Stop making Horde and Orcs the bad guys

[Deleted]

I'm still waiting for the expansion without orc baddies... time for the gnomish takover!

[Kalset]

Do you have proof? Because I'd say that it's more about Class Halls achieving what factions could not.

I am so glad that you said this, because I think I knew this, but it's like when I read this, it all shifted in my mind. This is why the Horde and Alliance failed at the Broken Shore, to set the stage for Class Order Halls and the unification of classes in Legion.



On another note, I'm intrigued by what you are stating with your father being military and being in Libya doing work in the 80's, because Libya was most definitely friends with and working hand in hand with the USSR during this time period, which was the Cold War Era, which meant that the US had absolutely no bases or people working in Libya with the exception of those who were probably undercover working for our side.



As for your opinion on whether or not retreating is cowardly, this is your right to believe whatever it is that you will. I for one disagree based on the circumstances. If the person in charge of you determines what action the force takes, the consequences fall entirely on them. Thus, if Vol'jin effectively told the Horde to retreat, it was his right and position to do so. These actions are not a stain or mar on the Horde or the new Warchief, but fall on him.

[Tackhisis]

Alliance spared Orcs' Nazi scum lives and how did they repay? By killing the humans. Even in their new habitat they cannot resist killing everybody else. They are a canon example of an "evil", depraved, corrupted race. The rest of the horde races are similar corrupted and unredeemable degenerates.

[Jotaux]

Alliance spared Orcs' Nazi scum lives and how did they repay? By killing the humans. Even in their new habitat they cannot resist killing everybody else. They are a canon example of an "evil", depraved, corrupted race. The rest of the horde races are similar corrupted and unredeemable degenerates.

Wasn't it the Alliance that had the nazi camps? Or did you watch a camrip movie of Nazi Germany and the quality was so bad you thought it was the warcraft movie?

[Tackhisis]

Wasn't it the Alliance that had the nazi camps?

No, they didn't. They feed the captive troops and civilians instead of executing them as they deserved.

[Dormie]

Alliance spared Orcs' Nazi scum lives and how did they repay? By killing the humans. Even in their new habitat they cannot resist killing everybody else. They are a canon example of an "evil", depraved, corrupted race. The rest of the horde races are similar corrupted and unredeemable degenerates.

I don't think they're evil, just stupid and tribal.

[Sir Andy]

If they aren't "the bad guys", what difference is there between them and the Alliance? Besides greater body type diversity?

The Horde are "the bad guys." Really, the Tushui and Tauren are the only ones who I can see as "good."

-The orcs are all about conquest and destruction for personal glory.
-The trolls come from a race of cannibals.
-The undead are out to murder everyone into joining their ranks.
-The goblins are entirely profit-driven.
-The blood elves are arrogant and magic addicted, driving them to do terrible things if too long deprived.

And that's a good thing. It provides an alternative for people who don't want to play a faction of pious do-gooders. God I miss Garrosh (before MoP destroyed his character). Guy was an asshole, but he was an honorable leader who really kicked the shit out of the Alliance and made the contrast between Alliance and Horde prety stark. Barring some massive change in character, Sylvanas is still the same wicked bitch who destroyed Gilneas, killed Greymane's son and violated Garrosh's orders to deploy the plague and the Lich King's minions all over Lordaeron. Whether or not that jives with Horde players determines if she stays Warchief.

[Gradingus]

lol, the RIGHT to survive in Azeroth? Remind me again what their reasons for coming to Azeroth were and what they did when they got there. Tbh Horde is lucky the Alliance hasn't decided to group up and wipe them all off of Azeroth.

Because Draenor was rapidly dying, and they were being led by Gul'dan, who was using them for his evil intentions. I'm pretty sure the demon blood caused them to become a lot more bloodthirsty, as well.

I'd say some Alliance people are living in downright fantasy land, but we all know both sides have people like that. Really sad.

EDIT: I forget that the time with Gul'dan was probably not the first time, but I'm pretty sure that every time they came to Azeroth, it's because someone was leading or using them with evil intentions. When you arrive in Draenor and see your standard, brown-skinned orc, you can obviously see that they're normally not nearly as savage and bloodthirsty as people would have them seem.

[Dormie]

Because Draenor was rapidly dying, and they were being led by Gul'dan, who was using them for his evil intentions. I'm pretty sure the demon blood caused them to become a lot more bloodthirsty, as well.

I'd say some Alliance people are living in downright fantasy land, but we all know both sides have people like that. Really sad.

That doesn't entirely excuse them, they still knew what they were doing. And what about the Draenei they were so simply convinced into slaughtering that put them in that situation to begin with?

[Gradingus]

That doesn't entirely excuse them, they still knew what they were doing. And what about the Draenei they were so simply convinced into slaughtering that put them in that situation to begin with?

I honestly don't know for sure. I'd have to read up on that. My apologies.

[Dormie]

I honestly don't know for sure. I'd have to read up on that. My apologies.

Like I said they aren't evil, just tribal and thick headed. That's why Thrall was kind of their Jesus, he was the opposite of the bad side of the Horde.

[Tackhisis]

Because Draenor was rapidly dying

Draenor was not dying in the canon universe. Hell, there are still people living there for 30 years after it was literally blasted to pieces. They just wanted more victims to kill and sacrifice, and more loot. They turned the Black Morass in a desert.....

[Simulacrum]

I wish they'd stop making the horde NOT the bad guys. I didn't roll a crazy undead mage because I wanted to be all about love, peace, and understanding.

