why our orcs models all short and hunched unlike thrall new model

[Noxulos]

Actually its an opinion.

You would need something other than your own conclusions drawing similarities between the two to support that. You don't have anything, so its opinion.

I'm not butthurt over anything. You can't stand being wrong, its okay though, most people in this forum can't. If you had evidence to support that WoW was inspired by Warhammer, that evidence would have been sufficient YEARS ago to draw up a case for copyright infringement. It doesn't exist.

My point is if it was so blatantly 1:1 apparent that Warhammer influenced Warcraft, it wasn't just influence, it was copying.

Why couldn't both Warhammer and Warcraft have drawn from much earlier source material? Like DnD, and LotR, and Princess of Mars?

I figured I'd contribute with my 8 seconds of Googling --

http://kotaku.com/5929157/the-making-of-warcraft-part-1

"Allen Adham hoped to obtain a license to the Warhammer universe to try to increase sales by brand recognition. Warhammer was a huge inspiration for the art-style of Warcraft, but a combination of factors, including a lack of traction on business terms and a fervent desire on the part of virtually everyone else on the development team (myself included) to control our own universe nixed any potential for a deal. We had already had terrible experiences working with DC Comics on "Death and Return of Superman" and "Justice League Task Force", and wanted no similar issues for our new game."


http://kotaku.com/5929161/how-warcra...that-saved-wow

[Traveler Voltin]

Its a mess up in beta or alpha.
Then they flat out refused to fix it when the redid the models even with the high demand

[A dot Ham]

I figured I'd contribute with my 8 seconds of Googling --

http://kotaku.com/5929157/the-making-of-warcraft-part-1

"Allen Adham hoped to obtain a license to the Warhammer universe to try to increase sales by brand recognition. Warhammer was a huge inspiration for the art-style of Warcraft, but a combination of factors, including a lack of traction on business terms and a fervent desire on the part of virtually everyone else on the development team (myself included) to control our own universe nixed any potential for a deal. We had already had terrible experiences working with DC Comics on "Death and Return of Superman" and "Justice League Task Force", and wanted no similar issues for our new game."


http://kotaku.com/5929161/how-warcra...that-saved-wow

Bolded for emphasis. Nowhere do they attribute any other similarities.

Again I will state:

If you are GW and you decide not to move forward with licensing your product to Blizzard. Yet Blizzard moves forward with the project anyway and changes only a few things, you have a duty to protect your IP (because no one is going to do it for you). They did not move forward with lawsuit. So either they are stupid over there at GW or they understood that the game was unique enough with its own unique story NOT to be considered by them, or anyone else copyright infringement.

This whole argument that they changed "just enough" to make it its own IP. Isn't factual, it isn't even supported by copyright law. Regardless of how many "changes" a person place on a given IP, if the IP owner can definitively prove that the idea was uniquely their own and could not have possibly come from anywhere else... they will win a copyright infringement case. ESPECIALLY if there is admittance by the offending party to have been influenced by the original IP, AND previous (failed) business dealings.

Point here being nothing that Warhammer was producing was overly unique in and of itself for the fantasy fiction genre. So its kind of hard to claim an idea is uniquely your own, when a person can point to THEIR influences as well.

[zephid]

Orcs appear in Lord of the Rings which was published back in 1954
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lord_of_the_Rings

The orcs in Tolkien's world doesn't look anything like the orcs in Warhammer or Warcraft though. It's a well known fact that Warcraft 1 is heavily inspired by Warhammer because it was supposed to be a warhammer game from the beginning.

[A dot Ham]

The orcs in Tolkien's world doesn't look anything like the orcs in Warhammer or Warcraft though. It's a well known fact that Warcraft 1 is heavily inspired by Warhammer because it was supposed to be a warhammer game from the beginning.

Pick and choose... ignore the other link...

[Noxulos]

Pick and choose... ignore the other link...

It sounds more like --
Blizzard used Warhammer as inspiration for the art
Seeing an opportunity in using the Warhammer name, Blizzard had discussions after much of the art was created
Blizzard decided they'd rather retain full intellectual rights

But at the end of the day, Warhammer was used as a reference, and strong enough of one that they felt they could use it to obtain Warhammer licensing.

