How can people say now that Sylvanas isnt evil ?

[Deleted]

We are talking about Genn Greymane, that person was never driven by noble goals, but rather greed and ambition, who then reaped the consequences of his choices as a ruler, which led to the utter ruin of his people and Kingdom, on top of that cursing them, loosing his son in the process. His whole motivation, concerning Sylvanas and the forsaken is vengeance, nothing more, nothing less.

I don't say that Genn is a Paladin in Heart, but what he did was still just in by eyes. Sylvanas and her people have still a future, just like everyone else. The only difference is, Sylvanas will not become immortal, at some day she has to die and face Judgement like everyone else. And some forces judged her unworthy of being redeemed and saved. That proves, she is somehow evil. She did things that can't be forgiven, in the end even Illidan seems to be considered worth of redemption by the Light, but Sylvanas not. After all, what she did to Gilneas was simply evil. Genn couldn't do something that isn't justified, after the attacked a country that never harmed her people, slaughtered it's citizens and killed the Prince.

There are ways in which the Forsaken could survive, commiting the worsed crimes of both Factions is not such a way.

[Combatbutler]

I wouldn't say Greymane was ever guided by greed and ambition, he kind of always had the interests of his kingdom in mind; it's more the fact that he was used to be quite a dick about it and to make equally dick choices, be it shit over the rest of humanity or sacrifice a chunk of his kingdom to ensure the safety of the rest. He was used to see Gilneas as a power that needed to stand on its own and never valued the notion of genuine allies if not to take utter advantage from them. Indeed, such behavior is one of the reasons why those choices ended up causing more harm to his people than good.

So yeah, Genn was never moved by literal "noble" intentions even though he can't be considered "selfish" either. Even this "vengeance" Genn desired was achievable because the rest of his people shared the majority of that sentiment and backed him up without much hesitation.

Considering the stakes he had in Lordaeron during the second war trying to advance his kingdoms power and standing, I'd still say he was driven by ambition and to a degree by greed. Sure he cared for his people, but he wanted power for his kingdom and lots of it, but once he realized he couldn't get it, he literally walled himself and his kingdom in.

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I don't say that Genn is a Paladin in Heart, but what he did was still just in by eyes. Sylvanas and her people have still a future, just like everyone else. The only difference is, Sylvanas will not become immortal, at some day she has to die and face Judgement like everyone else. And some forces judged her unworthy of being redeemed and saved. That proves, she is somehow evil. She did things that can't be forgiven, in the end even Illidan seems to be considered worth of redemption by the Light, but Sylvanas not. After all, what she did to Gilneas was simply evil. Genn couldn't do something that isn't justified, after the attacked a country that never harmed her people, slaughtered it's citizens and killed the Prince.

There are ways in which the Forsaken could survive, commiting the worsed crimes of both Factions is not such a way.

Oh what Sylvanas did was evil not denying it, but that is what forsaken do all day long, which is fine.

Genn Greymane merely had luck, there was another monarch with a similar mindset, Anasterian he too reaped the consequences of his ultimate choice to leave the Alliance after the second war, but at least some of his kin fought against the scourge during the third war through their alliance with the Kirin tor. Gilneas on the other hand stood idly by despite pleas of help from Lordearon.

It was rather ironic that several years later the very people Genn Greymane left to die to the scourge were the ones to sack his homeland. Pretty much every great disaster that plagued the gilneans in recent years were the result of genn's decisions.

[Karrotlord]

I don't say that Genn is a Paladin in Heart, but what he did was still just in by eyes. Sylvanas and her people have still a future, just like everyone else. The only difference is, Sylvanas will not become immortal, at some day she has to die and face Judgement like everyone else. And some forces judged her unworthy of being redeemed and saved. That proves, she is somehow evil. She did things that can't be forgiven, in the end even Illidan seems to be considered worth of redemption by the Light, but Sylvanas not. After all, what she did to Gilneas was simply evil. Genn couldn't do something that isn't justified, after the attacked a country that never harmed her people, slaughtered it's citizens and killed the Prince.

There are ways in which the Forsaken could survive, commiting the worsed crimes of both Factions is not such a way.

