McConnell: Senate won't take up TPP this year.

[Shadowferal]

This is not surprising as they are going to save it as an issue if Hillary is elected to force concessions or gridlock.

Gridlock doesn't bother me at all in this case.

[Mafic]

Gridlock doesn't bother me at all in this case.

Sometimes the best thing to do is to punt instead of forcing a play.

Before Hillary's come to Jesus moment she pushed for the TPP harder than Obama did. The Republicans know that the TPP is her crown jewel as a 90's Blue hound Democrat and that Obama is simply trying to keep it alive as long as possible.

[Shadowferal]

Why's that?

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What is wrong with patent laws and what specifically is wrong with the environmental protections?

How the hell could you be endorsing something you know so little of?

The “investor protection” provisions of the allows foreign investors to bring claims for money damages over violations of the TPP’s investor protection provisions before a private arbitration tribunal that operates outside the challenged government’s court system.

Or to put it another way: it allows foreign investors to bypass our courts and instead move to “investor-state” arbitration. Ergo US laws and regulations can be negated by three individuals who are not government officials and need not be American citizens.

Clean air, clean water...safety regs...US Constitution, can all be negated for the sake of profit. Because all an investor needs to say..."we don't follow those regulations in our toxic dump of a country, and doing so in your country hurts our profit margins, so pay us for our losses or get rid of those pesky laws or pay hefty damages on top of that."

And throw out wages in every field and industry...even "minimum" is likely not low enough.

(Reference: NAFTA, and Canada's ban on MMT)

[dd614]

(Source)

So TPP's chances seem to have faded ever further and Mitch seems to have put the lid on a Lame Duck passage. I suppose I owe the first Turtle American senator a drink. Of course how ironic that the Republicans now have to be counted on to stop a Democrat president from screwing over American workers.

Just goes to show McConnell and the GOP cuckservatives are more in line with Hillary than Trump.

[Theodarzna]

All of this I was aware of before, but your phrasing brought a bit of a realization to me - it's the formalization of a two-tier system - it creates a global elite, who rule over a global proletariat. The problem right now (for TPP-supporters) is that a global middle class exists (globally, this means the developed world), with some economic mobility to traverse into the upper classes (at the expense of the existing upper class).

If they want to look out for the best long-term interests of their families, they need to eliminate global economic mobility - the ability for people in the middle class to usurp power from the rich. Without a global middle class - people who are educated, with some economic stability, and the means for independent entrepreneurship - could come up with a better idea, enter the market, and surpass your family company.

This is not a conspiracy theory, it's not a handful of wealthy families in smoke-filled rooms, wearing over-sized black hoods - it may not even be a conscious motive at all - but because it aligns with the best way to protect your legacy, through your childrens ability to retain your wealth and power - it is simultaneously in the best interests of the super-rich, all over the planet.

By equalizing the level of education, and quality of work performed, between the developed world and the developing - the middle class is eliminated - and the risk of economic mobility from the poor to the rich is virtually non-existent. It's not necessary to shutdown entrepreneurship at all, you only need to shut down independent entrepreneurship - venture capitalism still ensures that the lion's share of the wealth returns to the top.

This is true, ALSO those wealthy families have to consider the future. For global capitalism, the globe is the limit. What do you do when there are no more markets to expand into? Nobody on the moon or mars wants to buy an iPhone. Globalization is the peak of this sort of system, what comes after however is a mystery.

Heck we are already paralyzed into political inaction by the markets barking and screaming any time anyone wants to do something of great significance.

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I take it you're a connoisseur of poison water and radioactive soil?

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It's a shame this didn't just voted on though. Struck down, it would have faded from memory. Now it's going to be a dead horse we someone here gets to beat on as if it wasn't already annoying enough.

If I can get this thread to 200 pages, then you can bitch.

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Summing up all the comments. What are you doing in this post?

Nobody talked about Ronald Reagan, I've said zero about Free Trade and in general I've disliked it primarily because I see NAFTA and TPP as a betrayal of Democrat voters, Nobody talked about the Patriot Act, and nobody mentioned Christianity.