[zephid]

Pick and choose... ignore the other link...

Because the other link has nothing to do with Orcs. The green skinned martians in that story had 6 limbs for Christs sake.

You are blind if you can't see the the clear connection between the orcs in Warcraft and the Orcs in Warhammer. You don't have to take my word for it. Patrick Wyatt, who worked at blizzard during the Warcraft 1 & 2 days confirmed it during an interview.

"Patrick Wyatt, the Producer on Warcraft, explains in a lengthy "making of" feature that some at Blizzard had wanted to make a Warhammer game, but things just didn't work out.
[...]
"[Blizzard co-founder] Allen Adham hoped to obtain a license to the Warhammer universe to try to increase sales by brand recognition", Wyatt says. "Warhammer was a huge inspiration for the art-style of Warcraft"
http://kotaku.com/5929161/how-warcra...that-saved-wow

[Raetary]

wasnt the hunch a vanilla bug they wanted to fix but players liked it so they didnt?

[A dot Ham]

It sounds more like --
Blizzard used Warhammer as inspiration for the art
Seeing an opportunity in using the Warhammer name, Blizzard had discussions after much of the art was created
Blizzard decided they'd rather retain full intellectual rights

But at the end of the day, Warhammer was used as a reference, and strong enough of one that they felt they could use it to obtain Warhammer licensing.

You can want all you like. You produce and sell a game in any civilized part of the world and it will be subject to copyright laws.

GW seeing that Blizzard was going to move forward with the exact project while cutting ties with GW, they should have pursued a case. They didn't. Why didn't they?

Are they stupid?

or

Did they not have a case?

You have to answer the question.

Ultimately this:


Looks nothing like anything Warhammer was producing at the time... regardless of concept art.

[Noxulos]

You can want all you like. You produce and sell a game in any civilized part of the world and it will be subject to copyright laws.

GW seeing that Blizzard was going to move forward with the exact project while cutting ties with GW, they should have pursued a case. They didn't. Why didn't they?

Are they stupid?

or

Did they not have a case?

You have to answer the question.

Ultimately this:


Looks nothing like anything Warhammer was producing at the time... regardless of concept art.

Check out the art in the manuals for the game. Google 'warcraft manual art' and compare to Warhammer art.

It's clear that they drew inspiration from Warhammer and admitted it in the article listed above. No one is debating copyright law, in fact it's no longer a debate...an original project lead has confirmed they drew inspiration from Warhammer. Not entirely sure what else is left to discuss? Are you saying that Warcraft did not use Warhammer as a reference for their art style?

[Nakotsu]

I've given serious thought to switching over to Alliance simply because they all stand up straight.

they have to cuz they are so short...

- - - Updated - - -

Check out the art in the manuals for the game. Google 'warcraft manual art' and compare to Warhammer art.

It's clear that they drew inspiration from Warhammer and admitted it in the article listed above. No one is debating copyright law, in fact it's no longer a debate...an original project lead has confirmed they drew inspiration from Warhammer. Not entirely sure what else is left to discuss? Are you saying that Warcraft did not use Warhammer as a reference for their art style?

OMG that makes me want to pull out my warcraft 1 or 2 cd and install it and see if it runs on windows 10...

[Eats Compost]

Simply put, it was a creative error that they didn't catch onto quickly enough. They can't really change it now without making a lot of people upset, and adding it in parallel has a lot of crazy implications for everything from animations to how armor fits.

In all fairness, their Thrall redesign kicked off this mess. They wanted him to look all heroic and shit, so they straightened his back. That was the real mistake.

[A dot Ham]

Because the other link has nothing to do with Orcs. The green skinned martians in that story had 6 limbs for Christs sake.

You are blind if you can't see the the clear connection between the orcs in Warcraft and the Orcs in Warhammer. You don't have to take my word for it. Patrick Wyatt, who worked at blizzard during the Warcraft 1 & 2 days confirmed it during an interview.

