Outlaw: Testing between Ghostly Strike and Quick Draw

[Tyrarolls]

Since your abilities will hit 10% harder, then yes the Blade Flurry damage will be boosted as well. But to put the damage in perspective, if you had a 1,000,000 DMG Run Through, that would only add an extra 35k to each Blade Flurry hit.

i wasn't the best in math but im pretty sure 35% of 1,000,000 is 350,000 - not 35,000

[Riverr]

Since your abilities will hit 10% harder, then yes the Blade Flurry damage will be boosted as well. But to put the damage in perspective, if you had a 1,000,000 DMG Run Through, that would only add an extra 35k to each Blade Flurry hit.

i wasn't the best in math but im pretty sure 35% of 1,000,000 is 350,000 - not 35,000

1. He said *add an extra 35k*, which is correct as its adding 10% of that 350k.
2. However, isn't Ghostly Strike a debuff on the target, thus the off targets from BF wouldn't be affected - as opposed to a buff on you?

[Notter]

1. He said *add an extra 35k*, which is correct as its adding 10% of that 350k.
2. However, isn't Ghostly Strike a debuff on the target, thus the off targets from BF wouldn't be affected - as opposed to a buff on you?

From what i was told, (and i didn't check)
it's true GS is a debuff on the target, but the Blade flurry cleave damage, is 35% of the damage you do on your target.
so that's the damage *after* it was increased by GS debuff.

[Deleted]

Feeling better results with Quick Draw myself, makes rolling the bones also easier or faster rather, so when you need to get that better roll it feels kinda faster...

[Kazzai]

Y'all are gooses. You roll broadsides and what are you gonna do. 0cp > build to 6 > RT > 1cp through ruthlessness > SS and either 2 things happen
1. You get 5cp from double SS and you're all g to RT again
2. You get 3cp and you're stuck to either SS and potentially overcap CP, use a pistol shot from opportunity and potentially overcap energy, or GS and continue to do your rotation

[Zabatakis]

As far as sims go you should consider those are perfect scenario situations. If you are not great with your GS, either mistiming the refresh or letting it fall off then one of the other talents will likely yield better dps for YOU. Also some things depend on stat weights so you have to sim your stats, artifact traits, and if you have legendary. I don't know but I think if you went for blunderbuss after greed instead of fortune strikes or have the legendary cuffs Quick Draw may be better for you anyway.

[Troljinn]

Just wanna chime in, i am currently 845 ilvl and done all mythics last week and this week, add in world bosses, hcs last week and the daily hc i have probably done 150 boss kills or more, now on paper GS is better and on attemps where i roll 2+ consistently its much higher dps overall, however, what QD brings to the table is the ability to reroll more often on those times when RtB gives you a 1 buff roll multiple times in a row, which lets face it happens very often (or i am just very unlucky) out of those 150 kills maybe only 5% of them have have 2+ buffs up the whole time, some with what i consider to be normal rerolls maybe 2-3 and the rest have these streaks of 5-6 in a row with 1 buff, and that happens quite frequently, so although my peak dps may be lower in a sim or on one of these rare attemps where everything goes my way, in general i feel QD offers much more consistent dps albeit slightly lower than max

[PessimiStick]

Tried Quick Draw and it completely made my rotation tilt. Extremely slow as free pistol shot almost always coincided with 4 CP

That's perfect...

4 + 2 = 6

You should be glad about your RNG.

[Phanuel]

He must not be using Stratagem for some reason.

[fcc]

He must not be using Stratagem for some reason.

I'm not using stratagem, vigor is simming significantly higher for my gear

[Sephiroso]

I'm not using stratagem, vigor is simming significantly higher for my gear

Maybe cause you have next to no haste?

[fcc]

Maybe cause you have next to no haste?

Yup, shitty haste, but mastery is simming higher for me too, 39.36% crit, 12.25% haste, 41.50% mastery atm.

[Deleted]

i laugh so hard when i remember a few months ago the entirety of rogues being flipped out over less abilities and zero skillcap and then i see this

Yeah, start try out things on yourself! Sims are NOT realistic, we cant even sure ir the programer of this simulations know what hes doing.
Ive tryed some sins vs outlaw sessions on training dummys (10+ minutes) most of the time sin won, only some realy lucky rtb rolls won the race for outlaw, which is a real rare case.

[wombats23]

Yeah, start try out things on yourself! Sims are NOT realistic, we cant even sure ir the programer of this simulations know what hes doing.
Ive tryed some sins vs outlaw sessions on training dummys (10+ minutes) most of the time sin won, only some realy lucky rtb rolls won the race for outlaw, which is a real rare case.

how are we to know your tests are fair? are the weapons for both of your specs the exact same item level? how much artifact power have you spent on each weapon? do you have gear that favors one spec over the other? are you playing both specs to the exact same skill level? how many times did you do these sessions for each spec?

sims are there to control all outside variables.

[fcc]

Wonder what a good haste amount is for outlaw

[Sephiroso]

Not using strategem because no haste and not pushing outlaw past 14 atm Im specced sub for drops etc. When comparing people must take into account that there are also other factors in the comparison, less gear, speccing for other main spec etc. Quick Draw deeped my dps over 50% while I was pretty much #1 in every fight with GS in mythic dungeons and I don't intend to raid so for me at least and my circumstances GS works.

So: Unless you re gearing for outlaw and preparing to raid as outlaw and you re exclusively building the outlaw artifact, I think GS > QD.

One thing you might not be taking into account is the natural damage range for outlaw. You try a few 5 mins with GS get shit rolls., then you try a few 5mins with Quick Draw and get good rolls then you conclude Quick Draw is better when in reality its just because of your rolls., You need a much larger sample size to really even have a chance at eliminating the rolls from skewing your numbers when comparing gear or talents in outlaw

[Helkor]

Calculating my own character with SimC I found the following:

Used character:
Hailkor (EU Ravencrest)
iLvL: 845
Talents: ?311222 ("?" being the talent we're switching around)

Length: 240-360 sec
Fight style: Patchwerk (single target)

results:
Ghostly Strike: 288300 DPS
Swordmaster: 278426 DPS
Quick Draw: 277833 DPS

As far as scale factors go, nothing much changes. Keep in mind this may differ for your character.

Stat weights:
Ghostly Strike: Agi(10.99) > Vers(6.97) > Mastery(5.96) ~= Crit(5.82) ~= Haste(5.80)
Swordmaster: Agi(10.74) > Vers(6.46) > Crit(5.82) ~= Mastery(5.72) > Haste(5.19)
Quick Draw: Agi(10.68) > Vers(6.29) ~= Crit(5.85) ~= Mastery(5.48) > Haste(4.86)

As you can see, it changes a bit, but it's nothing major, Versatility is still slightly ahead of the other stats. It just seems like Ghostly Strike makes us utilize our stats better than the other 2 talents. I would however still recommend a fair bit of Haste, just because it's more fun to play with, and it offers a more versatile rotation if you ask me.

[warstry]

1. He said *add an extra 35k*, which is correct as its adding 10% of that 350k.
2. However, isn't Ghostly Strike a debuff on the target, thus the off targets from BF wouldn't be affected - as opposed to a buff on you?

The damage boost to the primary target with GS does copy onto surrounding targets. This is the very same reason that combat was insanely OP in MoP for the Garalon fight via broken leg damage being copied directly to Garalon.