[Prot] WoD/Legion Alpha Discussion

[Hashcrypt]

That was me, and it's not really a secret. I was just being facetious. Prot paladin has ridiculously good mitigation and extremely good self healing. Slootbag, (tank for Serenity, AKA old Method) is planning on maining paladin for EN progression. People think warrior and druid are OP still when in reality they just stopped paying attention to how the tanking meta has changed with the last round of hotfixes. I wouldn't actually say we're OP, just extremely solid and arguably the best by a small margin.

Hmm. Stuff like this just keeps making my decision on mains for Legion harder and harder, lol.

[OrcsRLame]

Hmm. Stuff like this just keeps making my decision on mains for Legion harder and harder, lol.

All the tanks, even Brewmaster, (which is the worst tank atm) are close enough in dps, tmi and dtps, that realistically you should just play whatever you enjoy more unless you're in a top 10 guild. Like, the tanks are way way closer to each other than they were in WoD.

[Marrilaife]

All the tanks, even Brewmaster, (which is the worst tank atm) are close enough in dps, tmi and dtps, that realistically you should just play whatever you enjoy more unless you're in a top 10 guild. Like, the tanks are way way closer to each other than they were in WoD.

Even DK after all the nerfs? (Bone shield, heart strike, blood boil)

On a side note, in recent pass breastplate of the golden valkyr was nerfed from 4 sec cd reduction to 3 per hit, but it still kinda looks to me as a good legendary option in comparison, any insights on that? Also btw is it per avenger's shield cast or per target hit (= 3-5x more reduction in aoe scenarios)

[Deleted]

Does Hand of the Protector gain all the perks for Light of the Protector? Ie the reduced CD from sotr hits from righteous protector, consecrated hammer bonus/consecration bonus?

[Deleted]

Yes it does. Trait + Cons pushes it to 54.6% of missing HP (35%*1.2*1.3), and that is at zero versatility. It's reasonable to expect it to be above 60% regularly. Except if the trait and the consecration bonus are added instead of multiply, which I somehow doubt.

[celinamuna]

Yes it does. Trait + Cons pushes it to 54.6% of missing HP (35%*1.2*1.3), and that is at zero versatility. It's reasonable to expect it to be above 60% regularly. Except if the trait and the consecration bonus are added instead of multiply, which I somehow doubt.

For values below 100%, it would benefit even more if they were added instead of multiply. However you are correct and they are multiplied

[Deleted]

Uhm... what?
35%*(1+0.3)*(1+0.2)=54.6%
35%*(1+0.2+0.3)=52.5%
Not according to my math

[Deleted]

Hello, could someone explain to me the most attractive artifact talent progression?

I play in a guild doing mostly up to HC Raiding, and decided on playing a Paladin as either Prot/Holy, though hoping to tank mostly. This is my first time I'll regularly Tank in raids. I just like the spec and the class fantasy so far, though inexperienced I still feel very interested in Protection.

Also, is there a way to track Last Defender?

[OrcsRLame]

Paladin has extremely good self healing, heard it here first.

Nah, I'm not the first one to say it. No one that's been paying attention has been saying paladins have bad self healing since HOTP and Bulwark got the shit buffed out of them, which, coincidentally, is the same day that Slootbag said he plans to main paladin for EN progression.

- - - Updated - - -

Even DK after all the nerfs? (Bone shield, heart strike, blood boil)

On a side note, in recent pass breastplate of the golden valkyr was nerfed from 4 sec cd reduction to 3 per hit, but it still kinda looks to me as a good legendary option in comparison, any insights on that? Also btw is it per avenger's shield cast or per target hit (= 3-5x more reduction in aoe scenarios)

Yeah, DK is fine, though they're on the lower end of the tank meta atm according to most people that are actually good.

[celinamuna]

Uhm... what?
35%*(1+0.3)*(1+0.2)=54.6%
35%*(1+0.2+0.3)=52.5%
Not according to my math

Was talking about .35% + .2 + .3.
You did some half multiplication, half addition.

[Marrilaife]

Hello, could someone explain to me the most attractive artifact talent progression?

