Getting hammered in mythics, veng DH

[Varmin]

Make sure you have cast bars on name plates and use Demon Spikes when a melee mob casts something at you. Mythics can easily be done starting 820. Some minor CC depending on what dungeon might be needed.

[Saybel]

Whatever. I'm at 11% Versatility, 44% Mastery and 29% Crit and I can take on pretty much every mythic dungeon boss w/o a healer. Yeah, haste gives you less recharge time between Demon Spikes, but you only need to use them when you take physical damage for an extended period.

11% versi is 5.5% damage reduction lol. Do you really think 5.5% is the difference between dying and living?

[Tech614]

11% versi is 5.5% damage reduction lol. Do you really think 5.5% is the difference between dying and living?

Not to be that guy, but yes if you where in a situation cutting it that close(which you shouldn't be) then 5.5% DR and 11% extra healing will be the difference in living or dying. Hell technically .5% could be.

[simonlvschal]

I'm at ilvl 825, been running through heroics without any issues, did mythic black rook last night and felt like I was
Getting rocked, mainly by trash pulls, not a lot of issues on boss fights. But the group I was running with didn't use any cc the entire run....most of the hear I have is vers/haste/mast.

Would it be a cc issue, demon spike is up id say at least 90% of the time, what am I missing or is a matter of getting my not so tanky items replaced?

first of all. Haste is Trash for DH tank. 2nd Mastery and versi is Must have. 3rd Learn to tank lol if you know how to propper tank u will not die. 4th Dh veng is a active mitigation tank class. meaning u have to activate your abilites constantly. and be up on your toes few mistakes can happen..

i am a 847 Veng tank my self i rarely die and i can solo a few mythic bosses myself because i keep a constant eye on my Hp and ability

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11% versi is 5.5% damage reduction lol. Do you really think 5.5% is the difference between dying and living?

really you dont know math do you? 5.5% damage reduction is far superior to 0. or anything else. and also if something does 1mil dmg aka 55k damage is taken off that. or well depends on how and what comes first.

and i tanked Mythic Vh at 795 abit trouble cause VH has some very high dmg monsters

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Think I'm going to trust this guide more than you:
http://www.icy-veins.com/wow/vengean...-stat-priority

Crit is the worst stat for survival, aside from the immensely small amount of parry it gives you also need to crit on soul cleave to really gain anything out of it. Haste is great to increase the up-time of your demon spikes, which also happens to give you parry...

I've tanked all 8 mythic dungeons as vengeance without any problems, went in there with about 815 or some such item level. I'd highly recommend that you make use of your sigil of fear and imprisonment spell, some packs (especially two certain wrathguards up some stairs) deal a lot of damage and until you get used to it you really should make use of your entire toolkit to survive.

The second last boss for example moves really slowly at all times, the more damage he deals to you the more often he will use his Brutal Haymaker. If the damage becomes too much don't hesitate to use your infernal strike to create distance, be it on a boss or trash pack it can give your healer several seconds to heal you back up as well as refresh your demon spikes.

i wouldn't trust any of those guides.. Haste is bad for DH tanks.. you have the Talent that reduces the CD on demon spike constantly.. and also last talent should always be the Shield.. it can take up to 700k damage. before going away., Mastery is a must have and Versi.
aswell. Reason simple.. Selfhealing is very high

[Saybel]

really you dont know math do you? 5.5% damage reduction is far superior to 0. or anything else. and also if something does 1mil dmg aka 55k damage is taken off that. or well depends on how and what comes first.

I know what that 5.5% off 100 is 94.5. That's not beyond my comprehension, that's not "OMG BEST STAT EVER YOU ARE TRASH IF YOU DONT HAVE IT" if you look at mastery.

Also 11% versi is like 4400 which is a trash amount of versi. It's also 12% mastery which translates to roughly 15% AP so you get 15% more healing from the AP portion of soul cleave and do 15% flat more damage (instead of 11) and take 12% less damage with demon spikes up which has a higher than 50% uptime

And you take fuck all magical damage if you can press intterupt lol. people are acting like he is dying because he has no versi but it is because he has an L2P issue, it doesn't matter what stats you have on your gear because it's 100% gameplay that keeps you alive.

rather take crit over versi to kill the pack faster since you take less damage

CAN YOU EVEN DO MATH BRO

well done at tanking vh btw you are great player

[simonlvschal]

I know what that 5.5% off 100 is 94.5. That's not beyond my comprehension, that's not "OMG BEST STAT EVER YOU ARE TRASH IF YOU DONT HAVE IT" if you look at mastery.

