RIP Legion Enhancement Shaman PvP - Don't say I didn't tell you so...

[melzas]

Agreed on the frost shock bit, with spirit walk no longer granting immunity to movement impairing effects, enhance feels much easier to kite than ever. Once someone gets out of your frostbrands range its really hard to catch up. Hard to comment on other things yet, havent played enhance enough in pvp this season and rated pvp isnt out yet, but it doesnt look too good.

On the other hand, counterstrike totem is insanely strong in random bgs, on the edge of being OP, though it will never be good in any ranked games.

[Deleted]

Agreed on pretty much all things. I'll add one of my own: Buff juggling. It should be optional, imo.

A few spontaneous suggestions that would help (imo):

-Grounding Totem returns

-Purge maybe have it have remove all dispellable stuff, but have a cooldown (30s?)

-Totems in general...spontaneous ones that dont hold us back would be nice.
Old tremor (usable while silenced) was nice
CPT baseline
Reintroducing Sentry Totem. Use once to place it, another use will have it switch places with shaman
A totem for a area effect dmg reduce (Old Windwall, but also working on enemy spells, kinda like smoke bomb maybe)

-SR returns instead of AS, duh

-Lava Lash could (baseline) reduce the cd of the next SS. Furthermore it would be cool to have either of the two hailstorm "alternatives" be replaced with a talent that supports lava lash, in addition to hot hands.
Effect: Your Flametongue's effect is now provided by your Lava Lash. ( If that doesn't make it competitive already, add a dmg modifier, ms cost reduction or some such)
This would give us the opportunity to make more use of LL, while dropping buff management completely, if we so desire.

-Concerning SS's long cd; my above suggestion for LL baseline would solve that, and add more control to our rotations' rng.

-I dont mind Ascendence as a talent, but I mind a boring maintenance buff (providing best numbers no less -.-) and low performing Earth Spike as alternatives.
For Ascendence; it should provide us with 50 or so MS upon activation, as we'll obviously want to Stormstrike right away. In a start-of-the-fight-scenario, in world pvp, arena etc, we will ofttimes want to put on pressure as fast as possible, so being able to SS upon the activation of Asc will be a nice start.
It should also provide an effect that shortens SS cd while it runs, or severely increase Stormbringer proc chance while it lasts (double maybe?)

Lightning Shield could replace Landslide as a dmg cd (1-2min). Essentially, during it's duration you'll do decent amounts of damage to anyone around you. The damage is even higher if the targets hit you. This would serve as a nice aoe cd as opposed to Asc as single target one. It would also be a nice pvp defensive.

Earthen spike would be the low cd high damage skill. it is currently far to weak though. Comparable to hunters' piercing shot, I'd say, OR place the emphasis on the buff effect, and increase it to 50% extra pyhsical damage or more to make those stormbringer procs count.

-Wolves losing their healing is in itself not bad, I think. What's bad is that we lost basically everything that sustained our lives, and got nothing back. Wolves started out as a ability cluster. To much stuff crammed into one skill. Using a sv ability for damage feels like bad design. Would be cool to have something like AG back though.

- FB is apain in the ass (as is FT, imo). Enh is so clunky because of these badly design imbues.
Enh is about empowering themselves and their allies, that is class fantasy, yes.
But it's not an enh thing to juggle buffs. We never maintained stuff.

FT should not require a target, and be purely a selfbuff.
FB should have the range that FrS had, and via a honor talent should offer back that snare.

Also: That leap should be baseline.

[Professor Expert]

Offensive Cooldowns:
Wolves
Doom Hammer
Bloodlust
Ascendance
Honor Totem

Wolves are hardly a big damage source. They're a few sec of free maelstrom and that's about it...their duration should not have been cut in half, and they no longer heal for the damage dealt - an unnecessary nerf.

Doomhammer gives you a few windfury hits at 200% damage for 8 sec...with a 2.6 sec swing per weapon, that works out to about 6 hits if you're on target. WF hits for about 20K normally, so 200% means 40K...a whopping 240K damage over 8 sec, when you have warriors demon hunters spamming that kind of damage with standard attacks...

Heroism, because I don't roll horde, is a long CD with an additional debuff that keeps you from benefiting more than once every 10 min. You cannot use it in ranked pvp, and it's only worth mentioning if you choose the honor talent which makes it affect only you and one friendly target.

Ascendance is utterly worthless. Anyone who takes this over landslide is a fool, plain and simple. Taking this REQUIRES you to take tempest, and REQUIRES that you only use it when stormbringer procs and you have enough maelstrom to do at least 3 consecutive SS. No thanks.