[melodramocracy]

Good. Multi-national corporations have enough protection in place, they don't need more.

[zenkai]

The "not rats", obvoiusly.

No matter what you "Feel" (and lets face it, that's all the Republicans are... "Feelings over facts"), Clinton and Obama have and will go down as our better presidents, espeically after the disaster of GWB and the nearly impossible-but-real worse Donald Dump if, heaven forbid, he gets his corporate mitts on the reigns.

LOL Talk about being delusional. Then again in Public school I was taught Columbus went sailing to prove the world wasn't flat, so yeah I am sure someone else will write fairy tails to teach our children.

[Bollocks]

A Dubai real estate mogul and former business partner of Donald Trump was sentenced to prison for collaborating on a deal that would swindle the Egyptian people.

After digging on this first segment for an entire day at the u I've found many of the errors. The case that the Egyptian government was trying to push was that the previous deal was made using corrupt means which Egypt could not prove. In addition to the criminal charges that were dropped was due to Egypt not continuing their case. If their case was strong they could have won. And before you say that these case was not meant to exist in the first place as the article implies you can check here http://investmentpolicyhub.unctad.or...reatyFile/2399
Thus seems to be more of Egypt mismanaging the case.

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In general the problem with our patent laws, or one of the big ones is that they last far longer than is practically useful for society. For Drugs the problem is it means drugs staying grotesquely over priced for far longer. Among other horrible things.

In the case of drugs any drug deemed essential to the public by the WHO us excluded from the tpp.

[Xeones]

1. TPP will make less fortunate economies more equal with the US, Japan, Canada, Australia etc. This is a nice thing to do.

2. Once people in those countries make similar wages to US workers, they aren't as much of a threat to US workers. Who is going to move their factory from Poughkeepsie NY where workers make $21 an hour to Monterey Mexico where they make $20 an hour? The move is way less tempting for employers.

You can see this happening with China somewhat already, now that Chinese workers are making much better wages it's not as tempting for US companies to export labor to China. And Chinese workers making higher wages is a good thing IMO.

I'm sure that is the argument the politicians try to put forth.

But this is something Obama/Hillary and the Republicans used to agree on. Before public outcry at least. I don't for a second believe that the multinational corporations who have been exploiting near slave labor are supporting this to accomplish what you have suggested.

[Bollocks]

How the hell could you be endorsing something you know so little of?

The “investor protection” provisions of the allows foreign investors to bring claims for money damages over violations of the TPP’s investor protection provisions before a private arbitration tribunal that operates outside the challenged government’s court system.

Or to put it another way: it allows foreign investors to bypass our courts and instead move to “investor-state” arbitration. Ergo US laws and regulations can be negated by three individuals who are not government officials and need not be American citizens.

Clean air, clean water...safety regs...US Constitution, can all be negated for the sake of profit. Because all an investor needs to say..."we don't follow those regulations in our toxic dump of a country, and doing so in your country hurts our profit margins, so pay us for our losses or get rid of those pesky laws or pay hefty damages on top of that."

And throw out wages in every field and industry...even "minimum" is likely not low enough.

(Reference: NAFTA, and Canada's ban on MMT)

This is false given that ISDS disputes can only be filed under the terms of the fta min wage and environmental regulations are under the tpp. And in regards to nafta and mmt, Canada was unable to prove that it was effectively toxic.

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All of this I was aware of before, but your phrasing brought a bit of a realization to me - it's the formalization of a two-tier system - it creates a global elite, who rule over a global proletariat. The problem right now (for TPP-supporters) is that a global middle class exists (globally, this means the developed world), with some economic mobility to traverse into the upper classes (at the expense of the existing upper class).

If they want to look out for the best long-term interests of their families, they need to eliminate global economic mobility - the ability for people in the middle class to usurp power from the rich. Without a global middle class - people who are educated, with some economic stability, and the means for independent entrepreneurship - could come up with a better idea, enter the market, and surpass your family company.

