15 Mythic "also could've potentially worked"

[Deleted]

No, killing off the popular format to save the unpopular one just because it was their favourite was a terrible decision and the reason the raiding scene suffered so heavily in WoD.

- - - Updated - - -


That goes without saying considering the community was quite adamant prior to WoD that if raids had to be a fixed number 15 was preferable to 20.

if was 15people would whine for say 12 or 10 if was that people would whine for even less. M is meant for very few people/guilds to do, cant get roster for it or arent good enough for it no Mythic for you or your guild

[Hotmail]

Twenty was always too much; most guilds who ran Heroic in WoD had a 2/4/7 (give or take a few additional public DPS) lineup which made the transition to Mythic unnecessarily tedious, since most Mythic bosses already required a much higher degree of coordination and planning than their Heroic counterparts.

It should have been seventeen or eighteen.

[Vestig3]

I dont like odd numbers and 10 is to low so 20 is perfect.

[Deleted]

Watcher from the Gamescom Developer Q&A (46 min in).

at the expense of all the 10 man raid guilds?

10 man guilds that never ought to have been eligible for equal ilvl gear in the first place, thus making them more attractive for people to play in as in almost every aspect, it is easier to do so, you mean? Blizzard sticking to their guns would have meant that Mythic was 25 man and not 20.

- - - Updated - - -

most guilds who ran Heroic in WoD had a 2/4/7.

They probably wouldn't manage Mythic difficulty anyway. If you cant recruit a full raid, you probably lack the determination to succeed at the highest level anyway.

[Hotmail]

They probably wouldn't manage Mythic difficulty anyway. If you cant recruit a full raid, you probably lack the determination to succeed at the highest level anyway.

That's faulty reasoning. Besides, most people who play an MMORPG aren't too big on the logistics of getting a group together in the first place.

It makes no sense to funnel people into raids following a certain (smaller) format and then nearly double the size of that format once the group is trying to advance.

[Baine]

The quote you supplied does not support 15 players is "sticking to their guns"

Yeah, he just said they considered it...

[caervek]

if was 15people would whine for say 12 or 10 if was that people would whine for even less. M is meant for very few people/guilds to do, cant get roster for it or arent good enough for it no Mythic for you or your guild

Can I get that in English please? Google translate isn't helping.

[cFortyfive]

Can I get that in English please? Google translate isn't helping.

Ez. If it was 15 players instead people would still be spilling tears why it can't be less. Mythic isn't supposed to be an easily accessible format.

[Deleted]

Id prefer 14/15 man.. Easyer to get good ppl/ full grps.

[Kikazz]

the main problem 10 man guilds had was to either die off, or combine with other guilds, that kind of ended up destroying them anyway.

25 mans, they didnt need to change much, they kept there roster of 25, and had a bench.

i went from 10 man raiding into mythic,

and without having that backbone of 25 raiders before mythic came out, it was fucking hard to get another 10+ people to join you and compete.

yes i did clear all content in Mythic during its prime, but it destroyed most 10 man guilds.

15 man mythic would have been less Brutal to 10 man guilds.

20 man mythic didnt really do much to 25 man guilds, as it opened there roster a bit more for flexibility and Benching.

10 man guilds got screwed over.

thats why the 10 man guilds complain, they were more or less told, "recruit or merge we dont care, adapt or dont your choice"

thats why old 10 man guilds complain, we want to be able to do the same content, without having to merge our communitys, or have to spend months trying to recruit to have people leave in the meantime cause we cant do mythic.

[RedNight at MMOC]

Since Mythic Raids are balance around the raid group having at least one of every class, as long as there are equal to or greater number of classes than the raid group limit it would probably work.

[Perkunas]

the main problem 10 man guilds had was to either die off, or combine with other guilds, that kind of ended up destroying them anyway.

25 mans, they didnt need to change much, they kept there roster of 25, and had a bench.

i went from 10 man raiding into mythic,

and without having that backbone of 25 raiders before mythic came out, it was fucking hard to get another 10+ people to join you and compete.

yes i did clear all content in Mythic during its prime, but it destroyed most 10 man guilds.

15 man mythic would have been less Brutal to 10 man guilds.

20 man mythic didnt really do much to 25 man guilds, as it opened there roster a bit more for flexibility and Benching.

10 man guilds got screwed over.

thats why the 10 man guilds complain, they were more or less told, "recruit or merge we dont care, adapt or dont your choice"

thats why old 10 man guilds complain, we want to be able to do the same content, without having to merge our communitys, or have to spend months trying to recruit to have people leave in the meantime cause we cant do mythic.

It's over now. I'm still angry that they got rid of niche roles, but they are gone and no amount of bitching, pissing, and moaning is going to bring back utility DPS. So we get over it and play or move on. We don't sit and throw a tantrum for 2 1/2 years at every opportunity.

[clevin]

Watcher from the Gamescom Developer Q&A (46 min in).

So it seems like they could have made 15 Mythic work if they really wanted to, but decided to go with 20 instead. Do you think that Blizzard made the right choice appeasing to 25 man raiders and choosing to go with the 20 man Mythic size so they had a more comfortable transition at the expense of all the 10 man raid guilds? Or should they have stuck to their guns and chosen 15?

