Sooo, where do Blood DK tanks lie now?

[Deleted]

Right above Monks I would say.

Anyway what bugs me is I thought as a DK we were trading mobility for damage. But now I don't see the reason to be a DK over, say, a DH.

Also, I won't matter anyway. Blizzard will surely keep making changes to tanks on heroic week so I'm not sure if I want to gamble my choice of which class to play because hell, it might end up being dead last or the best tank in the game.

[redfella]

But now I don't see the reason to be a DK over, say, a DH.

How about steadier mitigation, smoother damage intake, stronger self healing while keeping relatively the same playstyle (reactive instead of proactive)?

This is a nerf to the damage output of one of our abilities, it's not the end of the DK as we know it. Thought if you were here purely because someone said we had the "Best X" instead of for enjoying how DK plays, then nobody gives af of what you feel recent nerfs have done to the class.

- - - Updated - - -

Trying to pick a tank based on strength is like playing the lottery. You probably aren't going to win. Play whatever you find more fun.

Damn straight.

[Khrux]

Though if you were here purely because someone said we had the "Best X" instead of for enjoying how DK plays, then nobody gives af of what you feel recent nerfs have done to the class.

Need this posted as a pop up when you click into the DK forums.

[Deleted]

How about steadier mitigation, smoother damage intake, stronger self healing while keeping relatively the same playstyle (reactive instead of proactive)?

This is a nerf to the damage output of one of our abilities, it's not the end of the DK as we know it. Thought if you were here purely because someone said we had the "Best X" instead of for enjoying how DK plays, then nobody gives af of what you feel recent nerfs have done to the class.

My point is I don't understand the role of the Blood DK in the tanking scene. I was under the impression that it was a strong burst AoE tank who traded mobility for damage output. Now that's not the case since our ST damage has been severely nerfed. Everyone who saw a Blood DK knew that a Blood Boil nerf was in the way but after all these past nerfs I can't see a reason for a whopping 39% nerf (specially considering it's only 1 week away from Legion). Also, when having a stronger self healing is due to the sub-par mitigation I don't think that's a good thing for the class itself. Go check raid logs from the beta and see how you compare to a warrior, for example.

[redfella]

My point is I don't understand the role of the Blood DK in the tanking scene.

Uhh, what "tanking scene"? There are a few different tank classes with varying #classfantasies. It's not some coherent complete graph where we have tanks in "all corners" of the spectrum.

The way I see it is that the DK "fantasy" is being a reactive self-healing tank that uses death and blood magic. No class fantasy designed by Blizzard has in it's description "Deals more damage than others because shitty mobility". The DK does not trade it's mobility for DPS, and if someone really believes so, they are in for a rude awakening. My reasoning for the tradeoff is having ranged interrupting, ranged stunning and the two different grip mechanics among other things. These tools are what makes us the best 5-man tank, but in raid situations they aren't so big.

We still are very raid viable due other things, and your argument of sub-par mitigation is (imho) wrong. Reactive healing is a part of it yes, but the other parts are having a steady reduction to physical and above average (by a larger margin) health pool. These help us keep alive so we can in fact use DS after a hit, and not be dead before that can happen. They are basicly tools to reduce the spikyness so that we can use our main source of "mitigation": DS.

DH for example struggles here since they do not have an increased health pool and steady mitigation to counter the spikyness reactive tanks have (DS does not have a 100% uptime and their HP is on the low side).

Noone is saying Warrior's aren't strong at the moment due Ignore Pain being so out of control. Further nerfs are surely coming before raids launch.

Edit: The question you want to ask from yourself is this: Do you enjoy the DK class mechanics or do you enjoy some other classes mechanics more. If you enjoy DK the most, play a DK - we are viable. If you simply want to play the cookie cutter tank that is strongest this month, you'll be looking at shitton of rerolling before first raid tier is out.

[Resurgo]

...

DH for example struggles here since they do not have an increased health pool and steady mitigation to counter the spikyness reactive tanks have (DS does not have a 100% uptime and their HP is on the low side).

Noone is saying Warrior's aren't strong at the moment due Ignore Pain being so out of control. Further nerfs are surely coming before raids launch.

Edit: The question you want to ask from yourself is this: Do you enjoy the DK class mechanics or do you enjoy some other classes mechanics more. If you enjoy DK the most, play a DK - we are viable. If you simply want to play the cookie cutter tank that is strongest this month, you'll be looking at shitton of rerolling before first raid tier is out.

Legion invasions gave me the opportunity to bring up several tanks to 710+

I wholly agree with the DH, however, the more I play it, the more I get angered at the overall picture of DK pruning and class changes. It almost feels like they get (reworked) much of our old toolkit, or (in the case of Gorefiends) lower cooldowns so they're available more often.