This is not a conspiracy theory, it's not a handful of wealthy families in smoke-filled rooms, wearing over-sized black hoods - it may not even be a conscious motive at all - but because it aligns with the best way to protect your legacy, through your childrens ability to retain your wealth and power - it is simultaneously in the best interests of the super-rich, all over the planet.

By equalizing the level of education, and quality of work performed, between the developed world and the developing - the middle class is eliminated - and the risk of economic mobility from the poor to the rich is virtually non-existent. It's not necessary to shutdown entrepreneurship at all, you only need to shut down independent entrepreneurship - venture capitalism still ensures that the lion's share of the wealth returns to the top.

How does the last paragraph is associated to the idea of the elite preserving their wealth?

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US Government Study Predicts TPP Trade Agreement Will Produce Practically No Extra Growth For Anyone


(source)

You also have the world bank predicting negligible if any positives.

Because FTAs made by the US are not meant to bring exponential growth, but to brino stability to a region and allow more control on the process of globalisation

[cubby]

(Source)

So TPP's chances seem to have faded ever further and Mitch seems to have put the lid on a Lame Duck passage. I suppose I owe the first Turtle American senator a drink. Of course how ironic that the Republicans now have to be counted on to stop a Democrat president from screwing over American workers.

McConnell hasn't done anything except fight Obama for the past eight years, why is it a surprise that he will continue that same behavior?

[Theodarzna]

McConnell hasn't done anything except fight Obama for the past eight years, why is it a surprise that he will continue that same behavior?

Well in this instance it is great, since it stopped the TPP.

You know, that thing Hillary Clinton at least SAYS she is against?

[cubby]

Well in this instance it is great, since it stopped the TPP.

You know, that thing Hillary Clinton at least SAYS she is against?

Well, yeah, good point there. Lol re Hillary - her stance on this hasn't been great.

But McConnell and his idiot GOP cronies are still the most obstructionist members of Congress in the US history.

[Bollocks]

I'm sure that is the argument the politicians try to put forth.

But this is something Obama/Hillary and the Republicans used to agree on. Before public outcry at least. I don't for a second believe that the multinational corporations who have been exploiting near slave labor are supporting this to accomplish what you have suggested.

Unwillingly they do. More economic growth causes a middle class to spur and generates more industries which in turn increases wages. Like Hubcap mentioned china it's already outsourcing it's manufacturing jobs and companies are less likely to outsource there. Now they are shifting their economy towards science.

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Exactly, it's perfect.

The tpp has environmental regulations, the critique towards it is that they are too low. Which is understandable given that some of its members barely have any regulation.

[Forogil]

This is not a conspiracy theory, it's not a handful of wealthy families in smoke-filled rooms, wearing over-sized black hoods - it may not even be a conscious motive at all - but because it aligns with the best way to protect your legacy, through your childrens ability to retain your wealth and power - it is simultaneously in the best interests of the super-rich, all over the planet.

You are missing another part of the picture:

In every country there are a few fairly wealth families that run businesses behind trade barriers. They want to avoid competition from abroad - and they have the local politicians in their pocket. They might talk about "protecting the workers" - but it is really their own jobs they want to protect.

So, there are both advantages and disadvantages of free trade: the advantages are often many small ones (lots of products getting a bit cheaper), and the disadvantages a few major ones - like a factory closing (that likely would have closed anyway).
Thus it's easy for the politicians to blame free trade for everything bad - and take credit themselves for the benefits without acknowledging free trade.

[Bollocks]

In some by gone age there was once this concept of national solidarity, the old Brittonic word Combrogi comes in mind, "Fellow Countrymen."

Of course we've long since ditched social solidarity as a virtue and are now all self-actualizing individuals, just turns out some self-actualizing individuals are more equal than others and certainly wield greater power.

Except that protectionism harms more everyone to save few as industries see the costs of their products rise and may lead to a breaking point in pricing elasticity.