Colin Kaepernick: I won't stand 'to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses

[May90]

there is a $1000 fine for stomping and burning the United states flag.
but it doesnt get enforced.

Of course it doesn't. Pretty sure it is even anti-constitutional.

[Traveler Voltin]

Of course it doesn't. Pretty sure it is even anti-constitutional.

maybe but the law exists.

[TZucchini]

there is a $1000 fine for stomping and burning the United states flag.
but it doesnt get enforced.

I highly doubt that. Flag desecration is legal.

Maybe if you destroy someone else's property. Or create a fire in public.

But no. Not just for burning the flag.

[Traveler Voltin]

I highly doubt that. Flag desecration is legal.

Maybe if you destroy someone else's property. Or create a fire in public.

But no. Not just for burning the flag.

retiring a flag by burning it is legal.
burning a flag out of spite is not.

[May90]

retiring a flag by burning it is legal.
burning a flag out of spite is not.

Can't find any source backing up your claim. Here is what I found instead:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_d...#United_States

"The United States Supreme Court in Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397 (1989), and reaffirmed in U.S. v. Eichman, 496 U.S. 310 (1990), has ruled that due to the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, it is unconstitutional for a government (whether federal, state, or municipality) to prohibit the desecration of a flag, due to its status as "symbolic speech." However, content-neutral restrictions may still be imposed to regulate the time, place, and manner of such expression. And if the flag that was burned was someone else's property (as it was in the Johnson case, as Johnson had stolen the flag from a Texas bank's flagpole), they could be charged with petty larceny (a flag usually sells at retail for less than USD 20), or with destruction of private property, or possibly both."

[TZucchini]

retiring a flag by burning it is legal.
burning a flag out of spite is not.

I highly doubt that this is correct. Desecrating a flag is completely legal, as long as you're not breaking an ancillary crime.

[anyaka21]

The joblessnes rate of blacks is lower then it was in the 70's and even the 80's. What does increased militarization of police have to do with enforcing laws? I see "militarized" police everyday, yet I dont feel compelled to break a law. Please tell me which laws compel someone to become a criminal. It has nothing to do with "black bootstraps" it has everything to do with not breaking laws. I know upstanding people who survive among the gangs and other criminals in the inner city. They try their hardest to keep their children from harm and the corrupting influences of unsupervised kids who rule the streets.



What?! Are we talking about places like Baltimore, Detroit etc.. which are run by blacks? They are oppressing other blacks? Who is holding back businesses from opening doors in inner cities? Whites, Poverty, Tax Rates or Crime Rates? Inner cities are rife with criminal activity, joblessness, drug abuse if the majority of the population who lives there accepts it. I can go to poor, heavily Pakistani neighborhoods and not see the level of crime and drug use as I see in black neighborhoods. There is nothing inherent to inner cities that forces someone to commit a crime. I was never forced to rob a store for a soda or pack of cigarettes. I never felt forced to steal the bike of a neighbor. I never felt compelled to use drugs. These are all excuses for the failure of morals due to lack of a strong family unit especially in the black family.

another interesting stat - 75% of black children are born to single family homes. Further, divorce rates are also higher.

Lots of people try and dismiss this, and while it might not be the sole issue, it's defimitely a piece of the puzzle.

[Traveler Voltin]

so there are racial issue. okay.
what are you going to do them to make them better?
protesting only goes so far.

[Docturphil]

Edit: I'm using racism as a synonym for Kaepernick's comment about "oppression against black people and people of color."

Here's my thought:

In America, racism still exists. It's an unfortunate fact. But is it because of America? Or is it because of certain people in America?

I personally feel that the laws that exist here are pretty good for eliminating/discouraging racism, and that's really all we can do without serious violations of personal liberties. All we can do is discourage racism with the laws that we have. That's it. The rest is up to each and every individual. Racism must ultimately be eliminated on an individual level if it's ever really going to go away.

So the way I see it, he's disrespecting our entire country because of how some individuals act. That's shitty. It's not America that is racist. It is racist individuals within America.

Plus I've always hated Kaepernick anyways. He just seems like an arrogant ass hole. Although I suppose most quarterbacks probably are.