When looking at future raids, what concerns me more is that I'm seeing more movement mechanics to keep tanks busy and that tends to make it trivial or easy for them to handle vs making a DK's lives miserable. (Thinking Imperator style movement) Any of the other tanks I've leveled up could handle these mechanics easily (monk, warrior, DH) while just adding to our headache.

As much as I've enjoyed the DK for years, the varied toolkit from other tanks just seems like they might be more effective in various scenarios over the DK. We aren't going to be as smooth to heal as a monk (though I admittedly really really suck as a Brewmaster), we don't have near the (current?) effectiveness as a Warrior. We don't bring the varied toolkit like we used to that the DH now enjoys. Damage isn't going to be our forte. We definitely won't be able to handle the movement mechanics in raids as well as any other tank. It's just really hard for me to picture anything we're particularly good at.

[HTowN]

No other tank spec has mass grip. Just saying.

[Katsutomai]

No other tank spec has mass grip. Just saying.

Could be wrong but I'm 99% sure that DH's get a Mass Grip. Works similar to DK's but instead of targeted it's placed on the floor and activates after a set amount of time gripping stuff in to it.

[Museigen]

I see the comment about Blood being the best 5 man tank pretty often, what makes it the best 5 man tank? I'm not disagreeing, I just want to know why it's commented as often as it is.

[redfella]

I see the comment about Blood being the best 5 man tank pretty often, what makes it the best 5 man tank? I'm not disagreeing, I just want to know why it's commented as often as it is.

TL;DR; Ranged interrupt, grip & mass grip.

[Hashcrypt]

I see the comment about Blood being the best 5 man tank pretty often, what makes it the best 5 man tank? I'm not disagreeing, I just want to know why it's commented as often as it is.

Used to be high dps...but Blizz had a different opinion.

[P for Pancetta]

Welp, now we know who to blame! lol

Kill the messenger!

[Museigen]

TL;DR; Ranged interrupt, grip & mass grip.

That sounds a good bit more like convenience than "best tank for 5 mans." Sure on certain encounters (lei shen) mass grip was pivotal but overall I feel like it's more of a comfort thing then an advantage. However, I have *only* tanked as a DK so I have never NOT had grip, maybe it's a case of you don't know what you got till it's gone?

[Exerionx]

The new DH tank feels like the old DK tank to me. Much prefer it to the new blood.

[Resurgo]

No other tank spec has mass grip. Just saying.

Problem with that, is that Demon Hunters can get mass grip AND it's a shorter cooldown. The implementation is different, as you have to place it in a spot, but that's not a huge difference. We get it baseline at 3 minutes for a cooldown, and talented to 2. Demon Hunters talent into it and get it at a 1 minute cooldown.

TL;DR; Ranged interrupt, grip & mass grip.

Demon Hunters get a ranged silence as well as a ranged mass "fear", as well as their single target interrupt to go with their mass grip.

The only thing they're missing is a way to bring a single target to them, but they can always heroic leap *shrug*

[fled]

Decided to drop Blood as a filthy casual, and pick back up my Warrior. Based on my noob data (Invasion end bosses and mini-bosses without heals), Warrior is a A LOT harder to kill than Blood at 100 sans-artifacts. In fact I would say I survived more often than not. I am sure Blood is more than enough for my LFR needs these days, but just Warrior feels sturdier.

[HTowN]

SO if DH is better is every way, the real question is: why are you still here?

[IIamaKing]

Yea just did some googlefu...wtf???? 50% nerf?

So we have the mobility of Stephen Hawking, our self healing is outclassed by DH's, and now our DPS is average at best?

Getting easier and easier for me to switch to my Prot Warrior full time.

I did, and its GREAT over here.

[Deleted]

Demon Hunters get a ranged silence as well as a ranged mass "fear", as well as their single target interrupt to go with their mass grip.

The only thing they're missing is a way to bring a single target to them, but they can always heroic leap *shrug*

www.wowhead.com/spell=202138/sigil-of-chains
Radius : 8 yards
It's the size of death and decay, gorefiend grasp is far better.

[Resurgo]

www.wowhead.com/spell=202138/sigil-of-chains
Radius : 8 yards
It's the size of death and decay, gorefiend grasp is far better.

far better is relative, however, after reading it again, did they change that sigil recently? I could've sworn it was originally on a 1 minute cooldown. What that reads right now would at least make it relatively on par with Gorefiends at the very least.


edit:
ahh, I went back to double check. Looks like they moved the sigil off the talent tree and into baseline. When it was on the talent tree (last I remembered) it was a 1 minute cooldown.