I just got kicked from a grp , shadow is shit

[l33t]

Why should random pug who doesn't know you have to put up with clearing a dungeon slower/not at all because of poor class performance? If a tank was broken and inexplicably took 15% more damage than any other tank in 5mans I wouldn't want to heal that player either. Not this fault, but he isn't my friend and I don't care.

I completely agree. Taking a burden of carrying a weak spec through content, is, well, carrying

[Charge me Doctor]

You arent listening, it's a pain in the ass to kill 10 minor mobs in the world for us, and no other classes (locks and ele, maybe). It takes us a lot longer to kill those, we have to apply VT+SWP on all of them to kill, because SWP and mindsear just isnt enough, and it sucks.
I dont see anyone complaining about our multidot damage? Do you? No, then why even bring it up.

No, i am listening, i'm just sincerely sad that there are no opportunity for SP to shine. Blizzard apparently gave up on encounters with 2-3 health-heavy targets. That's the part i enjoy the most on my SP - multidot and keep all dots rolling. But realistically i can maintain them by rotation voidbolts only on 3 targets, and often they die way sooner than it becomes relevant.

[Woop Woop]

No, i am listening, i'm just sincerely sad that there are no opportunity for SP to shine. Blizzard apparently gave up on encounters with 2-3 health-heavy targets. That's the part i enjoy the most on my SP - multidot and keep all dots rolling. But realistically i can maintain them by rotation voidbolts only on 3 targets, and often they die way sooner than it becomes relevant.

There is 1 aspect of the game where we shine, raids with StM, so we've got that going for us.
Other aspects, not so great:
- PvP struggling with melees on us, more than ever actually. If one dk/warrior/ww/dh/enhance so much as looks at you, chances are you will die very soon.
- Mythic/mythic+ we lack aoe
- World quest, lack aoe and ways to kill adds quickly. I was in Azsuna with 5 baby murlocks attacking me, it wasn't pretty, felt like i used 2 minutes to kill them.
At least with Sol and high ilvl it's not hard to kill stuff, it just takes time.

[Rhoe]

That's fair. I am currently playing affliction lock and have similar issues on trash unless I spec completely into AOE. But even then Agony's ramp up is just miserable.

Seen my guildie doing 2M dps on trash with affliction just spamming SoC with some specific trait on the affli artifact.

On topic: A lot of the shadow priests I see in dungeons are doing absolutely terrible trash dps. I really think Blizzard should buff their aoe a bit. Maybe change a talent that wouldn't be viable in raids but good in dungeons? It makes no sense to let a class with only one dps spec have that spec suck at doing so much content, even if it's partly due to difficulty. Especially while classes like hunter can just press shiny buttons and top meters while having no clue.

[Woop Woop]

I tried to reroll when i had 805-810 ilvl because it felt so terrible, but after a few levels i realized i didnt want to do all the suramar quests and class hall stuff again. Figured i would just wait it out and hope for better times :P

[Vampiregenesis]

a bit better now , im doing 120K+ single target with 810ilvl and around 100k at trash but i had shadowcrash and i misuse it probably , i can do more single target.

[Deleted]

Doesn't use VF on trash and complains about dps....

VF is our key to AOE trash dps, the initial entrance into it causes your dots to explode and if you've made it to the mass hysteria talent the long you're in void form with dots rolling the more aoe dps you're doing.

it is frustrating but you really need to read into your class about how to play then learn the fights and time everything right, would be good if you could log your dungeons and people can point out where you're going wrong from that. I don't like the fact that we spend so much effort for such little dps when i see a DH run in and do 500k+ dps with a couple of buttons when we're struggling to get 200k with multi dotting and using cd's.

[Raelbo]

In my opinion, it's obvious that if a class performs so bad in dungeons (which I believe is the main thing that casual PvE players run) that you risk getting kicked even while DOING THE BEST YOU CAN, something needs to be changed.

Yes, it's called player attitude. Some classes will always be stronger than others, and there must always be a weakest spec. The problem here is when players choose to kick people for poor performance in content where it actually doesn't matter.

[GT4]

Yes, it's called player attitude. Some classes will always be stronger than others, and there must always be a weakest spec. The problem here is when players choose to kick people for poor performance in content where it actually doesn't matter.

While it's not reasonable for players to kick other players in trivial content, it's not reasonable for classes to have such huge differences in dungeon performance either.

There will always be a weakest spec but that spec doesn't have to be behind by factor 10 as is currently the case for SP burst AoE.

[l33t]

Yes, it's called player attitude. Some classes will always be stronger than others, and there must always be a weakest spec. The problem here is when players choose to kick people for poor performance in content where it actually doesn't matter.

Weaker is subjective. A margin of 10%, even 20% between strongest and weakest spec is acceptable. A margin of 300%+ is not. Player attitude is not to blame when your weaker spec objectively is a burden to a group.