A country that never harmed her people? It's because of Genn and his wall that a lot of those Forsaken came to exist. I wonder how many of them were jumping at the chance for revenge for him not allowing them safety from the Scourge? I also wonder if the irony is lost on the Gilneans.

[RedNight at MMOC]

Sylvanas attempted to bind the Val'kyr to her will and even subdued their queen for a time. While she appears to be evil to the Alliance and maybe even neutral factions on Azeroth, she looks like a capable leader to the Forsaken and she is willing to to anything to protect the future of herself and her people.

[Qualia]

A country that never harmed her people? It's because of Genn and his wall that a lot of those Forsaken came to exist. I wonder how many of them were jumping at the chance for revenge for him not allowing them safety from the Scourge? I also wonder if the irony is lost on the Gilneans.

To be fair, that is technically not true. It's true that Gilneas didn't help the refugee, but they never harmed them either (at least none that we know of). I can see that the Forsaken might have grudges against Gilneas, but Gilneas wasn't the one who harmed them.

[Combatbutler]

Sylvanas attempted to bind the Val'kyr to her will and even subdued their queen for a time. While she appears to be evil to the Alliance and maybe even neutral factions on Azeroth, she looks like a capable leader to the Forsaken and she is willing to to anything to protect the future of herself and her people.

She is evil, sure she has reasons for what she does, but it doesn't change the fact that her actions are quite despicable from time to time.

[Ersula]

A country that never harmed her people? It's because of Genn and his wall that a lot of those Forsaken came to exist. I wonder how many of them were jumping at the chance for revenge for him not allowing them safety from the Scourge? I also wonder if the irony is lost on the Gilneans.

Feral Worgen were escaping the Gilnean quarenteen constantly, putting Lordaeron citizens in danger. Sylvanas doing nothing about that would have been amoral.

[Deleted]

A country that never harmed her people? It's because of Genn and his wall that a lot of those Forsaken came to exist. I wonder how many of them were jumping at the chance for revenge for him not allowing them safety from the Scourge? I also wonder if the irony is lost on the Gilneans.

So you say that Gilneas alone would have been able to stop the Scourge?

And I'm pretty sure most of the Forsaken until Cataclysm simply died by eating some bad stuff. That was how the Scourge annihilated Lordaeron in the first place, with the plague of undead.

[RedNight at MMOC]

She is evil, sure she has reasons for what she does, but it doesn't change the fact that her actions are quite despicable from time to time.

Once again, the concept of evil is subjective. You can argue all you want about your specific viewpoint, but it does not change this fact.

[Friendlyimmolation]

So you say that Gilneas alone would have been able to stop the Scourge?

And I'm pretty sure most of the Forsaken until Cataclysm simply died by eating some bad stuff. That was how the Scourge annihilated Lordaeron in the first place, with the plague of undead.

Mawyren and Falcric butchered the citizens of Capitol city and raised them into undead, the undead spread across quickly and killed anyone they find. Arthas thinks of this when hes running to Invincible's grave.

[Combatbutler]

Once again, the concept of evil is subjective. You can argue all you want about your specific viewpoint, but it does not change this fact.

And? It could also be argued that the legion itself isn't evil, since their goal through the eradication of all life in the universe, is to stop the void from consuming it. The fact is in universe Sylvanas's actions are not seen as favorable, neither are they from our perspective. She is evil, but what is so bad about it?

She isn't written as a kind and understanding person, but rather utterly ruthless, arrogant and scheming.

[RedNight at MMOC]

And? It could also be argued that the legion itself isn't evil, since their goal through the eradication of all life in the universe, is to stop the void from consuming it.

Exactly. So is the Sargeras truly evil if his goal is trying to save creation?

[Deleted]

Gilneas on the other hand stood idly by despite pleas of help from Lordearon.

It was rather ironic that several years later the very people Genn Greymane left to die to the scourge were the ones to sack his homeland. Pretty much every great disaster that plagued the gilneans in recent years were the result of genn's decisions.