[Gradingus]

Like I said they aren't evil, just tribal and thick headed. That's why Thrall was kind of their Jesus, he was the opposite of the bad side of the Horde.

I don't think your standard orc would usually be that thick-headed, but the demon blood definitely made them that way. Thrall himself was raised as a slave and a gladiator in pretty poor conditions, but that was by Humans with evil intentions, to be fair.

They just wanted more victims to kill and sacrifice, and more loot.

If you didn't add this part, I might have believed you.

---

I'll add this: There are people who want Horde to be "the bad guys". But both sides have good and evil people. It's not black and white, but unlimited shades of gray. No one's stopping you from being "evil", but don't make it a generalization of an entire side.

[epLe]

Agree with OP, the trend the later expansions is to make horde more the bad guys to some extent.

While originally Medivh, Arthas, Jaina, Illidan (and Anduin*BP) was causing way more mayhem.
Shades of grey some may say... but those are the true villains of WoW. Not gul'dan nor garrosh, who both are pawns in comparison.

[Tackhisis]

I might have believed you.

Read TLG, a canon book, for a change. It describes pretty well what the Old Horde was doing and wanting in Azeroth.

Thrall himself was raised as a slave and a gladiator in pretty poor conditions

Both New and Old Hordes has absolutely no issues with slavery and gladiators, but humans, who treated Orcs humanely are somehow "evil" to Horde? That's ridiculous.

[Snowfunk]

Ded Orkz tell no Liez

[Deleted]

terrible topic starter, the only usefull thing i can interpret out of it is as followed:
Fighting my own race (on massive scale) sucks.

But the reasoning /arguments given are either hypocritical or bullshit. So this post will be mainly adressed to those who feel/think like op about it.

During WOTLK fighting vs Scourge,Lich King and Scarlet Crusade was way more epic and intresting than fighting vs Orcs during WOD/MOP represented by Garrosh and Iron Horde.

WOTLK had 12millions subscribers and MOP had only about 7 millions

When most villians are X race and all good guys are Y race in game its pretty lame and morally wrong.

Edit: i think i did mistake by touching too much subjects in one post, just wanted to say that fighting forces like Scourge/Lich King/Scarlet Crusade is much more fun than fighting Orc npcs like Garrosh kor'krons/Iron Horde. Apologies.

- It's funny how you were fine orcs being villains in Cataclysm.....just as long as your not directly confronted by it having done so.

- It's funny how you mention Scarlet Crusade.....humans.....

- And later you try to have another playerrace be the enemy like orcs were........

- Why didnt you mention trolls, arnt they a problem as well?

Making Tauren vs Orcs fights/conflict makes almost no sense, Taurens are first or one of first 2 races that joined Orcs and became their allys,

This was not the case they were fighting Garrosh horde the evil element. Taurens and orcs don't have a dislike for eachother like they might with blood elves or alliance. This was never show....it makes completly sense why they had a conflict.

Orcs was peaceful shamanic race before Legion invaded the world, and it was not Orcs who summoned Burning Legion to the World but High Borne Night Elves.

No they wern't peacefull. That was just said onetime to go with Thrall's story at the start. But if you read the books, past games or even WoD you know they were mostly a savage warrior culture. Shamans were guides but the warriors rules. This can differ a bit per tribe. Shadowmoon clan was the most shamanistic tribe. Frostwolves were one of the more peacefull ones. The way they were peacefull was that they were in balance. Their was no big war or conquest, most tribes maintained their teritory and on ocasions had border clashes with other tribes.

During Vanilla Horde and Orcs wasnt the bad guys.

They wern't portrayed as badguys, but they had evil actions. They many alliance locations when Alliance didn't do anything against them. This was supposed to be the new reformed horde thats different and yet it attack on many locations. It's just that you don't see phasing and many were ignored or treated by horde as simple any other enemy killing. A good example of something that got changed by the actions in vanilla was the Dwarven Fort in Hillbrad. Because of the forsaken poisonening everyone their was killed.
In TBC they did nothing against alliance.


Conclusion:
This game is a 2 faction game not one. And the way you want it to be destroys the alliance. Their is a reason why horde pride was so much bigger all the way up to MoP. The way this type of view is wanting to feel bad ass without being villains. This means being able to attack alliance without consequence. And the game supported this where you could see neutrals claiming alliance and horde being the same.
In a way it's natural for horde players to think this way as that is what blizzard has set out the horde experience to be, it's also more propaganda pride style in the dialogue. Unfortunatly this started hurting alliance badly since it made them look incompetent and unrealistic.
Either it needs to be:
- Alliance can retaliate just as badly (and it being reactionary still feel good)
- Alliance retaliate less but succesfull where it matters, neutrals acknowledge the bad of horde
- Don't do faction war stuff

Be aware im less familiar with WoD style horde. So maybe blizzard is changing horde experience.
I'm not saying horde doesn't have an issue now. It does it has a nation leader issue that is hurting that nations identity. These are Orcs and Trolls.

[Deleted]

I wish they'd stop making the horde NOT the bad guys. I didn't roll a crazy undead mage because I wanted to be all about love, peace, and understanding.

I know, it seems like forever since I've got a quest to kill some innocent scrub for a forsaken apothecary. Where's my race fantasy.

[Sir Andy]

I wish they'd stop making the horde NOT the bad guys. I didn't roll a crazy undead mage because I wanted to be all about love, peace, and understanding.

I feel like that was the appeal of most of the Horde races. Most of them are actually bad, if not downright evil. Even the Tauren are powerful savages.