Kayn or Altruis

[Noradin]

Well, when you choose to sacrifice yourself or Sevis, no matter what you choose, both come back to life. That means we are corrupted too. So Atruis will betray us anyway.

Maybe Altruis is corrupted too, but is another generic hypocrite character that blizzard loves.

I suspect he is, he thinks he is the ultimate moral authority (he distrusts everyone) and backstabs those whom deems in the wrong. If he can he has no compulsions to kills those he disagrees with if they do not give in--even his comrades.

How can you trust that what he claims as his reasons are really his reasons?

I do not agree with the means Illidan uses all the time, and I prefer advisors who can give their own input, but I'd rather bring those up myself than have someone I cannot trust at my back. With what I learned of Kayn he kan think, and he sometimes disagrees, but he is unlikely to stab us in the back whereas with Altruis I would have to worry that the moment I have a disagreement with Illidan he would fall both of us in the back. I couldn't leave him in charge when I have to look after something else for fear of him no keeping to what was discussed before but deciding to follow his own "morals". He might be alright as advisor, valuable even, but I cannot see him in a position of power. He has shown himself loyal only to what he himself precieves as right, if, as someone here pointed out, every demon hunter is in danger of being corrupted, then he seems one of the most endangered. When he puts his own judgement above all else and kills those he disagrees with, then what happens when he gets corrupted? Would he even notice? Would we? Maybe he is already.

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Altruis all the way. Might choose Kayn if i make an alt Belf DH just to see if it changes anything but i much prefer Altruis as a character as i can't stand people who blindly follow orders without ever questioning anything (basically Kayn).

How do you know? Just because Altuis says so? Wouldn't that make you one of those people you cannot stand? Because you blindly follow one person disregarding all others?

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I went for Kayn after discovering what Altruis made the player characters do in TBC. He gives quests to kill 4 demon hunters at the black temple, one of which was to be a very strong asset against the legion. Not only did his betrayal lead to the death of four of our brothers/sisters, it ultimately also doomed them to serving the legion - all four of them are present in Legion. Altruis 'misguided' "I thought I was doing the right thing" costed us to much.

As for Akama, after reading Illadin I now have no sympathy for him. Kayn's approach only seems a fair reward for Akama's betrayel.

Yes, Altruis biggest fault is that he thinks he is without fault and everyone who isn't of the same opinion as him has to die, a sure sign of corruption by power.

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I agree with most of the points about Kayn being the right choice. I certainly picked him at the end of the starting quests without having to weigh the decision too hard. However I feel bad about ripping Akama's soul out later on if you pick Kayn. Despite my misgivings about Akama, I don't feel he deserves that. Having Shade of Akama as a bodyguard feels strange too. I wish they were separate choices, or you could choose to have no dealings with Akama in general.

I agree, but this is storytelling, we do not get all the choices that might be possible.

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I feel like I'm not 100% clear, now that Akama has or had brought down Illidan, which is why he needed his shade, on his situation with it. Clearly it's a messed up part of him that wants to help illidan and is "evil" still. So is he better off with it? I don't know.

But I also wish the choices were separate.

In retrospec we cannot even be sure that was "the evil part" and he was "the good part" of whole Akama.
It could have been reversed, or more likely both had good and evil parts.

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It is technically true, but Leodok's way of putting it illustrates their philosophical differences much better.

I know, but I wanted to point out the downsides of those.

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What is it's stated purpose? Presumably given "stated" Blizzard have said why it's there?

Well, the quest text said something like: "Look into the pool and watch a summary of the two choice'S past actions and characters."
What do we get instead? Something about Illidan that should have been shown right after the character creation and not when we decide among two prospects for our second in command who whe are supposed to have had a long history with being in the same order for years allengedly.

[Shibito]

Holy shit chillax out, never seen so much anger in a thread before. ANd ive read all of Justrobs threads.

[TheWorkingTitle]

You're either ignorant or a cuckold if you chose Altruis. He's a traitor in every sense of the word, made us destroy the Book of Fel Names, doesn't believe in the Demon Hunter sacrifice or cause, and is responsible for the murder of many Illidari. Easiest choice ever to pick Kayn.

[Logwyn]

You're either ignorant or a cuckold if you chose Altruis. He's a traitor in every sense of the word, made us destroy the Book of Fel Names, doesn't believe in the Demon Hunter sacrifice or cause, and is responsible for the murder of many Illidari. Easiest choice ever to pick Kayn.

Every traitor is someone else's hero. Depends on the side you are on.

[Pigglix]

In the end we will all blindly follow someone, even Altruis, since you know..we're all blind and stuff..

I'll help myself out...

Also, Kayn ftw.

[Noradin]

Every traitor is someone else's hero. Depends on the side you are on.

Yes, I'm pretty sure the Legion likes Altruis very much, but I'm not sure they have "heros"

[Holofernes]

Kayn is the gay little fanboy that is only happy if he gets dicked down by his master, i would never be able to choose him. just no.

[Leodok]

I do not agree.

His own ends justify the means -> Altruis
His own ends don't justify the means -> Kayn

Is just as true.

It's more about the way THEY see it.
They both have the same end/goal, defeating the Legion. Kayn believes he can do whatever he wants if it's gonna help him achieve this goal, while Altruis believes there is a limit to what he can and/or should do.

[cuafpr]

Altruis, and feel the game did a bad job of telling people, esp new players the big difference between them. The harbringers clip seems out of place in game and to me didn't seem to provide any insight for the player less i missed something.