See, the problem is not only in class balance; the dungeons themselves are designed in a way which leaves absolutely zero scenarios where dot-classes can shine compared to melee assrippers. Not only your typical ideal packs of 3 mobs with high hit points are basically nonexistent, but also all bosses have overabundance of anti-ranged mechanics while having little to no anti-melee mechanics. All this stuff conbined grants such a disastrous results for shadow priests. Also, this stuff has nothing to do with players attitude as well. In other words, you can't really blame people for not wanting to boost weaklings for free, like it or not, but lots of players feel like that and they have all the rights to do so.

[Raelbo]

Weaker is subjective. A margin of 10%, even 20% between strongest and weakest spec is acceptable. A margin of 300%+ is not. Player attitude is not to blame when your weaker spec objectively is a burden to a group.

Agreed. I haven't personally noticed any issues with priests putting out 25% of the average group damage, but if this was the case, then I'd agree it's an issue which needs to be fixed.

In other words, you can't really blame people for not wanting to boost weaklings for free, like it or not, but lots of players feel like that and they have all the rights to do so.

I do blame people for not wanting to boost weaklings for free when it's LFG/LFR level content provided that the weakling is actually participating and that the group is succeeding. I have zero patience for players who are semi-afk. And if the group is wiping due to weak players then they shouldn't be in the content.

Just because a lot of players feel that they are entitled to kick people due to being weaker doesn't make it right. Just because they have the ability to do so doesn't make it right. Of course it is their right to do so (as in they are permitted to do so), but they should realise that enforcing that right isn't something that they should do.

It's like the Dude in the Big Lebowski said: "You're not wrong Walter. You're just an asshole." (referring of course to those who just kick people frivolously)

[Deleted]

SP is the only class with NO AOE spell

mind sear needs at least a 200% damage buff, or a spread dot mecanism to even find its place in our spell bars....
its ridiculous

great expansion so far, but class balance beetween melee/tanks on one hand and casters on the other hand has never been THAT shitty

[Sangomah]

I got to a certain stat point now (833) where I do not feel useless anymore.

For dungeons it seems that crit outweighs haste pretty significantly, even though I can't back that up with math in any way. (With AS ofc)

[Vargur]

I haven't played shadow since last year, but from the few comments I've read, it's the same old question of damage ramp-up time, while not having the burst capabilities of other classes, AOE or single target.
Thus making those who care about trash mobs DPS think that YOU suck and not your CLASS.
Am I wrong?

[PeopleReady]

I haven't played shadow since last year, but from the few comments I've read, it's the same old question of damage ramp-up time, while not having the burst capabilities of other classes, AOE or single target.
Thus making those who cares about trash mobs DPS that YOU suck and not your CLASS.
Am I wrong?

Its not intellectually dishonest to see someone doing low DPS, and replace them strictly because of that class' underperformance. People on here seem to jump on "BUT ITS LFR AND NORMALS" while ignoring that this is done (by me anyway) strictly in mythics. If we're wiping on a boss because adds can't die because shadow is underpowered...sorry bro. You're not my guildy, not my friend, and I'm getting my loot.

[Woop Woop]

I haven't played shadow since last year, but from the few comments I've read, it's the same old question of damage ramp-up time, while not having the burst capabilities of other classes, AOE or single target.
Thus making those who cares about trash mobs DPS that YOU suck and not your CLASS.
Am I wrong?

You are right. A tank did higher dps than me on a boss in a mythic today, the group noticed it and i was sure they were going to kick me, glad they didnt. Granted there spawned many adds that i couldnt deal with (lol) that he could cleave, but that was just once. Its really frustrating to be unable to kill adds like that quickly, especially where its a requirement like the soul boss in blackrook hold.

[Rakannishu]

We give up way too much outside of a raid environment just so we can be best in a raid environment. That's the argument. And to magnify this problem, there is no raid environment yet.

[Isotope]

You guys think it's bad. Just wait till you start trying to pug mythics and aren't getting in even at a 840+ ilvl.

[Woop Woop]

You guys think it's bad. Just wait till you start trying to pug mythics and aren't getting in even at a 840+ ilvl.

A lot of people are deliberately choosing other classes over us when we sign up for mythics. I have also been declined a couple times with 843 ilvl, it sucks...

[Replica]

Seriously , they kicked me saying that i was afk even though i made the most effort out of them all , i multidot again and again, i guess my dps was too low , it was below of tank's one but i tried my best... i mean wtf should i do anyway? open voidform and all my cds on trash packs? did they suddenly become important? i kept my cds and void for bosses , is that wrong?

I hate the whole voidform mechanic , ITS SHIT , your dps sucks out of it , questing and grinding sucks because of it since they have to balance your base form because you have voidform too... , I HATE MULTIDOTING , the whole playstyle of priest is not neccesarily hard but is fucking boring , I HATE BEING IN SHADOWFORM ALLTHETIME and i cant see my transmog.......

>fotm kid rolls COP spam in legion, is a shadow mage
>real shadow gets introduced again
>hates "new" class
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