Is there a point of playing a tank in PvP now?

[Saverem]

They get a damage mitigation penalty and nerfed self heals...


Soooo, why would anyone want to play a spec that survives about equal to a DPS and puts out less damage?

[Taeldorian]

Cant speak for other tanks, but prot pallies are pretty good in pvp for several reasons. Not sure about 3k, but Ive seen a lot around 2.4k on beta.

1. Control. If you take the talent that adds 4 seconds to steed along with a knockback to anyone you touch while on the steed and immunity to CC/snares you can easily knock people behind pillars out of LoS or off platforms out of LoS which is extremely helpful when dealing with RMD comps and anything that has a setup like that. Its just generally good and offers an insane amount of control.

2. Damage. The damage is a bit less than what a dps can do, but its not far off. You can put out some really good damage as prot, not as much as a dps, but a decent amount.

3. Survivability. This is a big thing. You can take a talent that allows you to bubble any of your teammates (and you still keep your own bubble}. This is extremely helpful when facing a counter comp or any comp that relies on putting out an insane amount of pressure through bursting. Having an extra bubble to use on a teammate (its not bop, its an actual bubble} is really helpful in situations like these. Theres also another talent that removes diseases and poisons whenever your healer heals. This helps vsing comps that are dot reliant.

4. Additional healing. This isnt as big as the first 3 points, but it can be extremely beneficial depending on the comps your vsing. Theres a few talents that cause healing done to you to be replicated to all of your teammates. This is beneficial but its not extremely good or required because its just extra healing which your healer should already be able to cover. It can help vsing certain comps, but its not as important.

Thats for arenas. For RBGs prot pallies so far seem to be the best choice for FC due to the knockback+extra 4 seconds+immunity that DS offers. You can also remove snares on yourself every time you use consecrate. Along with that, prot pally has really good DR. They will most likely be chosen as base defenders and flag carriers in RBGs.

[Krieger]

I think they should try and re-implement tank specializations for PvP. They can have them centered around low damage, high survivability, and high crowd control. This would be very fun. Plus, there are many ideas for how they could implement *taunt* mechanics into Player versus Player content.

I believe it was SWTOR where they made it so when you taunt an enemy player, they do 30%-50% extra damage to you for a certain period of time. Another idea would be that when you taunt a player, they can *only* do damage to the taunting player for a certain amount of time. Or maybe a CC oriented taunt mechanic that mind-controlled the taunted player into auto-attacking/casting, and following the tank for a certain period of time.

That would be very interesting and add a lot of variance to arena and rated battleground group compositions, and PvP combat as a whole.

[Soisoisoi]

They get a damage mitigation penalty and nerfed self heals...


Soooo, why would anyone want to play a spec that survives about equal to a DPS and puts out less damage?

Tanks should either NOT be in PvP at all, or do zero damage and just be an annoyance - which would never be viable in any sort of arena content. Either way means there is no point being a tank in PvP.

[Hoeth]

Tanks should either NOT be in PvP at all, or do zero damage and just be an annoyance - which would never be viable in any sort of arena content. Either way means there is no point being a tank in PvP.

Can you justify this belief with any rationality other than "they annoy me"?

[Saverem]

Tanks should either NOT be in PvP at all, or do zero damage and just be an annoyance - which would never be viable in any sort of arena content. Either way means there is no point being a tank in PvP.

Why roll tank then? Just roll a Rogue and be a BIG annoyance while also doing BIG deeps.

[Caolela]

Can you justify this belief with any rationality other than "they annoy me"?

Because the only role for a tank in PvP, if at all, should be as a FC or base defender, or for other utility such as CC; remember to "tank" damage, as in survivability. They should not put out anywhere near the damage of a DPS class or the self-heals of a healer - IOW, it should be just as hard for a tank to kill a DPS as it is for a DPS to kill a tank.

That's basic Game Design 101. Anything else is just wanting a faceroll, OP livelord that requires no skill or strategy.

[Soisoisoi]

Can you justify this belief with any rationality other than "they annoy me"?

Because IF they did the same damage as a DPS, and had the same survivability, why would anyone be a DPS? They wouldn't. How do you not see that?

Why roll tank then? Just roll a Rogue and be a BIG annoyance while also doing BIG deeps.

Exactly, you shouldn't. There is no reasonable place for a tank in PvP outside of being an annoyance whilst taking lots of damage. You cannot do the same damage WHILST also taking a shit-ton of damage or you get what we had early in Alpha/Beta, where Tanks were just one shotting everyone who WASN'T a tank, and nobody could do anything about it unless you were a tank, in which, you just whacked each other until one person got bored and AFKd. That is not fun gameplay.

[Hoeth]

They should not put out anywhere near the damage of a DPS class or the self-heals of a healer

Completely agreed, but this was never mentioned as a stipulation, only that "tanks should have no role", which I disagree with.

Ideally, high DPS = low survivability, and high survivability = low DPS, but we know things haven't always worked out this way, and not just with respect to tanks. That doesn't mean that tanks shouldn't have a role in PVP, only that attempts to balance them properly have never been made. They have either done too much damage in 2's and stomped people when they have to be killed, or too little damage and control in 3's to the point that they and could be ignored until the rest of the team was dead.