"Patrick Wyatt, the Producer on Warcraft, explains in a lengthy "making of" feature that some at Blizzard had wanted to make a Warhammer game, but things just didn't work out.
[...]
"[Blizzard co-founder] Allen Adham hoped to obtain a license to the Warhammer universe to try to increase sales by brand recognition", Wyatt says. "Warhammer was a huge inspiration for the art-style of Warcraft"
http://kotaku.com/5929161/how-warcra...that-saved-wow

So because they are "martians" and have an extra pair of arms... totally irrelevant and unrelated? You sir are the blind one.

Their culture, their tusks, their homes... everything else about them is the same. LOL.

So you take the HORDE... they are actually referred to as the horde in princess of mars.

You combine that reference, with the reference to tolkiens orcs... and you start to get something resembling a creature from both warhammer and warcraft

Its fucking retarded that I had to spell that out for you.

[Smank]

If you had evidence to support that WoW was inspired by Warhammer, that evidence would have been sufficient YEARS ago to draw up a case for copyright infringement.

Are you even listening at this point, or just waiting for a reply to respond and prove how "right" you are? I'm not saying WoW is infringing on Warhammer. BEING INSPIRED BY SOMETHING IS NOT BAD, WRONG OR ILLEGAL!!! Warcraft was INSPIRED by Warhammer. WoW was INSPIRED by EverQuest. I'm sure some elements of Warhammer are inspired by other games too. There is nothing wrong with this. Warcraft wasn't 100% pull strait out of one guys head. Games and works of fiction have been inspired by works from the past for the longest of times.

[zephid]

So because they are "martians" and have an extra pair of arms... totally irrelevant and unrelated? You sir are the blind one.

Their culture, their tusks, their homes... everything else about them is the same. LOL.

So you take the HORDE... they are actually referred to as the horde in princess of mars.

You combine that reference, with the reference to tolkiens orcs... and you start to get something resembling a creature from both warhammer and warcraft

Its fucking retarded that I had to spell that out for you.

Blizzard themselves has confirmed that they drew their inspiration from Warhammer. You lost! Get over it and move on!

http://kotaku.com/5929161/how-warcra...that-saved-wow

[Smank]

Blizzard themselves has confirmed that they drew their inspiration from Warhammer. You lost! Get over it and move on!

http://kotaku.com/5929161/how-warcra...that-saved-wow

At this point I'm 90% sure he's trolling. Probably best to just report it and move on now. Besides, we have a new xpack to play/prep for.

[A dot Ham]

Blizzard themselves has confirmed that they drew their inspiration from Warhammer. You lost! Get over it and move on!

http://kotaku.com/5929161/how-warcra...that-saved-wow

aaaaaand Warhammer was inspired by content created 50+ years prior, and all the fantasy fiction released in between. Warhammer's product is not unique in the slightest.

Once again... ART.

So yeah if you wanna see the crappy Metzen sketches you can pull out your Orcs and Humans manual... as far as what actually made it into the game. Well its kind of hard to discern that little mario-esque orc from anything really.

Gameplay was influenced by Dune 2.

I'll take gameplay over art any day of the week. Ironically the "cartoony" style of Warcraft has always been a major point of contention for those not fond of the series.

[Friendlyimmolation]

The art director said they would work on giving us straight backed orcs (eventually)

[Luko]

Also I think they might fix the hunchback when they add Sub-races to the game (hopefully next expansion)

Lol, people have been treating this as a "when" scenario since the end of WotLK. Dunno if you realize, that was nearly 7 years ago. I'm not sure I'd hold my breath anymore.

[DarthMonk79]

He does look like an Orc. Orcs generally do stand tall, even in the movie they do this. It's only in WoW they are hunched and stuff. I suppose if you want to be semantic all Orcs look like Fat humans with green skin but I digress.

Really? Have you watched LoTR, half the Orcs in there were half elf, you saw smaller orcs/trolls hunched or walk with a weird limp. Rarely in most forms of lore to Orcs stand completely upright like humans. The usually have a slight hunch because their shoulder are so broad, the amount of muscle they have in the shoulders, upper back and arms pulls down on their bodies. It makes perfect sense, it might not look the greatest but it makes sense.