Also 11% versi is like 4400 which is a trash amount of versi. It's also 12% mastery which translates to roughly 15% AP so you get 15% more healing from the AP portion of soul cleave and do 15% flat more damage (instead of 11) and take 12% less damage with demon spikes up which has a higher than 50% uptime

And you take fuck all magical damage if you can press intterupt lol. people are acting like he is dying because he has no versi but it is because he has an L2P issue, it doesn't matter what stats you have on your gear because it's 100% gameplay that keeps you alive.

rather take crit over versi to kill the pack faster since you take less damage

CAN YOU EVEN DO MATH BRO

well done at tanking vh btw you are great player

eh yes it matters with stats lol.. a person with 0 versi is going to be worse regardless of skill compared to the one with 11%. and no 11% is nor 4400.. its closer to 3k then 4k. and also mastery is only physical damage reduction.. while versi is all kinds of damage.. magic and phys. plus the healing extra i get is giving me a roughly 10k per hit from soul cleve. and 30-60k from 5 stacks...

and no its not gameplay idiot. really l2p.. Gameplay is 30% of it while 70% of it is stats. if u had no mastery or versi u would die from one hit by cordana in Mythic.. she litterly hits 1,5mil per kick with damage reduction and even the Crab in VH does 3mil with no dmg reduc.

So please do some myths before you talk.

[aikanaro]

Lol.. I think it's hilarious that you are all saying haste and versatility are useless.. let's say you use feed the demon.. haste lowers gcd which raises soul fragment spawn speed which lowers the cd of demon spikes and ups healing and damage.. and also increases uptime on immolation aura and the cooldown of felblade and more chances to reset felblade all of which also increase your healing from charred warblades... not to mention if you have the cloak or ring that gives them more benefit also.

Versatility is better than mastery because mastery only reduces physical and gives you minimal damage and healing. Versatility reduces all damage taken not just physical and also increases damage and healing. To the guy who says lol l2 interupt.. not everything is interruptable and even as a be with 2 silence and an interrupt, I still can't interrupt every cast.

[vulena]

rather take crit over versi to kill the pack faster since you take less damage

Guaranteed dmg reduction and increased damage and healing vs. potential extra damage from what should be the 4th place dps in the group?

Just... just no. Stop talking.

[Saybel]

Guaranteed dmg reduction and increased damage and healing vs. potential extra damage from what should be the 4th place dps in the group?

Just... just no. Stop talking.

"TANK DAMAGE DOESNT MATTER GO FOR FLAT DR"

lol dh forums

I'm so done, cya

[aikanaro]

"TANK DAMAGE DOESNT MATTER GO FOR FLAT DR"

lol dh forums

I'm so done, cya

Tanks dps doesn't matter =/= to crit being worst stat for survival, not to mention you do not damage if you die, and likely neither does the group because you died.

[Tech614]

Tanks dps doesn't matter

Yea because having aoe damage potential on par with the strongest aoe dps isn't going to do anything for your survival in 5 mans where the trash is the only thing threatening right?

Oh wait...

[Feawen]

BRH and VoW are the hardest when it comes to trash on Veng and well most tanks right now. As most will find out once keystones start next week. It's not about the bosses in mythic +, it's the trash.

[Xaikar]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...oth/Xai/simple

My Item level 834 stats according to the out of date armory as I am 844 IL now

Crit: 30.95%
Haste: 12.65%
Mastery: 30.08%
Leech: 0.00%
Versatility: 8.93%
Avoidance: 0.00%

I focused a bit into haste nothing that I am going HAM for but it will be nice once you can reach a hate cap for almost 100% demon spikes uptime. I will be hoping to write a guide for the proven defender like I did for my warrior.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YWOrVTP7jQ

[Meanshield]

11% versi is 5.5% damage reduction lol. Do you really think 5.5% is the difference between dying and living?

it all adds up.

[vulena]

"TANK DAMAGE DOESNT MATTER GO FOR FLAT DR"

lol dh forums

I'm so done, cya

Good, you literally are not a contributor of value.

