Withered training: tanks vs everyone else, how to balance?

[Krazzorx]

It's been a long established fact that tanks can just destroy everything with little to no effort in questing. Normally it's just considered a nice perk, which it is.

But then every so often content like the withered training is created. And here, tanks (esp heavy self healing ones) just absolutely break the intended way to do the scenario basically.

While it certainly would be an awful idea to nerf them now for this scenario for many reasons, how in the future can they start addressing this? The fact that any outdoor/small group content breaks the second a tank appears.

Yes, they did it with Brawler's guild, but that's not really something that can't be applied to content that all spectrums of skill levels will do.

[Elbob]

if the content is limited to things like withered army training, I don't think certain specs having advantages matters at all. This isn't some ranked scenario, everyone will easily beat it eventually. Just cause a tank can clear it on their 2nd time in doesn't mean anything needs a re-work.

[Dracodraco]

if the content is limited to things like withered army training, I don't think certain specs having advantages matters at all. This isn't some ranked scenario, everyone will easily beat it eventually. Just cause a tank can clear it on their 2nd time in doesn't mean anything needs a re-work.

It does sort of suck when good performance is tied to a rep reward, though; ment the difference between unlocking and not unlocking the new dungeons first reset for some of our raiders.

[Zulandia]

It's not really a big deal. On my mage my first two clears were enough for max rep (400+ score for 450 rep) before doing heroics for gear; so right around 800 ilvl and my third one now that I am geared around 843 was already a full clear with 42 withered at the end (before backtracking and sending them out for chests).

As is I should have all the one time chests cleared out after my next one then it's just grinding the rep out of it.

[Eats Compost]

To me, it makes more sense for things like this to take place with a predefined set of abilities, like the Huln Highmountain quests or whatever.

[Kiea]

Not everyone will be able to do everything equally, stop trying to make it so.

You lose nothing on this rep grind, because even if you completely skip the withered training, you will still unlock The Arcway and Court of Stars during week 2 of the expansion, aslong as you do all the other content.

[Dracodraco]

Not everyone will be able to do everything equally, stop trying to make it so.

You lose nothing on this rep grind, because even if you completely skip the withered training, you will still unlock The Arcway and Court of Stars during week 2 of the expansion, aslong as you do all the other content.

So you lose a reset, then. That's not "nothing".

[Deleted]

I've done the scenario 4 times on my fire mage and ever since the 2nd attempt I managed to get to 400 score without any problem. Sure it's easier for tanks, melees and healers, but it's not really hard for casters either.

[Aggrophobic]

Not everyone will be able to do everything equally, stop trying to make it so.

You lose nothing on this rep grind, because even if you completely skip the withered training, you will still unlock The Arcway and Court of Stars during week 2 of the expansion, aslong as you do all the other content.

A week behind is a pretty huge deal though.

[Kiea]

So you lose a reset, then. That's not "nothing".

A week behind is a pretty huge deal though.

If you get it day 1 of the reset or day 3 of the reset, or day 7 of the reset, you will still be able to complete it during week 2.

Now I am aware that if you do everything perfectly you were able to unlock it on tuesday in EU, however this is only relevant to the top guilds, where if I may remind you, they all know how to get to 425 rep and it is possible as every class if you do a little research and take your time.

Stop thinking you are in a top guild. If you were, you would know how to do this scenario to get the 425 rep.

[Dracodraco]

If you get it day 1 of the reset or day 3 of the reset, or day 7 of the reset, you will still be able to complete it during week 2.

Now I am aware that if you do everything perfectly you were able to unlock it on tuesday in EU, however this is only relevant to the top guilds, where if I may remind you, they all know how to get to 425 rep and it is possible as every class if you do a little research and take your time.

Stop thinking you are in a top guild. If you were, you would know how to do this scenario to get the 425 rep.

Who said I didn't get max rep? Other bugs with the instance (such as the whole "don't die to environment damage or you don't get any rewards AT ALL-thing) kept me from it, but hey. You're right, getting to 400+ points isn't overly difficult.

