Germany bans muslim teen from wearing niqab

[Wildtree]

why are you guys debating on obtuse misrepresentation?

The topic (ban of the attire) has nothing to do with the garment being a religious relic or not.
It has everything to do with being able to conceal a person's whole identity.

Last I've checked, people trying to hide behind or underneath kippahs and crosses failed miserably in doing so.
If they could, you can bet your asses, that they too would be subject of bans.

Much like ski masks, Racing helmets, etc etc.
Some shit you just cannot wear, in certain places, period..
Common sense.

[Machismo]

So you would be okay with your neighbours keeping their parents in the basement?
The thing im getting at is, although it might not be upsetting to you or me that someone is wearing a tent, that isn't to say that it can upset other people because of the culture clash that it is in this case. This is mostly because off the fact that it hides the face, that is the problem.

Culture isn't just "what people do" but it also consists of norms and value's, what we as a peoples deem to be "right". When something goes against this, even if it is just a group within this culture, the debate will follow until there is a consensus. Culture is what makes laws, it is because of our culture that we deem things to be inappropriate and make law to prevent this. This means that our law is a reflection of our culture, we only write things into law that are important enough for us to do so.

So, i think the "our culture" point is actually a great point, but, as you have pointed out to often used in the wrong way. It should not be about what is "their culture" but it should be about what we want to see in our culture.

And that is why slavery and government-mandated segregation were allowed to prosper. It's why gay and interracial marriages were banned. It's what led to the prohibition of alcohol and marijuana. It's why prostitution was made illegal, and it's why liquor stores are often closed on Sundays.

[Deleted]

And that is why slavery and government-mandated segregation were allowed to prosper. It's why gay and interracial marriages were banned. It's what led to the prohibition of alcohol and marijuana. It's why prostitution was made illegal, and it's why liquor stores are often closed on Sundays.

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And that is why slavery and government-mandated segregation were allowed to prosper. It's why gay and interracial marriages were banned. It's what led to the prohibition of alcohol and marijuana. It's why prostitution was made illegal, and it's why liquor stores are often closed on Sundays.

You forgot to scream the minimal 3 time freedom in this post. This is real random gibberish

[Machismo]

Again, you not understanding the difference between what "harm" means and what can be seen as harmful is totally on you, and your governments educational system.

Again, you cannot seem to understand the definition of a word.

There is a logical reason to ban a head covering in a school. Unfortunately, you are trying to base it off of culture, and not logic.

[Wildtree]

And that is why slavery and government-mandated segregation were allowed to prosper. It's why gay and interracial marriages were banned. It's what led to the prohibition of alcohol and marijuana. It's why prostitution was made illegal, and it's why liquor stores are often closed on Sundays.

Where?
I have a feeling you're all over the map now, just for the sake of being right.

[Deleted]

Again, you cannot seem to understand the definition of a word.

There is a logical reason to ban a head covering in a school. Unfortunately, you are trying to base it off of culture, and not logic.

Again, take it up with your government to spend more money on education, it is obviously needed.

[Machismo]

You forgot to scream the minimal 3 time freedom in this post. This is real random gibberish

At one point, all of those things were part of the "norms and values" of society.

Your "culture" argument is exactly what was used to justify the banning of all those things.

[Spl4sh3r]

I don't care what people are wearing. But for most things like exams and such they would need to remove it temporarily so you can identify them.

[Machismo]

Where?
I have a feeling you're all over the map now, just for the sake of being right.

The United States and most of Europe.

When using "culture" and "values" to justify laws, you are basing them on emotion, and not on logic. I'll stick with logic.

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Again, take it up with your government to spend more money on education, it is obviously needed.

I have, and I will continue to do so. The only thing standing in my way, is a large number of asshats who wish to force their "culture" onto everyone else.

[Deleted]

At one point, all of those things were part of the "norms and values" of society.

Your "culture" argument is exactly what was used to justify the banning of all those things.

And at one point society changed its ways, that is the beauty of this, it can change!! What i was saying is exactly the reason why these things are of the past, or at least, where i live. We have a set of value's that can be discussed, and when we deem something isn't all that good, we change it! The wonders, right!!
But that isn't to say that everything that is our culture is bad, it is still our culture, and we should make it so that it is something that most people can stand behind. (you will never make everyone happy)
If we deem that it is inappropriate for people to cover their face for the sake of not being seen, we make a rule about it. And if we don't find it inappropriate then we don't, but that is what discussion is for.

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The United States and most of Europe.

When using "culture" and "values" to justify laws, you are basing them on emotion, and not on logic. I'll stick with logic.

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I have, and I will continue to do so. The only thing standing in my way, is a large number of asshats who wish to force their "culture" onto everyone else.

If that is your only problem then you must have an easy life. But i fear there is something greater that stands in your way..

[Machismo]

And at one point society changed its ways, that is the beauty of this, it can change!! What i was saying is exactly the reason why these things are of the past, or at least, where i live. We have a set of value's that can be discussed, and when we deem something isn't all that good, we change it! The wonders, right!!
But that isn't to say that everything that is our culture is bad, it is still our culture, and we should make it so that it is something that most people can stand behind. (you will never make everyone happy)
If we deem that it is inappropriate for people to cover their face for the sake of not being seen, we make a rule about it. And if we don't find it inappropriate then we don't, but that is what discussion is for.

But that "culture" is what allowed it to exist in the first place. Congratulations, you finally got some things right. Here's a novel concept, don't fuck it up to begin with.