[RedNight at MMOC]

I chose Kayn Sunfury. The Illidari are stronger together, and we follow the path of Lord Illidan. He has given us purpose, has trained us, and guided us. Together we raided Legion worlds and brought low mighty demon lords. How can Altruis, a lone elf, accomplish what the Illidari have?

[Logwyn]

I chose Kayn Sunfury. The Illidari are stronger together, and we follow the path of Lord Illidan. He has given us purpose, has trained us, and guided us. Together we raided Legion worlds and brought low mighty demon lords. How can Altruis, a lone elf, accomplish what the Illidari have?

So we're just suppose to wave after all the crap Illian has done? His dealing with Sageras and Kil'jaeden?

[Perovano]

This poll should only be allowed to people that read the book. If you are a DH and didn't choose Kayn, you are not a DH. That's all!

[RedNight at MMOC]

So we're just suppose to wave after all the crap Illian has done? His dealing with Sageras and Kil'jaeden?

If you knew the true story of Lord Illidan, you would not wave away what you call "crap" - he is to be commended. He played the Dark Titan and the Deceiver for fools, stealing the Legion's power to use against them!

[Thelxi]

I picked the rebel one, not the Illidan superfan. Not sure if he was the belf or nelf.

[Black Sand]

You're either ignorant or a cuckold if you chose Altruis.

Who pissed in your cheerios?

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

So we're just suppose to wave after all the crap Illian has done? His dealing with Sageras and Kil'jaeden?

If you read the book, written from Illidan's point of view, he really is out to defeat the Legion all along. Sure he's bitter about being imprisoned all those years, and he feels no special loyalty to elves (other than Tyrande). But he hates the Legion more than anything and all his scheming has their defeat in mind.

Should we question his methods? Obviously. But playing a DH kind of assumes we've already decided we're prepared to sacrifice everything to stop the Legion. Heck, the reason we don't have eyes is because we were granted a vision of what the Legion truly is, and gouged out our own eyes to make the vision stop.

[Noradin]

It's more about the way THEY see it.
They both have the same end/goal, defeating the Legion. Kayn believes he can do whatever he wants if it's gonna help him achieve this goal, while Altruis believes there is a limit to what he can and/or should do.

No, Altruis believes he knows what to do to achieve this goal and that any means he deems necessary are justified--such as backstabbing his comrades--while Kayn knows it needs a group working together to achieve anything long term. We do not actually know that Kayn supposedly believes he can do whatever he wants (and wouldn't that be in direct contradiction of him being a yes man who blindly follows orders) when we make the choice between them. We know that Kayn wants to work in a group while Altruis wants a coup that places him in the position of power.

Basically, he is thriving to be everything he condems Illidan for allengedly being.
Illidan asks comrades to sacrifice themselfes for the common goal they agreed to, Altruis decides to sacrifice comades for his goal.
That is the information our character has when they are asked to make that decision.

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So we're just suppose to wave after all the crap Illian has done? His dealing with Sageras and Kil'jaeden?

No, but how would choosing Altruis help with that?
Have one Illidan to convince over you while another stands at your back ready to stab you for his own goals?
Altruis is a loose canon, he cannot be trusted to keep the fort while we are hashing things out with Illidan.
We are in a stronger position to discuss such things when we have the knowledge that Kayn will keep to what was agreed upon until we reach a decision.

The position we choose someone for was that of second in command, not chief advisor.
I would have liked to keep Altruis as advisor, but trust him to by my deputy? Never.
Also, we do not know that Kayn is useles as an advisor, that he just agrees with everything Illidan says, that is just an assumption some people made.
We do know that he is a team player and Altruis is not. Altruis is the one who thinks he knows better than everyone else and has the right to judge whom to sacrifice of his comrades.

[Donald Hellscream]

Altruis, Kayn seem way too edgelordey to me and he also seems to be the type of guy who would jump into a volcano if Illidan asked him to do it. In other words I picked the follower who can actually think for himself.

[Deleted]

If my DH is going against Legion, he need the trust of his brothers and sisters in arms... I simply cannot trust Altruis who turned his back on us and killed few of our members.

It is Akama and Altruis that are betrayers, not Illidan

[Eurhetemec]

No, Altruis believes he knows what to do to achieve this goal and that any means he deems necessary are justified--such as backstabbing his comrades--while Kayn knows it needs a group working together to achieve anything long term. We do not actually know that Kayn supposedly believes he can do whatever he wants (and wouldn't that be in direct contradiction of him being a yes man who blindly follows orders) when we make the choice between them. We know that Kayn wants to work in a group while Altruis wants a coup that places him in the position of power.

That's simply not true - there's no evidence Altruis wants to be in charge. Just that he doesn't want Illidan to be. There's a huge difference between those two things. You might even argue that's worse!

You're welcome to dislike him, but keep your facts straight.

As for Kayn, the huge, unaddressed issue remains, that being that he is loyal to Illidan first, and you second. So unless you are willing to blindly follow Illidan, there's going to be an issue later on. And if you're willing to blindly follow a man who had to be faceplanted by a raid group because he was such a total demon-hugging prat (some hunting - just check out Black Temple!), well...

I would strongly predict that the issue of Kayn being loyal to Illidan will come up later in this expansion, given it's basically certain Illidan will be back. Of course the issue might be - what if Illidan is back and reformed/nicer? Will Altruis still try and kill him? Will Kayn think Illidan has gone nuts?