Invasion Final Stage 'Bad Design'

[Aeula]

What sucks most is getting that curse of doom debuff on an low level. Can't avoid it and it one shots you when it runs out. Plus it absorbs healing.

[Deleted]

That wouldn't happen if anyone ever gave a single heal to the tanks.

BTW: Why do you even bother to tag the boss on the last stage?

What sucks most is getting that curse of doom debuff on an low level. Can't avoid it and it one shots you when it runs out. Plus it absorbs healing.

That one is plain bullshit, only way to survive that is something like Iceblock or Cloak of Shadows.
I believe resto druids can dispell that one too but you don't get any healers on those Invasions.

[Darktbs]

The times where i soul stone myself,ress up only to die in the next second.

[Maletalana]

The last boss is meant to be done in group/raid. Since nobody communicate or group, as a single melee class you'll be struggling to survive on most boss encounter. The worst is when theres no tank and you see people running around and dying one after another.

Are world bosses bad design? Same thing applies here. If theres no tank/healers, you'll die often and its gonna be a painfull kill. Theres a difference between Bad Design and Wrong approach.

Oh my goodness this!!!! ^^^

[Jewsco]

Okay but isn't it fair then? If XP is that you are after, that means you are lower level and fighting a massive demon that is higher level, lowers your chances of survival. This is true when you start at level 1.

Have you done it at all on a lower level toon? All mobs and even the end boss adjust to your level. The problem is the moves the final boss does do not though so they one shot you. What is so hard for some to get here?

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That wouldn't happen if anyone ever gave a single heal to the tanks.

BTW: Why do you even bother to tag the boss on the last stage?


That one is plain bullshit, only way to survive that is something like Iceblock or Cloak of Shadows.
I believe resto druids can dispell that one too but you don't get any healers on those Invasions.

Well for leveling toons you get double the xp if you tag the final boss and as for everyone else if no one attacks it it never will die so someone has to.

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Appearently it's a big problem as I see a lot of people complaining about others tagging the boss and go hiding in the building without participating in the fight at all.
So you get a lot of tag-and-hide players.
Leveling players that chose to participate in the fight, and help down the boss quicker have a big chance to be punished by getting less experience compared to the hiders. That is bad design.

At this point this guy is just arguing and has no knowledge of these one shot mechanics and what they are encouraging other players to do. I guess he thinks it is better if everyone tagged the boss once and ran away since he has no problem with those actually helping kill the boss dying and losing out on xp. Seems some talk about things they no not of and won't even back down when shown they are wrong.

[Davemetalhead]

BTW: Why do you even bother to tag the boss on the last stage?

.

Big chunk of xp if you do, can be as much if not more than the xp you get from the stage completion itself. It's also why it's a good idea to go after the skulls during stage 3 if you can - around 40k xp each.

[kary]

The doom should be Azgalor's red undispellable doom. Unavoidable death + spawns a doomguard.

[Keuric]

Are you sure about that? On the named mobs I am 99% sure I am still getting exp even if I am dead. On all the non-named that I ran arround tagging, the tag seems to expire when you die, so I don't think I am getting exp on those when dead.

Without question, you do not get the XP. I've done about 25 invasions on 3 alts trying to power-level. If I die, the XP is lost if I'm still waiting to res/running to tag. I can't count the number of times I'll proactively throw a shuriken just to get the tag and have to hide in/behind a building. You get shards, sure. You get chests. But the XP is lost. You get the XP for the event being completed, but not for any mob's death that you've tagged, after you've died.

[Gaidax]

What? You mean you can die in PvE content? *GASP* hotfix it now Blizzurd FAST!

[Deleted]

That wouldn't happen if anyone ever gave a single heal to the tanks.

The problem is that any healer doing the invasions is probably there to level their character. The people tanking are generally level 100 demon hunters with upwards of 20 times the hp pool of a healer even 10 levels behind them. The only time it's reasonable to expect a heal, if you didn't bring your own healer, is when you're a lowbie tank. Regardless somebody else is gonna taunt the boss from them anyway, because every tank wants to be the tank.

On top of that, if you're on a pvp realm and you don't want to get flagged in one of your own zone, you've also gotta double check the pvp status of the person tanking before you heal them. Sometimes that pause is long enough for the heal not to land.

And bear in mind that with players generally preferring to run away from the boss after they've taken aggro, it's gets pretty frustrating trying to pin-point exactly where you need to be in order to get range for your heals.

At that point you just shrug and carry on casting smite instead.

[Deleted]

That wouldn't happen if anyone ever gave a single heal to the tanks.

BTW: Why do you even bother to tag the boss on the last stage?


That one is plain bullshit, only way to survive that is something like Iceblock or Cloak of Shadows.
I believe resto druids can dispell that one too but you don't get any healers on those Invasions.

I find it impossible to keep any tanks up.
I tried, I tried it on my pally, my shammy, my druid, my priest and my monk.
Even if you have a tank tanking long enough to spam any heal enhancement routine, they will end up dying.
That is not counted the numerous situations where tanks keep taunting off each other, making it hard to heal anything at all.
I mean people are not grouped up. I pick my healing targets by focussing the boss, and seeing who the boss is focussing.
So I heal the boss' focus. If that focus hops from one player to another, to yet another, to yet another, to again another, etc, I can't keep track, I can't keep them up.
All shit hits the fan if there is one tank actually tanking, and other tanks are not continuously taunting off, and due to bullshit amounts of damage the tank dies, not other tank takes over and the boss just chases dps after dps after dps, killing half of them wile running around everywhere.