[anyaka21]

Racial bias=/=oppression

Too bad he didn't argue about racial bias. I might have believed he wasn't an overpaid jester looking to draw attention to himself if he didn't repeat the garbage about oppression .

I have to agree with this.

His protest is specifically not about oppression, but about the police and the perceived notion of police brutality and racism in police departments.


And while I'm not going to suggest that brutality and racism do not exist, it's most definitely a lot less than is perceived to be and as such the reason for this protest seens misplaced.

[Kathandira]

so there are racial issue. okay.
what are you going to do them to make them better?
protesting only goes so far.

He stated that the first 1mil of his salary will be going to charities aimed at helping people of color.

[Traveler Voltin]

He stated that the first 1mil of his salary will be going to charities aimed at helping people of color.

thats nice and all. not what i was getting at.
protesting can fix some issues like wages.
but issues like relations with Police take more than protests. it takes all sides working together to improve relations. (both sides must also be willing)
are the minorities going to help deal with the gang issues?

[Kathandira]

thats nice and all. not what i was getting at.
protesting can fix some issues like wages.
but issues like relations with Police take more than protests. it takes all sides working together to improve relations. (both sides must also be willing)
are the minorities going to help deal with the gang issues?

Ah, I agree with you completely. Throwing money at an issue doesn't help anything. As you said, it takes full communities standing up and taking action.

[Traveler Voltin]

Ah, I agree with you completely. Throwing money at an issue doesn't help anything. As you said, it takes full communities standing up and taking action.

from what i see, they want an instant now solution that is suppose to magically fix everything.
doesnt work like that. what they want will take awhile to fix.

[Atrea]

So the way I see it, he's disrespecting our entire country because of how some individuals act.

I don't see anything inherently disrespectful about refusing to stand for a national anthem. It's just a song.
Nationalism is idiotic, and if he chooses not to participate in it, that's his prerogative.

I have never understood patriotism. Being prideful of a place just because you were born there seems both egotistical and stupid to me. It's not like you chose to be born a US citizen, or a Canadian citizen, or a Chinese citizen -- RNG chose it for you. I mean, how full of yourself do you have to be to think that just because you're from a place, that it's the best in the world?

[Kathandira]

from what i see, they want an instant now solution that is suppose to magically fix everything.
doesnt work like that. what they want will take awhile to fix.

Also agreed. Change takes time. Sometimes, it takes a few generations.

[anyaka21]

from what i see, they want an instant now solution that is suppose to magically fix everything.
doesnt work like that. what they want will take awhile to fix.

I would also be curious to see where the money is going. Where that mil and the jersey sales go. That will go a long ways to showing what exactly he's trying to accomplish.

[Kraenen]

another interesting stat - 75% of black children are born to single family homes. Further, divorce rates are also higher.

Lots of people try and dismiss this, and while it might not be the sole issue, it's defimitely a piece of the puzzle.

It's actually the biggest piece of the puzzle. Your stat is the highest predictive variable for most of the most important problems facing black people, beyond education, poverty, ethnicity, gender.

[Annoying]

Can't find any source backing up your claim. Here is what I found instead:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_d...#United_States

"The United States Supreme Court in Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397 (1989), and reaffirmed in U.S. v. Eichman, 496 U.S. 310 (1990), has ruled that due to the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, it is unconstitutional for a government (whether federal, state, or municipality) to prohibit the desecration of a flag, due to its status as "symbolic speech." However, content-neutral restrictions may still be imposed to regulate the time, place, and manner of such expression. And if the flag that was burned was someone else's property (as it was in the Johnson case, as Johnson had stolen the flag from a Texas bank's flagpole), they could be charged with petty larceny (a flag usually sells at retail for less than USD 20), or with destruction of private property, or possibly both."

I was about to bring up Texas v. Johnson. Good find on Eichman. Yeah, it's not illegal at all, even if there's a law claiming it to be. The law, being unconstitutional, might as well not exist and has no power to make something illegal.

[Argarock]

Yup! Makes no sense. Nor does it make sense to pledge allegiance to the flag in school. But we do what we are told like good little boys and girls.

Eh, it's called indoctrination, a lot of countries does it.
It's a really efficient way of getting people to accept the status quo