Fire mage is too easy?

[Deleted]

Mages are strong like hm...let me think.....for the past couple of years lol

[LordAmbrosia]

yes true, but some specs like affliction will punish lesser players harder

You wut m8. Affliction hard? Lol its a dirt simple static rotation, no procs, no rotation changes from cooldowns, just maintain dots. With mouseover dots, even using soul effigy is super easy. Demonology is much more complex than affliction, about on par with Frost mage.

[fearer]

Well, again. Blizzards idea behind the class chnages in Legion was that every class should have strengths and weaknesses. Fire has no weaknesses at all.
If Blizzards vission is fun or not is subjective, fire being better than everything else is not.

mages were THE DPS in like every content. mages can only do dps and were like this for ever. they got literally no utility for the raid. (bloodlust but shaman can bring it too and it doesnt stack)

yes true, but some specs like affliction will punish lesser players harder. It is still easier, because EVERYTHING got streamlined, but being a good fire mage is like a guarantee as soon as you create the character.

I doubt we will see any bad fire mages with LEGION because you can facerofl the keyboard and still outdamage good players.

( no offense to players who are actually good and play fire mage )

if you want to be a good fire mage it is simply not that easy. i think affliction is simpler tbh. you just have to dot everything and this doesnt change in any encounter. try to do split aoe dmg as fire mage and you will cry.

[Aggrophobic]

mages were THE DPS in like every content. mages can only do dps and were like this for ever. they got literally no utility for the raid. (bloodlust but shaman can bring it too and it doesnt stack)

So you're saying that because the game used to be unbalanced, it needs to be unbalanced now? Thats just stupid.
Also, mages haven't been this far ahead when it comes to mechanics befor. This is a new low for Blizzard.

Also, other ranged classes does not have more utility. Not ever will you pick a shaman over a mage, in any situation.

[Deleted]

To be fair if you're hitting dummies or patchwerk, which is also what the simulator usually does, you're not really talking about the full game. A simpler spec design is probably warranted after the encounters have become very complex. Right now even on normal mode raiding, at least a few bosses are a whole conglomerate of abilities, phases and sub-phases which is a departure to how wow was as you go further back.

[fearer]

So you're saying that because the game used to be unbalanced, it needs to be unbalanced now? Thats just stupid.
Also, mages haven't been this far ahead when it comes to mechanics befor. This is a new low for Blizzard.

Also, other ranged classes does not have more utility. Not ever will you pick a shaman over a mage, in any situation.

which mechanics are you talking about? dps ? we are not the best dps as far as i know. raid utility? we got literally none. Maybe movement? Yeah its quite okay double blink.

i remember wod start where i had a hunter which would literally be top dps and best movement in one character. i dont get your point.

[Aggrophobic]

which mechanics are you talking about? dps ? we are not the best dps as far as i know. raid utility? we got literally none. Maybe movement? Yeah its quite okay double blink.

i remember wod start where i had a hunter which would literally be top dps and best movement in one character. i dont get your point.

You are the strongest caster both in AOE and singel (maybe on par with priest), you have the best raid utility in the game (heroism/bloodlust), you have the best movement and survivability of all casters.

[GwiGwi]

You are the strongest caster both in AOE and singel (maybe on par with priest), you have the best raid utility in the game (heroism/bloodlust), you have the best movement and survivability of all casters.

They amount of bullshit you spew is hilarious.

Single target: demo
2 target cleave: destro
Spread out cleave / multi target: any Warlock spec/boomkin/spriest are MILES ahead. The only thing a fire mage can do is cast a fireball on each to put up the conflag debuff. Which is less than a 1% dps increase and not even worth doing.
Movement: BM

Just stop posting nonsense, fire does a lot of things well. However, it's nowhere close to being the strongest range at everything.

[HTowN]

So instead of thinking of a way to make other classes better, some ppl just want to nerf fire (or mage in general) so that when everything is equally bad, balance is achieved.

Hilarious really... I smell salt and envy.

[Aggrophobic]

They amount of bullshit you spew is hilarious.