- - - Updated - - -

You cannot do the same damage WHILST also taking a shit-ton of damage or you get what we had early in Alpha/Beta, where Tanks were just one shotting everyone who WASN'T a tank, and nobody could do anything about it unless you were a tank, in which, you just whacked each other until one person got bored and AFKd. That is not fun gameplay.

I never said nor implied that they should.

[Snegovik]

-snip-
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100% this. Also imagine if 2x melee trainig ur healer, and healer stands on the edge and you pop ur Pony + bounce those 2x melee of the bridge or the edge , the peels are real for Prot Pally =)

I think tanks should have a minor roll in Rated PvP, like FC, i still believe that Tanks should be the best in game FC. Arena wise, as long as tanks die as easy as their dps part or maybe a bit tougher I don't see the issue with tanks being in Arena. They are already penalized with lower DPS, not that great of offheals, so only thing they have are mobility/OKish dmg/support/ OKish CC, i honestly dont see tanks being in tier 1 comp; hence, it is totally fine for me if tanks will be around 2.4-2.6k CR in Arena, what if tanks want to PvP? I find it silly forcing Tanks to roll dps with no artifact progression just to PvP; hence, tank should be a mid-pack PvP viable in my personal opinion.

[Terahertz]

Can you justify this belief with any rationality other than "they annoy me"?

Because tanks are either broken or useless. They also make arena games much slower.

Nobody wants to face a tank that's unkillable and also makes their allies unkillable due to utility and CC.

[Eruntien]

From what I heard blood might be decent for FC

[Rigrot]

Looking at the pvp talents tanks get a talent that allows their taunt to increase damage on a target. Some tanks specs has specific pvp talents their dps specs don't have that provide dps boosts for teammates or distractions for the enemy.

[solarfallz]

Can you justify this belief with any rationality other than "they annoy me"?

It doesn't really need any further justification. Even if tanks are "balanced" in that they have low damage to counter their high survivability, it's just not fun gameplay. I play video games to have fun. I play to kill and be killed, not to have a tickle-fight with a tank for 10 minutes, especially if it's like wrath/cata/mop where prot warriors have more CC than god himself and you don't get to play the game for 90% of the fight, then the 10% that you do get to play, you do no damage. Not fun.

[meob]

Disci/Brew is nice in BGs so far, less for doing big plays but it's been working really fine to 2man defend BS on AB all game long between peel/mobility a brew offers (para/KS slow/tigers lust) and the single target dps a disi can do (at 100 atleast). Also shadow mend spam when stagger eats the absorb.

[Leyre]

tanks (specially warr tanks) are DPS magnets

[Matt0193]

Can you justify this belief with any rationality other than "they annoy me"?

When Tanks are good, they're Blood DK pre-4.2 nerf good or Prot Warr in 3.2 or 3.3 when African Turtle Cleave was a thing. Either tanks do too much damage in relation to their survival or they do naff all damage in comparison to them simply functioning as meat walls. Blizzard summed it up well when they talked about Tanks in PvP either during WoD beta or shortly after WoD launched; When Tanks are having fun in PvP, no one else has fun in PvP.

If Tanks provided utility and controlled the flow of combat? That's fine. It works to an extent in other MMORPGs, notably SWTOR's Taunt system comes to mind, but even then it's limited and Tanks often verge into the classic design trap where basic numbers start to cause issues. Say a tank does 20% of the DPS's damage but has 20% more survival. That's fine, but inevitably they get buffed so it gets more like 10% less damage, 20% more survival. Just look at Tanks using PvE gear in Ashran before the pre-patch. A Single Prot Warrior with the legendary Ring could bladestorm stacked groups dead, solo. So could an Arms/Fury, but you could generally nuke them, Prots were untouchable in comparison if they popped CDs before leaping in.

[Christonya]

I think they should try and re-implement tank specializations for PvP. They can have them centered around low damage, high survivability, and high crowd control. This would be very fun. Plus, there are many ideas for how they could implement *taunt* mechanics into Player versus Player content.

I believe it was SWTOR where they made it so when you taunt an enemy player, they do 30%-50% extra damage to you for a certain period of time. Another idea would be that when you taunt a player, they can *only* do damage to the taunting player for a certain amount of time. Or maybe a CC oriented taunt mechanic that mind-controlled the taunted player into auto-attacking/casting, and following the tank for a certain period of time.

That would be very interesting and add a lot of variance to arena and rated battleground group compositions, and PvP combat as a whole.

Very fun for the tank, very anti fun for any one else. That's the primary problem with pure tanks in pvp, they take so little damage that you can't really focus them, they CC the hell out of you, so they're annoying, all while still dealing some amount of damage.

[Deleted]

Because tanks are either broken or useless. They also make arena games much slower.

Nobody wants to face a tank that's unkillable and also makes their allies unkillable due to utility and CC.

Because healers don't do that already?



Tanks rock in pvp. Healers with infinite mana are the issue. You'll wear down a tank eventually while healer just keeps healing.

[Hoeth]

Is it fun when healers run around pillars for 5 minutes after their partner(s) are dead?

Is it fun when you are caught in a 12 second CC chain and can't do anything about it?

Is it fun when you face a burst team that blows everything and kills you/your partner(s) through all of your defensive CD's in about 3 seconds?

I suspect the answer to these questions is going to be something along the lines of "play better scrub", which is probably somewhat valid. But if you are annoyed by your inability to kill a tank, wouldn't the same "play better scrub" answer apply to you as well?