking these Alliance fanboys seriously when they are pretending that the attack on Theramore wasn't justified? Jaina made it a target by allowing the Alliance to use it as a staging point for their attack of the Horde. Military targets get attacked. Garrosh did not mess with Theramore at all until Jaina put in in play because it was actually neutral.

[Hound Archon]

Military targets get attacked.

Something something conventional warfare, something something weapons of mass destruction, something something civilians.

[Andromedes]

I just don't understand why he would fight in the Mok'gora while his ult was on cd. Bad move.

On topic, how is anyone taking these Alliance fanboys seriously when they are pretending that the attack on Theramore wasn't justified? Jaina made it a target by allowing the Alliance to use it as a staging point for their attack of the Horde. Military targets get attacked. Garrosh did not mess with Theramore at all until Jaina put in in play because it was actually neutral.

Ok i will post it here again, since Evilfish couldnt find argument, maybe you can. You as horde fanboy are blinded to what horde has done and you only see alliance actions and feel hurted.

''Since Warchief Garrosh wants to defeat the night elves and conquer the whole of Kalimdor under the banner of the Horde, offensives into the Southern Barrens have been sent in response and secured territory once belonging to the Horde for Varian and his allies. The humans of Theramore have sent their army and tried to establish a military line between night elf territory and Theramore.''

[Sigxy]

While I believe that Blizzard is just doing a REALLY bad story telling about Jaina, which is a shame as she's my 2nd favorite character since Warcraft 3 - Let's just SAY that Blizzard was good at story telling and maybe (And ignore how stupid it is that Khadgar, while I like him too, runs in and goes "Let's make a vote!" when Jaina is in charge), just maybe, explain a way why she behaves the way she does now.

Like... in all honesty, maybe the mana bomb in Theramore (Despite she got through a portal) did some brain damage to her? Not in any offensive or joking way, but in all honesty, some brain damage was caused and changed her personality. Then again in a world filled with fantasy and magic, we can't go into the logics of biology I presume.

[Keuric]

When you think about it Garrosh trying to have Vol'jin assassinated seems out of character for him. If his patience with him was really at it's limits he would have just challenged him to a fight to the death. But this is when Garrosh really lost it.

I do think Garrosh's ending cinematic kind of sums up what his issues were.

"You made me Warchief!" A responsibility he clearly wasn't ready for. That along with his daddy issues probably drove him to the edge.

"You LEFT me to pick up your pieces!! Hearing his voice crack displays how conflicted he was. Thrall was also like a brother to him, the one that pulled him out of his depression, the one who guided his reckless hands. Not only did Thrall put him charge for the Cataclysm, but he left for good. Didn't even come to freakin visit or act as a damn consultant. And if you read the books the Horde was going through some serious crap at the time aside from just Deathwing.

"YOU FAILED MEEEEEEEE!!!!!" Garrosh knows that he failed the Horde, just as Thrall said, but Thrall failed him, by totally bailing. Garrosh wasn't ready, everyone and their mother knew it, but Thrall apparently.

"Thrall!!!! You made me what I am" While Garrosh needs to take responsibility for his actions, it seems like even he was disgusted at what he had become.

No. Don't. Just don't. Garrosh was already willing to engage in a Mak'gora during the invasion event of Wrath for leadership of the Horde. He was ready to take over leadership in his own deluded mind. I get that people want to blame Thrall for Garrosh. I really do. But Garrosh did what Garrosh did, Thrall bailed to go and save the world. We're not talking about him skipping town to go get some great bud or something, or hotbox Malfurion in his dad's Oldsmobile. He went out and saved the world.

I play Alliance. I naturally want to slap Thrall around because he's just such a Mary Sue of a character. But this argument is absurd. Garrosh was a genocidal monster. He wanted to escape the shadow of his father, he wanted to return the Horde to "the old ways," but the old ways were awful.

Stop blaming a badly-written character (Thrall) for another badly-written character's bad actions (Garrosh).

[Demeia]

I don't mean to be too snide, because you're completely right, Jainas writing has been awful.

But we're all just going to have to get used to the fact that Blizzards sucks at storytelling.

They do and I also think it's extremely hard to tell a story in an MMO. We make virtually no meaningful choices. But Jaina has been pretty awful so far. I'm sure we'll kill her or she'll die realizing her mistake at the last minute, or something silly.

[Kahmal]

No. Don't. Just don't. Garrosh was already willing to engage in a Mak'gora during the invasion event of Wrath for leadership of the Horde. He was ready to take over leadership in his own deluded mind. I get that people want to blame Thrall for Garrosh. I really do. But Garrosh did what Garrosh did, Thrall bailed to go and save the world. We're not talking about him skipping town to go get some great bud or something, or hotbox Malfurion in his dad's Oldsmobile. He went out and saved the world.

I play Alliance. I naturally want to slap Thrall around because he's just such a Mary Sue of a character. But this argument is absurd. Garrosh was a genocidal monster. He wanted to escape the shadow of his father, he wanted to return the Horde to "the old ways," but the old ways were awful.

Stop blaming a badly-written character (Thrall) for another badly-written character's bad actions (Garrosh).

As I said Garrosh is responsible for his actions. But Thrall is still a dimwit for appointing him Warchief.

Think of how Vol'jin appointed the freakin Banshee Queen as Warchief. It makes complete sense in this regard, this is the freakin Legion we're talking about, the biggest invasion ever and the biggest threat in WoW. You look at the Horde's faction leaders and it's quite sad how it's quality has fallen over the years (any of the Ally faction leaders are worthy imo). Baine is too young and inexperienced, Gallawax......lol just not an option. That leaves Sylvannas and Lor'themar, the elves and the Forsaken are the outcast of the Horde, but both have 1000s of years of experience. Sylvannas has been in the Horde the longest and is thee most accomplished battle commander. She's not an ideal choice but she's certainty the best one.

You look at Thrall's options at the time, Vol'jin whose been with the Horde since it's inception. Cairne, probably the wisest and has also been with the Horde from the start. And everyone forgets about freakin Saurfang for some damn reason. I mean at this point Sylvannas isn't even worth considering. But Thrall and all his shamanistic wisdom goes with wild card that is Garrosh. The guys an idiot....

[Verdugo]

''Since Warchief Garrosh wants to defeat the night elves and conquer the whole of Kalimdor under the banner of the Horde, offensives into the Southern Barrens have been sent in response and secured territory once belonging to the Horde for Varian and his allies. The humans of Theramore have sent their army and tried to establish a military line between night elf territory and Theramore.''

So basicaly, they broke neutrality.

[Andromedes]

Horde? Yes. They broke an agreement of not invading ashenvale.