Single target: demo
2 target cleave: destro
Spread out cleave / multi target: any Warlock spec/boomkin/spriest are MILES ahead. The only thing a fire mage can do is cast a fireball on each to put up the conflag debuff. Which is less than a 1% dps increase and not even worth doing.
Movement: BM

Just stop posting nonsense, fire does a lot of things well. However, it's nowhere close to being the strongest range at everything.

Warlock, really? Where do you get that crap from? The pre-patch balance is not something you should look at. Thats like saying frost DK is the best spec ever because they do well at level 78.
I would not call BM a caster but you're right that they do have better movement. They are rather weak though, besides that.

[HTowN]

I would not call BM a caster but you're right that they do have better movement. They are rather weak though, besides that.

You wut mate?

BM rotation is boring, but they are anything but weak.

[Aggrophobic]

So instead of thinking of a way to make other classes better, some ppl just want to nerf fire (or mage in general) so that when everything is equally bad, balance is achieved.

Hilarious really... I smell salt and envy.

So you want to redesign all other classes a week befor the release? Sounds unlikely.
It's not so much salt as we can all roll a mage. It's annoying that you need to roll a mage if you want to fill a ranged role though.

[HTowN]

So you want to redesign all other classes a week befor the release? Sounds unlikely.
It's not so much salt as we can all roll a mage. It's annoying that you need to roll a mage if you want to fill a ranged role though.

So you want to break a class with great design a week before release?

Hunter? Last time I check hunter is still mandatory for raiding.

[Deleted]

Hmm, so a class with insane synergy between abilities, diverse talent choices and can perform in almost any situation is a bad design. .

It's a bad design in a game where the stated intent is to not have a single class/spec that is that good, and it is bad design where many other classes/specs are inferior

If everyone else was that good, no problem, they clearly aren't, and it's unhealthy to have fire mages be strong at everything for people playing other classes alongside them.

[Aggrophobic]

So you want to break a class with great design a week before release?

Hunter? Last time I check hunter is still mandatory for raiding.

Really? Why's that?

[HTowN]

Really? Why's that?

Mobile, misdirection, turtle... and dps is still great.

[Nethlord]

So in this world view, damage done should be inversely proportion to quality of design. The higher the quality of the design the lower the damage output should be.

Under this system a ret paladin would one shot Sargeras...they'd still be miserable for doing so.

I can understand calls for balancing damage, but I won't accept calls for a nerf hammer just because the Fire Mage plays very well.

Well that's a strawman argument if I ever saw one. By your own estimate you just confirmed that Mages have been perfectly designed and because so they deserve to be overpowered, adversely confirming a development bias Blizzard has for the class and spec. It can then be inferred that Warlock are so terrible right now because the design is so god awful they deserve to have equally god awful dps?

How about they (Blizzard) is so damn bad at development of classes and specs for this game each time of these arguments crop up, it just confirms the shite job they do FOR THIS GAME ALONE. It's done on purpose, class development is not beyond their scope under the Blizzard Umbrella. Look at overwatch, a game with classes so balanced and turned to near perfection, it makes me envious that design so meticulous, so well thought-out, so forward thinking is put there, but not the 10+year well-oiled machine that is World of Warcraft.

This just leads to a point i've personally made here and the official WoW forums; all the class imbalances...are done on purpose for the sake of keeping gameplay rickety under our feet all the time so it makes content FEEL organic and relevant. That might have worked in the past....but after years of it, I for one am sick of it. I want that class to work, be competitive with every other class, but be able to do it within the tool kit of the class I chose. I don't want to be overpower, or underpowered. I don't want to choose between being aoe/cleave/single target, I should be able to do all of that out the gate...with specialization talents making some of those things better without giving up something in return (better at aoe, but not lose single target for it.) Specialized talents are meant to BUFF something, not adversely kill off something else (or mulitple things). Fire mages are amazing at everything at base, with talents from top to bottom that buff everything all at once with zero downsides. I've been messing around with one during invasions. He's in all invasion gear right now (other than an offhand that is 661) I can burst for 72k dps...in blue 700 gear and no gems (but enchanted and no ring) single target. My 720 demo lock....67kdps single target burst (and that's with the ring bumped up to I think 750 and pots...)