I read everywhere, if healers would just throw out heals...
It's very hard, it's not always undoable, especially if there are several healers who keep track of who the boss is focussing on.
But those situations rarely happen.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

I actually quite like it, its kinda cool seeing this giant creature just MOW down dozens of people. It feels like what a real invasion would be.

Think of it like that and you wont mind as much. Regardless, if you HATE dying so much, just do some damage and get the hell out of there.

[Keuric]

I grasp it just fine. I just think it's entirely irrelevant. You have a system that let's you level really quickly, with the only risk being you might not get the whole bundle of xp. And that's only under the single condition of your toon being dead when the boss drops. Why is this a problem?

No, that is not the single condition. There's a second condition: you have to survive long enough to run back and tag it, while risking another death or not getting the tag off before death. The damage from these guys doesn't scale well, that is the complaint. If I'm level 100, he'd hit me for say, 100k damage. If I'm 60, he'd hit me for say, 60k damage. At level 94 on my rogue, I only have 80k health, how much do you think a level 60 has? Maybe 10k?

This isn't scaling as it should be done, it should scale to match the difficulty of what that level can handle. But it doesn't. If I'm a 94, and there's any AoE attack, I have no choice but to run away and hide. I can take 3 ticks of Eye of Doom or whatever, which presents enormous risk to running into the eye. And that's followed up by Shadow Nova, which overkills me for 50k+ of my health.

You are failing to grasp this simple, basic concept: this is poorly scaled, poorly designed, poorly implemented if you're doing anything other than gear/shard farming.

[Jewsco]

What? You mean you can die in PvE content? *GASP* hotfix it now Blizzurd FAST!

Another special person that doesn't grasp the problem. Dying from one shot mechanics is bad design. Dying from ones own fault or over pulls is fine and to be expected. But one shot mechanics is not the way it should be. Just encourages the player base to tag and run causing those that stay and fight to fight longer or die more often. Which will lead to these invasions to last a lot longer.

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I actually quite like it, its kinda cool seeing this giant creature just MOW down dozens of people. It feels like what a real invasion would be.

Think of it like that and you wont mind as much. Regardless, if you HATE dying so much, just do some damage and get the hell out of there.

If everyone does that the stage will never end see the problem now?

[NickCageFanatic]

BUT I need to say that final stage is so unforgiving to melee what ended happening is tag the boss and run away

Yes that's exactly how you do it as melee, even ranged that isn't level 100. There are a few abilities that just one or two shot you unless you are a class that has those god send CDs like Ice Block or Bubble for example. If you aren't in a group with a healer you simply tag and run away.

[jellmoo]

At this point this guy is just arguing and has no knowledge of these one shot mechanics and what they are encouraging other players to do. I guess he thinks it is better if everyone tagged the boss once and ran away since he has no problem with those actually helping kill the boss dying and losing out on xp. Seems some talk about things they no not of and won't even back down when shown they are wrong.

Since you seem to be passive aggressively talking about me here...

As I mentioned many moons ago, I wasn't talking about the leveling experience. You're the one that went on that tangent. And I maintain that this isn't a problem. Players have the tools they need to contribute to these battles. They may die because of bad luck, but the encounter isn't meant to be a walk in the park.

And considering that literally all of the dozens of such encounters I've seen have been resolved, this mass epidemic of players ducking the fight is unlikely to be as widespread as you make it out to be.

But please. Go on. Please continue assuming you have all the answers and that everyone that has the temerity to disagree with you or have a different point of view is wrong. Go on being repeatedly aggressive for no reason. Please go on assuming you're 100% right and know everything and then plug your ears and go "lalala" when people don't line up behind you and just agree with you completely.

[jellmoo]

No, that is not the single condition. There's a second condition: you have to survive long enough to run back and tag it, while risking another death or not getting the tag off before death. The damage from these guys doesn't scale well, that is the complaint. If I'm level 100, he'd hit me for say, 100k damage. If I'm 60, he'd hit me for say, 60k damage. At level 94 on my rogue, I only have 80k health, how much do you think a level 60 has? Maybe 10k?

This isn't scaling as it should be done, it should scale to match the difficulty of what that level can handle. But it doesn't. If I'm a 94, and there's any AoE attack, I have no choice but to run away and hide. I can take 3 ticks of Eye of Doom or whatever, which presents enormous risk to running into the eye. And that's followed up by Shadow Nova, which overkills me for 50k+ of my health.

You are failing to grasp this simple, basic concept: this is poorly scaled, poorly designed, poorly implemented if you're doing anything other than gear/shard farming.

Dude, I keep getting pulled into the topic of leveling characters which is not something I was talking about. All I was ever discussing was melee having problems with the design of these encounters. I maintain that this isn't true. The topic of characters leveling up with this encounter is not one I wanted to discuss, but for some reason it kept being brought back up to counter what I has said.

[bigsuirlife]

invasion CD it's lower this week or still 1,5 hrs?

[Profyrion]

I'd love to learn the boss mechanics, but there are just so damn many of them...

[Heathe]

For starters, the pre-launch event is unlike anything we've seen recently for an upcoming expansion. Another thing worth realizing is that we are under a fully-fledged Burning Legion invasion. This is not supposed to be an easy task. If players aren't dying and struggling to defend themselves and the rest of the world against the Burning Legion, there wouldn't be any real perceived threat of defeat or annihilation. If you're finding yourself overwhelmed by an invading force, you should seek help or find an alternative way to deal with it. Doesn't really make sense for you to be able to run into a horde of demons and handle it by yourself.

Anyway, I hope you enjoy the actual expansion more than you are enjoying the pre-launch event. Have fun