A country that never harmed her people? It's because of Genn and his wall that a lot of those Forsaken came to exist. I wonder how many of them were jumping at the chance for revenge for him not allowing them safety from the Scourge? I also wonder if the irony is lost on the Gilneans.

according to the new diary in brandesbrook the denizens of pyrewood village were hearing dark howls at nights inside the greymane wall BEFORE the scourge of lordaeron was in silverpine/pyrewood. and they thought that a darker evil was lying in gilneas and that's why they never even tried to ask for help. so they decided to run instead. they just left pyrewood and survived. that's why other survivors never got in gilneas. not because they didn't want them in but because there was no one to answer. the curse of the worgen had started. there is no evidence in lore that gilneas dinied the entrance of survivors. none. the survivors thought that gilneas wasn't answering in purpose but tha truth was that a dark evil already had took place in there. remember the quests in vanilia? everything implied that no one had seen any sign of life from gilneas for years, guess why.

[Combatbutler]

Exactly. So is the Sargeras truly evil if his goal is trying to save creation?

Considering the scale of extermination I'd say yes. A being of his caliber had other options, he shot himself in the foot by killing the other Titans and starting the purge instead of uniting the universe under the titan banner fighting the void wherever it appears. His actions just make it easier for the void to take over in the end.

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according to the new diary in brandesbrook the denizens of pyrewood village were hearing dark howls at nights inside the greymane wall BEFORE the scourge of lordaeron was in silverpine/pyrewood. and they thought that a darker evil was lying in gilneas and that's why they never even tried to ask for help. so they decided to run instead. they just left pyrewood and survived. that's why other survivors never got in gilneas. not because they didn't want them in but because there was no one to answer. the curse of the worgen had started. there is no evidence in lore that gilneas dinied the entrance of survivors. none. the survivors thought that gilneas wasn't answering in purpose but tha truth was that a dark evil already had took place in there. remember the quests in vanilia? everything implied that no one had seen any sign of life from gilneas for years, guess why.

Genn brought the worgen curse upon his people, because he ordered arugal to summon the very first night elven worgen pack to Azeroth from the emerlad dream, which then spread the curse uncontrollably.

[Aquamonkey]

Khadgar is a pretty cool dude. He calls Sargeras "the Evil One."

[Deleted]

Genn brought the worgen curse upon his people, because he ordered arugal to summon the very first night elven worgen pack to Azeroth from the emerlad dream, which then spread the curse uncontrollably.

do you hate genn and the gilneans? i'm just qurious because i start to like him more than varian. he looked so awesome and cool in the newest cinematic i wish the alliance had more like him. at least he is not boring. it seems blizzard focusing a lot around him and although anduin is the king, genn is the frontline character for the alliance the one who represent it. gilnean forces everywhere in the broken isles. genn shows up and talk in you in every pvp area. gilnean rename and troops in dalaran alliance side. new gilnean vicious mount from pvp. blizzard want to tell us something but im not sure what.

[Combatbutler]

do you hate genn and the gilneans? i'm just qurious because i start to like him more than varian. he looked so awesome and cool in the newest cinematic i wish the alliance had more like him. at least he is not boring. it seems blizzard focusing a lot around him and although anduin is the king, genn is the frontline character for the alliance the one who represent it. gilnean forces everywhere in the broken isles. genn shows up and talk in you in every pvp area. gilnean rename and troops in dalaran alliance side. new gilnean vicious mount from pvp. blizzard want to tell us something but im not sure what.

I don't hate him, I just know the shit he has done over the years, these are his greatest sins and portray the character flaws of him. These action make him more human.

[Deleted]

I don't hate him, I just know the shit he has done over the years, these are his greatest sins and portray the character flaws of him. These action make him more human.

i agree actually. but that is one of the good things about greymane. he is not perfect and has small or big flaws. at least that is not make him a boring character. personally i believe he suffered way too much and he still continues to suffer for sure so it is safe to say that he paid for his past sins.

[Combatbutler]

i agree actually. but that is one of the good things about greymane. he is not perfect and has small or big flaws. at least that is not make him a boring character. personally i believe he suffered way too much and he still continues to suffer for sure so it is safe to say that he paid for his past sins.

He still has his daughter and wife and his people are still around, other characters who made similar choices are not so lucky, prime example Anasterian, Quel'thalas sacked 90% of the race dead and the royal lineage entirely gone in the end.

[Hallowseve17]

She's definitely lawful evil or chaotic neutral.