This is the line we are all standing at right now. Blizzard has to stop with this kind of design. I want well thought out changes now for my class, not lazy percentile buffs and nerfs to talents. They need to stop and rework talents and specs. Warlocks are designed so bad right now, I can't even bring myself to log in on mine. Demo, A spec I have played nearly the entire 11 years I have been in this game...is designed so absurdly, I am quite shocked it got this far looking like this.

[Aggrophobic]

Mobile, misdirection, turtle... and dps is still great.

The mechanically stronger marksman spec has about the same movement as a fire mage if not a bit worse so I'm not sure about movement. Thats a BM thing. Misdirection is not mandatory at all, neither is turtle. You can have a rogue and even a mage use their immunes to cheese stuff.

Not saying you can't bring hunters but they are not at all mandatory and not as strong as mages right now.

[LordAmbrosia]

all the class imbalances...are done on purpose for the sake of keeping gameplay rickety under our feet all the time so it makes content FEEL organic and relevant.

I'm curious as to what you mean by this. How does class imbalance make things feel this way? I do agree that it doesn't seem that hard to make specs closer together. They have data from alpha, from beta, from the raid tests with normalized gear, from sims... Like its so painfully obvious that Frost is lacking but they didn't touch it at all yesterday.

[fearer]

They amount of bullshit you spew is hilarious.

Single target: demo
2 target cleave: destro
Spread out cleave / multi target: any Warlock spec/boomkin/spriest are MILES ahead. The only thing a fire mage can do is cast a fireball on each to put up the conflag debuff. Which is less than a 1% dps increase and not even worth doing.
Movement: BM

Just stop posting nonsense, fire does a lot of things well. However, it's nowhere close to being the strongest range at everything.

this is just the truth. fire mage is good in everything but not the best in everything right now. whoever says otherwise is just salty and wants fire to be nerfed.

Well that's a strawman argument if I ever saw one. By your own estimate you just confirmed that Mages have been perfectly designed and because so they deserve to be overpowered, adversely confirming a development bias Blizzard has for the class and spec. It can then be inferred that Warlock are so terrible right now because the design is so god awful they deserve to have equally god awful dps?

How about they (Blizzard) is so damn bad at development of classes and specs for this game each time of these arguments crop up, it just confirms the shite job they do FOR THIS GAME ALONE. It's done on purpose, class development is not beyond their scope under the Blizzard Umbrella. Look at overwatch, a game with classes so balanced and turned to near perfection, it makes me envious that design so meticulous, so well thought-out, so forward thinking is put there, but not the 10+year well-oiled machine that is World of Warcraft.

This just leads to a point i've personally made here and the official WoW forums; all the class imbalances...are done on purpose for the sake of keeping gameplay rickety under our feet all the time so it makes content FEEL organic and relevant. That might have worked in the past....but after years of it, I for one am sick of it. I want that class to work, be competitive with every other class, but be able to do it within the tool kit of the class I chose. I don't want to be overpower, or underpowered. I don't want to choose between being aoe/cleave/single target, I should be able to do all of that out the gate...with specialization talents making some of those things better without giving up something in return (better at aoe, but not lose single target for it.) Specialized talents are meant to BUFF something, not adversely kill off something else (or mulitple things). Fire mages are amazing at everything at base, with talents from top to bottom that buff everything all at once with zero downsides. I've been messing around with one during invasions. He's in all invasion gear right now (other than an offhand that is 661) I can burst for 72k dps...in blue 700 gear and no gems (but enchanted and no ring) single target. My 720 demo lock....67kdps single target burst (and that's with the ring bumped up to I think 750 and pots...)

This is the line we are all standing at right now. Blizzard has to stop with this kind of design. I want well thought out changes now for my class, not lazy percentile buffs and nerfs to talents. They need to stop and rework talents and specs. Warlocks are designed so bad right now, I can't even bring myself to log in on mine. Demo, A spec I have played nearly the entire 11 years I have been in this game...is designed so absurdly, I am quite shocked it got this far looking like this.

you are so salty it makes me cry too. mages are NOT OP they are good at everything! so they are on the upper ranks at dps with st and aoe and so on. but they are not number 1 like you are saying.

why should a class be bad at everything if he is not a master of anything.