"The Void is a more potent foe by far than the Burning Legion"

[Deleted]

The Void Lords belong to another dimension. Thus, comparing their native power with anything from our dimension doesn't make sense.

In our dimension, they're strong in proportion to the things they corrupt. They're envious of the Titans power because the Titans are the strongest being of our universe. Murlocs would be the strongest being of our universe, then the Void Lords would be envious of Murlocs.

[Qualia]

The Void Lords belong to another dimension. Thus, comparing their native power with anything from our dimension doesn't make sense.

In our dimension, they're strong in proportion to the things they corrupt. They're envious of the Titans power because the Titans are the strongest being of our universe. Murlocs would be the strongest being of our universe, then the Void Lords would be envious of Murlocs.

I'm sure that this is wrong, or at least, unfounded. At least, I can't find anything indicated that was the case. It's like saying the demons - who belongs to the Twisting Nether - are less powerful in the Great Dark Beyond, it's not true. We know, for example, that they (the Void Lords) have their forms and are powerful before corrupting anything from when they manifested in our universe and attempted to corrupt the Titans. Nowhere was it stated that they grew stronger in proportion to things they corrupt.

[Deleted]

Nowhere was it stated that they grew stronger in proportion to things they corrupt.

That's not what I was trying to say.

The Void isn't comparable to the Twisting Nether. The Void is outside of Reality, which is why its frontier is called the Edge of Reality (http://wow.gamepedia.com/Edge_of_Reality). The Twisting Nether isn't. You can invoke demons from the Twisting Nether, and they will be fine. Void Lords however can only manifest in Reality for a short time (Chronicle), as if they were actively rejected by the fundamental structures of Reality itself. That's why they corrupt things of our universe.

Their situation might be totally different in the Void. We don't know for sure, and it doesn't really concern us anyway.

[Moozart]

Spoken by a Naaru, possibly the oldest one still in existence. Page 263 of Illidan.

There are already some early Dev screenshots of the Void Expac.

[Yunru]

I always wondered if this void is same as starcraft one. In other words it connects 2 universes.

(wow universe) (----) Twisting universe /=/ Void /=/ Space (----) Starcraft universe


http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Void

[Aucald]

I always wondered if this void is same as starcraft one. In other words it connects 2 universes.

(wow universe) (----) Twisting universe /=/ Void /=/ Space (----) Starcraft universe


http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Void

The Void in the Warcraft universe is less an interface between realms (this is actually the purpose of the Twisting Nether) and more consolidated areas where the primordial Light had diffused or attenuated into nothingness. The Void is essentially volatile concentrations of necrotic Shadow energy, and the Void Lords are the sentience that developed in this kind of environment. The physical universe is a pretty equal or stable mixture of essences, and the Twisting Nether is a chaotic realm of unbalanced energies in continual flux.

[Deleted]

How come the Titan Pantheon is considered truly dead, while Sargeras is considered alive? Let's compare them.

- The Titan Pantheon lost their lives, their bodies destroyed by a fel storm, their spirits inhabiting Titan Keepers, but are said to not exist anymore in any form.
- Sargeras lost his life and his body when the Well of Eternity imploded while he was being summoned to Azeroth, his spirit inhabiting Aegwynn's womb/Medivh, and was considered truly dead(/missing?) when Medivh was killed.

How come the Titan Pantheon and Sargeras experience pretty much the same thing while one survives, and the others don't? Is it because Sargeras' soul is tuned to the Twisting Nether? But then how come he didn't come back to life earlier? How come Kil'jaeden claimed the Burning Legion for himself, talking as if Sargeras didn't exist anymore back in TBC? It just doesn't add up.

Also, if fel is stronger than arcane magic (see how the Titan Pantheon got owned by Sargeras) then how come Khadgar stands a chance against Gul'dan? Shouldn't fel easily overpower arcane similarly to the Titan Pantheon/Sargeras battle? Plotholes?

All I can conclude is that Blizzard likes to change their mind halfway through something. Retcons, retcons everywhere.

[Qualia]

How come the Titan Pantheon is considered truly dead, while Sargeras is considered alive? Let's compare them.

- The Titan Pantheon lost their lives, their bodies destroyed by a fel storm, their spirits inhabiting Titan Keepers, but are said to not exist anymore in any form.
- Sargeras lost his life and his body when the Well of Eternity imploded while he was being summoned to Azeroth, his spirit inhabiting Aegwynn's womb/Medivh, and was considered truly dead(/missing?) when Medivh was killed.