Tank dmg does matter, which is why I mentioned the increase Vers gives you, because apparently in your brilliant theorycrafting you've forgotten this? The point was reliable versus non-reliable. Crit isn't reliable. Vers always is.

Have fun pissing off whatever pugs gets stuck with you.

[Xaikar]

Good, you literally are not a contributor of value.

Tank dmg does matter, which is why I mentioned the increase Vers gives you, because apparently in your brilliant theorycrafting you've forgotten this? The point was reliable versus non-reliable. Crit isn't reliable. Vers always is.

Have fun pissing off whatever pugs gets stuck with you.

Oh children... Tank Damage does not matter kinda if your dps are doing their jobs. Coordinate kicks, stuns, fears, silencing sigils and make sure you are helping go crazy dps running stuns etc. Tank AOE damage is what really matter keeping up immolation aura etc is a must are you on a single target pull but about to pull an aoe pack maybe save the 8 second cd for the AOE pack etc etc.

[vulena]

Oh children... Tank Damage does not matter kinda if your dps are doing their jobs. Coordinate kicks, stuns, fears, silencing sigils and make sure you are helping go crazy dps running stuns etc. Tank AOE damage is what really matter keeping up immolation aura etc is a must are you on a single target pull but about to pull an aoe pack maybe save the 8 second cd for the AOE pack etc etc.

...okay? You know vers improves AoE dmg too, yeah? And that I never said ST? And that I mentioned survivability up above?

Or did you just have half a point and needed to quote someone

[Littlepwny]

Tanks dps doesn't matter =/= to crit being worst stat for survival, not to mention you do not damage if you die, and likely neither does the group because you died.

You should read the sentence until the full-stop before replying to a post.

As for the topic at hand, crit is objectively the worse survivability stat and should not be encouraged on someone that has severe incoming damage issues. Crit has its applications and is the top DPS stat (making it optimal under certain conditions) but it is unlikely to be the culprit of the problem for someone that requires advice, especially if your DPS are doing mythic appropriate damage.

In certain cases, crit % can be the solution to the problem due to the extra DPS provided but dying to the trash of a dungeon (non-Keystone Mythic) should not be happening even if your DPS cannot burst down the adds fast. Tank damage will be important in Keystone Mythics, however, where speed (without dying!) is extremely important.

Since you are struggling with Mythics, my advise is to fix the survivability by gearing appropriately and optimising the usage of your souls and mitigation talents (read some guides and improve your UI) before worrying too much about the gear. Once you are comfortable with the incoming damage, you can also start transition to a more crit based gear.

[Emek]

Well since this thread has devolved into stat discussion i'll just say -

Be aware of 3 things

1) Demon spikes, and your empowered ward abilities. Making sure to use those at ideal times will ensure the damage you take is "smooth" and not just huge dick smashing amounts of damage.

2) be aware of your soul fragments. don't just smash soul cleave when you have enough hatred. Make sure you put some fragments out there with IA, and soul carver. My hatred gen is usually slow enough to where i usually always have a few on the ground before i hit soul cleave. I try to avoid over healing with it.

3) sigils. since you're getting shit on during trash, make sure you're grouping up casters with silence. you're using your misery to help stop some of the big hits from mele adds. I personally take chains in dungeons because it's just so nice to get that grip in there.

I take fel devastation and the healing is mega nice for big pulls. i can usually heal back most of the damage from big packs with that. by the time the ability is done the mobs should be close to dying.

Veng actually does a SHIT ton of damage so you should be shitting on trash packs in all honesty. if mobs are dying slowly and your healer can't keep up and you're dying a lot there's probably a lot of wrong going on. I suggest watching streams or something. I've honestly not had a single problem tanking and I main havoc. Just started tanking for the bags and it's been a blast\easy with no prior knowledge of knowing how to play veng

[ethanfel]

If i can add my stone.

I have focused my gear on mastery crit (48% of mastery and 32% crit, 848 ilevel), low vers and only 11% of haste. Well, i'm doing well enough in mythic. Did them all, already downed the last 30% of some boss by myself ( first of black rook for exemple, i should be able to solo 100% of the boss by myself) or easily self healing the 15-20% of many boss.

Mastery/Crit definitively feel like the way to go for dungeons. High DPS, High healing.