15 was what I anticipated and what they should have done. Yes, if you're at 25 it's hard to cut down but there are several counter to that:

1) They'd been propping up 25s vs 10s for years. 10s were vastly more popular. So why pick a fixed size closer to the LESS popular size?

2) A 25 man raid likely has 27-30 people. While cutting 10 people would be hard, 25 man guilds could h ave simply added a few, maybe 5-7 and ended up with two mythic groups.

3) Contra #2, moving to 20 meant that a 10 man raid had to grow 100% vs growing 25% and ending up with 2 groups. Yes, they had the time, but it's much harder to double the size of a raid and maintain the same feeling. Adding, say, 7 people to a 27 person roster would have been easier.

4) 15 still lets them assume one of every class so they could have designed the raids around that principle still.

- - - Updated - - -

Ez. If it was 15 players instead people would still be spilling tears why it can't be less. Mythic isn't supposed to be an easily accessible format.

The answer to that is easy, though. They wanted the freedom to assume you could bring all classes if needed and 10 person doesn't allow that. 12 would but barely (you could not have any duplication at all) whereas 15 allows a little duplication and one of each class.

[Paulosio]

making it 15 would make bosses where u split up really hard to manage

Because it's an uneven number ? Wasn't an issue when raids were 25 player... And anyway if you needed to split up into 3 groups 20 players would give you the same issue while 15 wouldn't.

[Perkunas]

The answer to that is easy, though. They wanted the freedom to assume you could bring all classes if needed and 10 person doesn't allow that. 12 would but barely (you could not have any duplication at all) whereas 15 allows a little duplication and one of each class.

The answer I would have preferred was they left the Wrath model alone. 10-man being family focused fun and 25 being serious progression. This debate would have never happened, we'd never have had LFR, and there would be some exclusivity left in the raid game and a carrot for people to really aspire to instead of 4 unnecessary levels of raids and the years of massive balance issues and community fracturing caused by an idiotic decision in the first place. Shit was fine in Wrath for the most part.

[Elodeon]

I would have voted for 15-man, with great preference. 10-man can feel small, but 15-man feels large enough to be social, without feeling like everyone is an anonymous cogwheel.

20-man creates an undue threshold that's preventing many Heroic groups from graduating to Mythic. This shortens the life of the game for many raiders who like their smaller teams. The game pretty much ends when you've finished Heroic, since you can't even begin to do Mythic with the same team. If Mythic was 15-man, it would be much easier to graduate into it, which would be better for a lot of guilds, and better for the game.

[judgementofantonidas]

Ridiculous bs. Different formats have different standards.

sure. in difficulty only.

- - - Updated - - -

If there was just one taid it would either be too easy and boring for some and way to hard for others. Then we end up with a lot of people not raiding at all to make a select few happy.

I am not making a ludicrous suggestion such as heroic or bust, I am merely stating that cross server should be allowed in all or none. Flex should be allowed in all or none. Not one special little nook for the few that can jump the artificial road block.

[cFortyfive]

sure. in difficulty only.

Different standards and aspirations. Flex is for retard clownfiestas with zero demand for decent balanced encounters and pugs. Mythic isn't.

[Kikazz]

It's over now. I'm still angry that they got rid of niche roles, but they are gone and no amount of bitching, pissing, and moaning is going to bring back utility DPS. So we get over it and play or move on. We don't sit and throw a tantrum for 2 1/2 years at every opportunity.

im not having a tantrum, my point was i had adjusted, and moved into a bigger guild to achieve mythics with my mates, but closing the door on those that couldnt was a bit harsh, that is what i was saying.

it destroyed smaller communities, and forced them to break up or get absorbed.

wasnt throwing a "Tantrum", was stating a fact that most people who used to enjoy 10 man communities are most likely still feeling.

yeah i have adapted but some havent.

- - - Updated - - -

I would have voted for 15-man, with great preference. 10-man can feel small, but 15-man feels large enough to be social, without feeling like everyone is an anonymous cogwheel.

20-man creates an undue threshold that's preventing many Heroic groups from graduating to Mythic. This shortens the life of the game for many raiders who like their smaller teams. The game pretty much ends when you've finished Heroic, since you can't even begin to do Mythic with the same team. If Mythic was 15-man, it would be much easier to graduate into it, which would be better for a lot of guilds, and better for the game.

This and This

[cFortyfive]

sure. in difficulty only.

Different standards and aspirations. Flex is for retarded clownfiestas with zero demand for decent balanced encounters and pugs. Mythic isn't.

The answer to that is easy, though. They wanted the freedom to assume you could bring all classes if needed and 10 person doesn't allow that. 12 would but barely (you could not have any duplication at all) whereas 15 allows a little duplication and one of each class.

Merely explained the post as requested.

I would have voted for 15-man, with great preference. 10-man can feel small, but 15-man feels large enough to be social, without feeling like everyone is an anonymous cogwheel.

So five is the difference between anonymous cogwheel and social happy family atmosphere ?