How come the Titan Pantheon and Sargeras experience pretty much the same thing while one survives, and the others don't? Is it because Sargeras' soul is tuned to the Twisting Nether? But then how come he didn't come back to life earlier? How come Kil'jaeden claimed the Burning Legion for himself, talking as if Sargeras didn't exist anymore back in TBC? It just doesn't add up.

Also, if fel is stronger than arcane magic (see how the Titan Pantheon got owned by Sargeras) then how come Khadgar stands a chance against Gul'dan? Shouldn't fel easily overpower arcane similarly to the Titan Pantheon/Sargeras battle? Plotholes?

All I can conclude is that Blizzard likes to change their mind halfway through something. Retcons, retcons everywhere.

For one, I don't think anyone considered the Pantheon "truly dead", is there? Also, again, with the new lore from Chronicle, Sargeras doesn't seem to be losing his body any longer. WoTA established that he was stuck when the portal was collapsing, then ceased to be and lost his body. Chronicle (+ Warlock artifact item), on the other hand, only say that Sargeras was ripped back into the Nether with other demons (you can see the quotes in my last post).

Moreover, while Fel is more destructive, it doesn't mean every fel users are more powerful than every arcane magic user. Khadgar was stronger than Gul'dan (before he was empowered) because he was just that strong. It's like how a sword is stronger than a hard plastic stick, but a 30 years old martial artist using a stick can beat a 12 years old kid using a sword. Personal expertise and strength matters, too - and apparently Khadgar is better than AU Gul'dan in both. Additionally, fel didn't "easily overpower arcane" in the Pantheon vs Sargeras battle. The Pantheon lost to Sargeras because they were stated to be "uniquely susceptible to fel" (+ Sargeras was the best / most experienced fighter among them), not (just) because Fel was *that much more* powerful than Arcane. Khadgar, fortunately, doesn't have that weakness and isn't that susceptible to fel.

Edit: also, I'm pretty sure I've never seen it stated anywhere official that the Pantheon's spirits don't exist anymore. Who said that?

[Deleted]

Titans, except Sageras, are all dead.
Old Gods cannot be killed without hurting Azeroth.

It's basically the forces of Azeroth and the Naaru VS the Legion and the Void.

Old gods can easily be killed without hurting Azeroth... we the players did it, twice. Only the Titans couldn't kill them without hurting Azeroth, because it involved them ripping the parasites from Azeroth and slamming them back down again...

And yes, OP, the void (NOT the old gods), is a more potent foe than the Burning Legion.

[Golden Yak]

For one, I don't think anyone considered the Pantheon "truly dead", is there?

Chronicles sort've makes it sound that way. The last few scraps of their spirits made it to the Keepers, but it seemed like most of the Keepers didn't even realize what had happened except for Ra. I guess you could say that the last bits of the Titans are within the Keepers, but that's pretty close to totally destroyed.

[Qualia]

Chronicles sort've makes it sound that way. The last few scraps of their spirits made it to the Keepers, but it seemed like most of the Keepers didn't even realize what had happened except for Ra. I guess you could say that the last bits of the Titans are within the Keepers, but that's pretty close to totally destroyed.

Yeah, I agree with you. However, some bits and pieces are still there, so I wouldn't say they are "truly dead". I won't be surprised if in the (probably far) future, we'd be trying to revive / reawaken those spirits to gain their powers / blessings temporarily to fight against Sargeras. Just a theory, but that's probably how we'd be able to fight against him at all, unless Blizzard want to nerf Sargeras to our level (but it wouldn't be as cool!).

[Auxora]

Lots in the Legion story we know so far, Chronicles, and the Illidan book (plus all prior lore) pointing to a showdown with the Void Lords after (assuming) the Legion is dealt with. My bet would be either a trip to Argus expansion after Legion to finish them off, or off to the Void Lords next. The Argus first would make more sense though. It would also from a game standpoint be a chance to go to a new world after squeezing about as much out of Azeroth as we could...barring "the other side of Azeroth" theory or yet more undiscovered/lost/sunken islands.

[Aucald]

How come the Titan Pantheon is considered truly dead, while Sargeras is considered alive? Let's compare them.

- The Titan Pantheon lost their lives, their bodies destroyed by a fel storm, their spirits inhabiting Titan Keepers, but are said to not exist anymore in any form.
- Sargeras lost his life and his body when the Well of Eternity imploded while he was being summoned to Azeroth, his spirit inhabiting Aegwynn's womb/Medivh, and was considered truly dead(/missing?) when Medivh was killed.

