Ret Paladin 7.0.3 DPS comparison

[OrcsRLame]

So I did a thing. https://www.twitch.tv/slootbag/v/86261831

Run starts at 6:18:00. The DK was 16 ilvls ahead of me, the hunter was 12, and Slootbag was 24.

I went Zeal to try and shift a bit towards AoE. Still lost on pretty much every AoE pull, but it wasn't by a terrible amount most of the time. Everyone was reasonably close on the first boss, I played like shit on the second boss so I was bottom, (I'm still fucking clueless when it comes to playing around Sapped Soul) I was pretty close to everyone on the third boss, and I was top on the last 2 bosses. It was a reasonably good run for me, but I could have done better on some pulls and I stood in fire a lot cause I'm bad. Didn't die though, so I got that going for me. Since I was top on 2 bosses I'll call it a success.

To me that seems reasonably balanced more or less. 16 Ilvl is quite a bit, and I think I could have beaten or kept up with the DK on AoE if that gap was smaller. Obviously if I was extremely competitive on single target with such a large ilvl deficit, I would have been top without question if that gap were equalized. I don't know for sure how skilled the DK and hunter were, but I'm guessing they're reasonably competent because they both had Defiler's End. I just hope we don't get nerfed. ^_^

PS: Kings was about 9% of Slootbag's healing throughout the dungeon.

[BAIRD]

New sims... for what they are worth


Can you idiots take a step back from the ledge now?

[Dracodraco]

I mean, slapping random numbers from unfinished APLS and gearsets on classes is as useful as anything else people can do, but it doesn't really say a ton about the current state of the game. I personally don't think rets are going to be useless if they're good players, sitting as the GM of a guild just shy of top 100, but I'd never base any judgement off of pre-release sims.

[Neldarie]

Those sims actually look very close to reallity I've experienced on beta. I still don't think its ok when gap is that big between top3 and the rest tho.

[marinos]

I dont think that in ST we are going to have huge problems but when cleave and aoe are involved we are going to suffer a lot.

[Deleted]

New sims... for what they are worth


Can you idiots take a step back from the ledge now?

u fell off this ledge multiple times onto ur head, hm? y so hostile, keep it neutral. u cant join debate with: stopid mfs.
on my corner all u get is a 9, straight between ur eyes.

[OrcsRLame]

When no one comments on your live dungeon run because everyone is too busy discussing a crackpot sim. FeelsBadMan

[Neldarie]

Whats there to comment on? Ya used wrong spec for overall output aka Crusade+Zeal. You played with pretty horrible players. You did a pretty horrible overall dungeon in design (mostly bosses so Crusade shines). And your overall dps was lower than what I remember doing w-o legendary cloak.

In regards to specific bosses: Ashgolem = other people didn't have CDs ready yet. Cordana ya pretty much had 2 sets of cds.

[OrcsRLame]

Whats there to comment on? Ya used wrong spec for overall output aka Crusade+Zeal. You played with pretty horrible players. You did a pretty horrible overall dungeon in design (mostly bosses so Crusade shines). And your overall dps was lower than what I remember doing w-o legendary cloak.

Well there's all that for starters. Is Crusade/Zeal bad? I'll admit it was a last minute decision to spec for more AoE without going full yolo Greater Judgment. I actually do appreciate the critique.

[Neldarie]

Well if the instance is more of what usual instances are like I'd always go for Greater Judgement for sure. And well Crusade vs DP ya can argue I guess. I feel DP gives ya alot more for trashclearing tho: be it JVs if stuff is like demons from ashbringer stun or just more storms esp with leg cloak. Higher you go usually trash becomes more and more of a problem relative to bosses.

Like main problem is that you can't respec mid mythic+ run so need to decide with what ya will be going with for the whole clear. Ret can be a very strong ST burst (crusade etc) or ya can be a pretty strong/efficient cleave/ae clear. But I don't think you can take both at the same time which is the biggest "drawback".

Of course you won't ever be taking stupid crap like Divine Hammer for a 5man, but ye ya have to consider things like : GJ vs Fires/Zeal, DP vs Crusade. Those alone will impact your performances on specific things in a big enough way. And I guess with Crusade Zeal works out pretty decent but ye. Outside of those wings its just falling down the crater with no bottom looking at the meters when it ends or isn't there.

[Deleted]

New sims... for what they are worth


Can you idiots take a step back from the ledge now?