I play in a guild doing mostly up to HC Raiding, and decided on playing a Paladin as either Prot/Holy, though hoping to tank mostly. This is my first time I'll regularly Tank in raids. I just like the spec and the class fantasy so far, though inexperienced I still feel very interested in Protection.

I think this is the usual circulating graph: http://i.imgur.com/1Rkv3bh.png

Credit to Celinamuna.

Personally I'm leaning towards picking bulwark first (the green / second option on the chart) especially after the buffs, but I can imagine the dps option being an attractive choice.

[Gallahadd]

I think this is the usual circulating graph: http://i.imgur.com/1Rkv3bh.png

Pretty sure that was the proposed route AFTER Bulwark was gutted. Now that it's been buffed to a reasonable level, I honestly can't see a reason not to go for it first.

[Deleted]

Was talking about .35% + .2 + .3.
You did some half multiplication, half addition.

Well, if you look at it that way...

As to Bulwark vs Enforcer: The reason is simply that you can get them both before the raids open and you will not really need that extra survivability until then. Personally, I would rather take that extra bit of damage, knowing that I will get Bulwark in time anyway. In AoE situation it's awesome, single target it is much weaker.

[OrcsRLame]

Slootbag said he is going to progress as paladin, damn. Suddenly paladin self healing is amazing. Pretty good mentality.

Nein, ye've reversed the cause and effect ya heathen. Paladin self healing became amazing, then Slootbag started saying that he's going to progress as paladin. That and the nerfs to warrior.

Before you question the idea, have you actually played paladin with the base 35% HOTP? With Righteous Protector I can literally do a ~2 mil heal every ~6 seconds if the incoming damage calls for it. And that's with trash gear. The bulwark change is kind of ridiculous too.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

So there was a thread on the DK forums asking about co-tanks for Blood. Most went Prot War/Bear as their responses.

But a single poster stated something along the lines of "Nobody mentioned Prot Paladin, but in reality we're OP...best kept secret in Legion".

So, assuming for a second that poster is on to something...what's the reasoning behind it?

I would guess that paladins are best off-tank for anyone. What other tank has Blessings to help shield main tank?

[Taeldorian]

Nein, ye've reversed the cause and effect ya heathen. Paladin self healing became amazing, then Slootbag started saying that he's going to progress as paladin. That and the nerfs to warrior.

Before you question the idea, have you actually played paladin with the base 35% HOTP? With Righteous Protector I can literally do a ~2 mil heal every ~6 seconds if the incoming damage calls for it. And that's with trash gear. The bulwark change is kind of ridiculous too.

Shh dont say anything. You guys are gonna get yourself nerfed.

[OrcsRLame]

Shh dont say anything. You guys are gonna get yourself nerfed.

Oh, um. *coughs* What was I saying? Oh yeah, prot paladins are shit! We have the worst healing, the worst dps, the worst mitigation and they're too hard to play even if they weren't terrible. Give us buffs!

[Taeldorian]

Oh, um. *coughs* What was I saying? Oh yeah, prot paladins are shit! We have the worst healing, the worst dps, the worst mitigation and they're too hard to play even if they weren't terrible. Give us buffs!

Thats the spirit. Thats probably how mages have been doing it for years.

[celinamuna]

Thats the spirit. Thats probably how mages have been doing it for years.

mages and rogues

[Hashcrypt]

So I gotta say that I've come full circle on Prot and Paladin as a whole. Unfortunately when I first started messing around on the PTR some months back, my Paladin got the brunt end of rage due to all the pruning and massive changes that took place.

I played for maybe a half hour on both ret and prot...and then shelved my Pally in disgust.

Well after playing a multitude of other classes, I now have a feel for what gameplay is like for basically every tank and nearly every class overall. With a broader understanding of the gameplay changes that effected all specs in the game, I can see Paladin with less criticism overall.

Tonight I dusted my Pally off and did some SoO with guildies. Wow is all I can say.

I'm honestly impressed with Prots gameplay overall. I think between a fresh perspective and many tweaks and adjustments that's have taken place over time, I can now fully appreciate what Pally has to offer.

I wanted to main Pally in Legion, and after tonight I think I'll be able to fullfil that wish.