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And at one point society changed its ways, that is the beauty of this, it can change!! What i was saying is exactly the reason why these things are of the past, or at least, where i live. We have a set of value's that can be discussed, and when we deem something isn't all that good, we change it! The wonders, right!!
But that isn't to say that everything that is our culture is bad, it is still our culture, and we should make it so that it is something that most people can stand behind. (you will never make everyone happy)
If we deem that it is inappropriate for people to cover their face for the sake of not being seen, we make a rule about it. And if we don't find it inappropriate then we don't, but that is what discussion is for.

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If that is your only problem then you must have an easy life. But i fear there is something greater that stands in your way..

I do have a pretty great life, thanks for noticing.

[Wildtree]

The United States and most of Europe.

Neither the USA nor "most of Europe" apply here.
This is a thread about a report of one instance in Germany. With that, only German circumstance and law is applicable.
And...
Neither are liquor stores closed on Sunday, nor is prostitution illegal (for nearly 100 years), slavery long abolished, alcohol prohibition never existed to my knowledge either.
We could do better on the marijuana subject. It's still way too conservative handled.
The federal guideline of 5 - 6 grams possession counting as personal consumer stash, that isn't always respected by all states.
And gay rights could use a a little nudge too. Now that even the US caught up on the topic, we could complete the topic once and for all.

Further more, due to the unfortunate events of WWII, Germany ended up with one of the most current/modern constitutions around.
Though, the country is existing for nearly 2000 yrs, and it's tribes even longer, the legal constitution however exists since 1952.


So, nope.
Maybe stay on target, and leave all the other side battles aka countries out?

[Deleted]

But that "culture" is what allowed it to exist in the first place. Congratulations, you finally got some things right. Here's a novel concept, don't fuck it up to begin with.

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I do have a pretty great life, thanks for noticing.

No, it was not culture that allowed it to exist, there are a host of things that allowed all of those things to exist. But i must not be surprised that you would blame this solely on culture -.-
I think my fear is justified after all, ......... is bliss. But that is it, time to do useful stuff other then doing the work your government should have done.

[Deleted]

Wrong title, Germany hasn't banned anything.

[Belize]

I have, and I will continue to do so. The only thing standing in my way, is a large number of asshats who wish to force their "culture" onto everyone else.

It's not very nice to call Muslims asshats. Most of them are pretty cool people. Just because some of them want to firce their culture and dress codes on the countries they move to does not make them all asshats.

[Chemii]

Then educate people, I'm all for it. Education is by far the best means to solve oppression. That, and recognition that everyone deserves freedom.

Supporting one form of oppression to counter another form of oppression... is still oppression. That's how we ended up justifying locking up a bunch of Japanese-Americans during WWII. Yes, I support freedom, and that means allowing things that I may not like to exist. So long as an action does not cause harm, then I see no reason to restrict it. I am just as opposed to forcing women to wear it, as I am forcing them to not wear it.

That's my point though. Educating people on these practices will garner further support for a ban.

[Machismo]

Neither the USA nor "most of Europe" apply here.
This is a thread about a report of one instance in Germany. With that, only German circumstance and law is applicable.
And...
Neither are liquor stores closed on Sunday, nor is prostitution illegal (for nearly 100 years), slavery long abolished, alcohol prohibition never existed to my knowledge either.
We could do better on the marijuana subject. It's still way too conservative handled.
The federal guideline of 5 - 6 grams possession counting as personal consumer stash, that isn't always respected by all states.
And gay rights could use a a little nudge too. Now that even the US caught up on the topic, we could complete the topic once and for all.

Further more, due to the unfortunate events of WWII, Germany ended up with one of the most current/modern constitutions around.
Though, the country is existing for nearly 2000 yrs, and it's tribes even longer, the legal constitution however exists since 1952.


So, nope.
Maybe stay on target, and leave all the other side battles aka countries out?

You may want to go back and read the entire discussion. We were talking about culture and values of those places.

It all originated off of the discussion about basing laws off of culture.

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No, it was not culture that allowed it to exist, there are a host of things that allowed all of those things to exist. But i must not be surprised that you would blame this solely on culture -.-
I think my fear is justified after all, ......... is bliss. But that is it, time to do useful stuff other then doing the work your government should have done.

I didn't say it was ONLY culture, but that was the strongest component. Profit is another, yet that often only impacted a very small segment of the societies.

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It's not very nice to call Muslims asshats. Most of them are pretty cool people. Just because some of them want to firce their culture and dress codes on the countries they move to does not make them all asshats.

I didn't call all Muslims asshats, only the Muslim asshats who wish to oppress others. The same goes for any other asshat who wishes to oppress people.

[Cempa]

'Niqab' is worn by non Muslims also as it is cultural and not religious at all .. Niqab is only what people see, some of those tribes a husband is not allowed to see his wifes face .. EVER! Again, nothing to do with religion and sadly a product of brain washing youg girls into thinking they are the source of all sin in the world .. AGAIN nothing to do with religion .. Some of those very same tribes circumcise womens clitoris .. AGAIN nothing to do with religion ..

[lonely zergling]

Neither the USA nor "most of Europe" apply here.
This is a thread about a report of one instance in Germany. With that, only German circumstance and law is applicable.
And...
Neither are liquor stores closed on Sunday, nor is prostitution illegal (for nearly 100 years), slavery long abolished, alcohol prohibition never existed to my knowledge either.

Baden-Wuertemberg has a alcohol sale ban after 10pm. But they plan to allow it at all times atm. Thats the closest as it gets.

[Machismo]

That's my point though. Educating people on these practices will garner further support for a ban.

Then you are educating people to restrict the freedoms of others.


True education would show that they are outdated, and people would freely choose to no longer wear them.