Omg, this is awesome! Ret paly is 10th of 12 classes!!! Everyone rejoice! And 7th of 9 melee, with ww being 200dps behind, but with better everything else and much more fun!
All is well
If those are patchwerk fight sims, ret is screwed because it suffers the most from fight being anything other than patchwerk, target switching, aoe, cleave, mobility will take a hit on ret dps the most. Worst mobility and 0 flexibility baseline.

[marinos]

Omg, this is awesome! Ret paly is 10th of 12 classes!!! Everyone rejoice! And 6th of 7 melee, with ww being 200dps behind, but with better everything else and much more fun!
All is well
If those are patchwerk fight sims, ret is screwed because it suffers the most from fight being anything other than patchwerk, target switching, aoe, cleave, mobility will take a hit on ret dps the most. Worst mobility and 0 flexibility baseline.

Mobility aint that bad,in most of EN fights you can even go without Cavalier but on the rest you are right, on cleave/aoe and target switch we are going to suffer.

[OrcsRLame]

@Neldarie Responding to all your edits. I knew that Vault of the Wardens was a bit more single target, which is why I didn't go for big dick AoE. I thought a hybrid build would work out better, and I'm reasonably pleased with the results. I mean, I don't think I could have done much better at 850 ilvl. Hell, the fact that I kept up with the tank on AoE and did good on bosses is proof of concept imo. You can't really call lack of skill on that one, it's Slootbag after all, and he had 24 ilvl on me. I feel like in most cases a tank is going to beat a dps on AoE if they have 24 ilvl on them, assuming both are played equally well and you're not talking about one of the blatantly OP specs like fire mage.

I would think at higher mythic+ it'd be a pretty easy choice what to spec. Fortified = all the AoE you can get, Tyrannical = big dick single target, no? And while it's true that on Ash'golm other people didn't have their CDs and I got two rounds of CDs on Cordana, doesn't that mean that that's one of ret's strengths? I mean, it's not like people used CDs at bad times as far as I saw. My CDs just came up faster. I know UH DK's gargoyle is 3 minutes. Don't know about BM hunter.

[Neldarie]

Wasn't calling you out for the lack of skill or anything. I just said as you pointed out that Vault is a pretty crappy instance. I would still never spec Zeal tho I guess and rather go GJ for even more overall. And ye 2minute cd if abused/used correctly is definately one of the ret's strengths.

[OrcsRLame]

Wasn't calling you out for the lack of skill or anything. I just said as you pointed out that Vault is a pretty crappy instance. I would still never spec Zeal tho I guess and rather go GJ for even more overall. And ye 2minute cd if abused/used correctly is definately one of the ret's strengths.

I know you didn't mean it that way. I was more of commenting on the skill of the other group members. Obviously I can't vouch for the DK or hunter. I already know where I stand skill wise. I'm good enough but I make mistakes here and there.

[xxcloud417xx]

I honestly think it's going to be one of those middle of the pack DPS until like 2nd or 3rd tier and then they will propel much closer to the top. The way they work mechanically has me thinking that they will scale really well with gear and as we clear some higher tiers, they're going to get significantly better because of high gear stats. Particularly Haste.

Best offer I can give is tough it out for a bit and then you'll reap the rewards for your patience.

[Ianus]

I honestly think it's going to be one of those middle of the pack DPS until like 2nd or 3rd tier and then they will propel much closer to the top. The way they work mechanically has me thinking that they will scale really well with gear and as we clear some higher tiers, they're going to get significantly better because of high gear stats. Particularly Haste.

Best offer I can give is tough it out for a bit and then you'll reap the rewards for your patience.

yeah maybe, but i am sure fury will be top 3 even though its crap now. just because they scale like crazy

[Deleted]

When no one comments on your live dungeon run because everyone is too busy discussing a crackpot sim. FeelsBadMan

sry, but no Slootbag without tranqs...

[Deleted]

Running between mob packs is frigging horrible as Ret, everyone else uses their short CD leaps/sprints/blinks and we either wait for combat to end to mount or trudge along at a crawl.

God I can't wait to get those runspeed boot legendaries, screw dps. You can't dps if you can't reach the mobs at the same speed as everyone else xD

[Keiyra]

Running between mob packs is frigging horrible as Ret, everyone else uses their short CD leaps/sprints/blinks and we either wait for combat to end to mount or trudge along at a crawl.

God I can't wait to get those runspeed boot legendaries, screw dps. You can't dps if you can't reach the mobs at the same speed as everyone else xD

You can use your speed boost in combat - you don;t have to wait for combat to drop