I'm simply stating it's annoying as fuck that it's so much more difficult on a healer or a ranged DPS, than a tank, and when rep gates strong gear there really shouldn't be this much of a difference. I can faceroll it on my blood DK alt. I have to actually think and make smart pulls and use of cooldowns on my hunter with 30 item levels more. My priest is essentially dead weight in there. It's doable and after you get a few scenarios done (and such, collect some of the gear) it gets easier. THat's just not a help super early on.

[Aggrophobic]

If you get it day 1 of the reset or day 3 of the reset, or day 7 of the reset, you will still be able to complete it during week 2.

Now I am aware that if you do everything perfectly you were able to unlock it on tuesday in EU, however this is only relevant to the top guilds, where if I may remind you, they all know how to get to 425 rep and it is possible as every class if you do a little research and take your time.

Stop thinking you are in a top guild. If you were, you would know how to do this scenario to get the 425 rep.

I've done it every time. Not everyone is able to though.

[Mammoon]

The rewards don't improve after like 400 points. It is very easy to get 400 points as any dps spec.

In a week or two everyone (who is serious about it) will have all the chests opened and it will be easy for them... and they will realize there isn't much to do in it but grind your 425 rep and move on. Balancing withered training isn't something Blizz should focus their attention on unless they plan on expanding this in literally every content patch.

[Binaris]

It does sort of suck when good performance is tied to a rep reward, though; ment the difference between unlocking and not unlocking the new dungeons first reset for some of our raiders.

So tell me again how it is a bad thing that due to this "issue" there will be more tanks available for the dungeons vs dps?

[Woop Woop]

The rewards don't improve after like 400 points. It is very easy to get 400 points as any dps spec.

In a week or two everyone (who is serious about it) will have all the chests opened and it will be easy for them... and they will realize there isn't much to do in it but grind your 425 rep and move on. Balancing withered training isn't something Blizz should focus their attention on unless they plan on expanding this in literally every content patch.

It wasn't easy as shadow, I got to where there were tons of small spiders, and lacking an aoe, it took a lot of time and some of my withered died (around 120, i only had 10 withered but still, dont say all dps specs has it easy)

[Freedom]

Speaking as a Blood DK, working as intended.

(Not really - I tried it the first time as Frost, and not having to worry about your own life is HUGE. It'd be nice if you could get a super tanky withered or one that can heal, or both).

[Strawberry]

Damn I must suck terribly at this if tanks are so op. I'm a 844 ilvl DH tank and it's gone to shit for me.
I've done the scenarion about 4-5 times now, and my first run was my best. I need to read up on guides because my withered keep dying from aoe, especially those mana mobs who explode. I can't dps them down fast enough unless I have 15 withered.
And then picking up chests mean withered disappear so I lose DPS.

[Adramelch]

1)my withered keep dying from aoe, especially those mana mobs who explode. I can't dps them down fast enough unless I have 15 withered.
2)And then picking up chests mean withered disappear so I lose DPS.

1) If you can't interrupt the cast, run away from your withered. As for the last explosion, make sure you keep some kind of CC (stun, disorient, incapacitate, knockback etc) for it as it's uninterruptible.
2) First make sure you get the proper score, then go back and pick up chests.

[Deleted]

It's been a long established fact that tanks can just destroy everything with little to no effort in questing. Normally it's just considered a nice perk, which it is.

But then every so often content like the withered training is created. And here, tanks (esp heavy self healing ones) just absolutely break the intended way to do the scenario basically.

While it certainly would be an awful idea to nerf them now for this scenario for many reasons, how in the future can they start addressing this? The fact that any outdoor/small group content breaks the second a tank appears.

Yes, they did it with Brawler's guild, but that's not really something that can't be applied to content that all spectrums of skill levels will do.

How do tanks break it?

[Deix-EU]

Damn I must suck terribly at this if tanks are so op. I'm a 844 ilvl DH tank and it's gone to shit for me.
I've done the scenarion about 4-5 times now, and my first run was my best. I need to read up on guides because my withered keep dying from aoe, especially those mana mobs who explode. I can't dps them down fast enough unless I have 15 withered.
And then picking up chests mean withered disappear so I lose DPS.

Keep pain full for last 20% and activate your artifact skill + mayem = mob instant death with at least 10 Withered.