How come the Titan Pantheon and Sargeras experience pretty much the same thing while one survives, and the others don't? Is it because Sargeras' soul is tuned to the Twisting Nether? But then how come he didn't come back to life earlier? How come Kil'jaeden claimed the Burning Legion for himself, talking as if Sargeras didn't exist anymore back in TBC? It just doesn't add up.

Also, if fel is stronger than arcane magic (see how the Titan Pantheon got owned by Sargeras) then how come Khadgar stands a chance against Gul'dan? Shouldn't fel easily overpower arcane similarly to the Titan Pantheon/Sargeras battle? Plotholes?

All I can conclude is that Blizzard likes to change their mind halfway through something. Retcons, retcons everywhere.

There's a bit of a disconnect between the current lore (as of Chronicle) and the previous lore established both in-game and in the tie-in novels. If Titans are truly planet sized amalgamations of energy and essence, I don't think Sargeras would've been able to pass through the Well of Eternity in his actual body - it's more likely only a portion of his being or an avatar would've came across. This means his "destruction" in the portal's collapse wouldn't have destroyed him, although it might've harmed him and caused him to be unable to coalesce properly for a time. Same for the circumstances of his "death" while inhabiting Medivh's soul - it seemed to just exile him into the Nether in a state where he couldn't command the Legion.

As for Fel, it kind of comes down to the personal power of the user, not quite the intrinsic power of the energy. The Titans were uniquely susceptible to the Fel due to their makeup (excepting Sargeras himself), which made it ideal to effect their destruction. Khadgar and Gul'dan seem to be pretty evenly matched as spellcasters - although I might award the slightest edge to Gul'dan if the were ever to duel man-to-man.

[Kallisto]

If I am not mistaken we haven't faced an old god yet. We have faced like, avatars of them. Is this correct?

Nope we faced them (C'thun and Yogg)

C'thun was free and at at least most of his strength
Yogg only had one more chain to break before becoming free.

We outright killed them both.
Killing them both was a major cause of the Cataclysm, via the elemental unrest and earthquakes (Which started the same day ICC opened up)

All of this was mentioned at Blizzcon a few years back.

[Deleted]

The Void Lords belong to another dimension. Thus, comparing their native power with anything from our dimension doesn't make sense.

In our dimension, they're strong in proportion to the things they corrupt. They're envious of the Titans power because the Titans are the strongest being of our universe. Murlocs would be the strongest being of our universe, then the Void Lords would be envious of Murlocs.

Titans weren't that strong if they all got rekt by single a fel storm.

I'm fairly sure that Light and Void pisses all over the titans at any point.

But just like the void, I think the light can't properly manifest in the physical realm either.

[Qualia]

Titans weren't that strong if they all got rekt by single a fel storm.

I'm fairly sure that Light and Void pisses all over the titans at any point.

But just like the void, I think the light can't properly manifest in the physical realm either.

A fel storm that big enough to cover many planets. I'm sure every non-Titan characters we know of so far - both protagonists and antagonists - died to much less.

(Also, no lore ever stated that Azshara's power ever rivaled Archimonde / KJ, much less Sargeras. But I'm too lazy to correct you in the other thread)

[Punisher069]

A fel storm that big enough to cover many planets. I'm sure every non-Titan characters we know of so far - both protagonists and antagonists - died to much less.

(Also, no lore ever stated that Azshara's power ever rivaled Archimonde / KJ, much less Sargeras. But I'm too lazy to correct you in the other thread)

If I remember right it was Mannoroth that mentioned that he thought she rivaled Archi/KJ in strength, but I'll just get my boyfriend to confirm. He can probably read that book series from memory.

[Deleted]

I think the constant escalation of Big and Bad is not exactly a good thing for the franchise. Players have gone from being local adventurers solving local problems, to facing down threats to the world, to solving the problems of the multiverse. It's hard to go back to a more grounded story after that.

On the other hand, this type of progression is kind of a tradition passed down from Pen and Paper RPGs. Hell, in recent D&D sets that sentence has been used almost ad verbatim

[Zechs-cenarius]

I am going to laugh my ass off if it turns out that Sargeras did not in fact go bat shit crazy but rather came to the revelation that he must "unite" all of creation against the void. Thus making the legion and assimilating only strong races in a desperate attempt to put an end to the void lol.....

Sargeras killing other titans?? Think of it as some sort of screwy version of Jet Li's 'The One' but wow style hahaha.

One can only dream I guess hahaha.

[Frozenbeef]

I'm pretty sure Xe'ra is just batshit crazy.

Holy demon hunters from space and void lords stronger than the burning legion and titan planets!!!!

all makes sense..... :s