Counterstrike totem is actually very good, but it's presence does not make up for all the very bad things that blizzard has done to enhancement.

Ok, yeah we lack defensive cooldowns but Astral Shift also heals for 30% hp, wolves allow for easy pillar hugging while constantly healing us and our heals are pretty damn strong with ~450k crits.

Once again, no. Astral shift is garbage. It's a boring ability that pales in comparison to glyphed shamanistic rage - which was a 1 min CD, usable while stunned and removes all magic debuffs included mage/paladin stuns. The 30% HoT does not make up for this.

And yes, our healing is good except for the fact that casting insta-heals uses both mana and maelstrom...very idiotic. The act of a heal consuming maelstrom to become "instant" should mean that it only consumes maelstrom. When casted, it can consume mana...although the entire premise of "builder spender" is dumb and boring; enhancement was far better before than it is now.

Oh, and isn't it funny how they left instant, long-duration CCs in the game but removed a ton of counters to said CCs? Why is that? Does that make things more "fun"?

Frostbrand is a 50% slow on hit not 30% making it as easy as a rogue to keep on targets and I do consistantly do damage with my shaman, you claim I act like I don't even play the class but 80% of the information you've given is wrong.... Do you even play it or are u just ranting for the sake of ranting?

Really? 80%? Says the guy who still uses ascendance...

Frostbrand may as well be a 0% slow, because it requires both maelstrom to cast and you have to be within 10 yds of the target to generate at least some maelstrom, has a short duration that requires constant upkeep for something that used to be a passive buff. It's terrible and it's not a valid replacement for frost shock w/frozen power.

We used to have unleash elements and they called that redundant, so what did they do? They removed UE and made flametongue/frostbrand separate buttons that do minimal damage yet need to be maintained, wasting GCDs...oh and they're dispellable.

Why the F would FT/FB not be weapon buffs that do not require constant casting? It's not more "fun" to have to press a button every 10 sec to maintain damage/utility.

Most of the changes to enhancement were dumb, poorly thought out and obviously intended to make it more of a cookie-cutter melee like DKs, Warriors and rogues.

[Deleted]

While I mostly agreed on your first post, I'ld like to throw in a couple things about that last one where I dont agree:
-2.6s attack speed during doomwinds is without ANY bonuses added. Berserking (troll), Bloodlust (honor talent or not), a trinket, windsong talent (may pull ahead in pvp situations where you need pressure), flat haste honor talent, ancestral swiftness (dunno if Hailstorm is better because of uptime) and last but not least; Haste rating.
If you line up stuff, getting that 2.6 down to 1 doesn't seem that impossible

-As you said, the honor talent makes it usable in ranked pvp. It's fully functional in 2v2, and in a 3v3 team (2 dps 1 heal) it would still benefit the full burst. 5v5 is gone afaik, so that leaves RBG only. The honor talent makes it really nicely stackable with DW, so isn't that pretty good?

-Counterstrike is "good" in the sense it is terribly OP against noobs (which will no doubt cause it to be nerfed hard in the future) and because it is a 5hp totem, terribly useless in any pvp scenario the enemy is quick in their reactions and 1shots it. May still have it's use while the enemy is popping everything and going on a few seconds of tunnel, but yeah. The better the enemy, the worse the totem.


I agree on the the mana/MS sentiment on heals. Heals are decently strong, but they are so most desperately needed, we mostly heal, are oom after a few seconds, and then die, because we have no mitigation to back us up. We didn't really do any damage either, because all Maelstrom we built was spent on heals, too.
The current heal system is good for the most part, maybe split healing up into two spells, one casted and for mana, one instant and for maelstrom?
It would give us some more control. It would add one more spell to the bar, but we've got that count reduced severely, so no harm there, I think.

With a 1m cd AG or so, we could use counterstrike totem for insane selfhealing, just an example. We'd get it during times where enemies go for the kill too, se perfect synergy.

-Wait; FT/FB are dispellable? Really? If that's true, then that's a serious concern. Weapon imbues were never dispellable!
Edit: Just checked wow-head: It said both spells had no avaiable dispel type. You sure?

[Deleted]

Astral Shift is terrible. The 30% heal added to it doesn't make it any better. We're effectively a melee class with worse damage mitigation and survivability than many ranged classes. Just to elaborate on this, 30% of 1.5 million HP would be 450k HP. It's neglibel. Worse it's over 15 seconds rather than instant. Which means it's about 30k hps. With attacks hitting well over 200-300 that's completely and utterly useless.

Astral Shift itself isn't that particularly great. 40% sounds more than Shamanistic Rage but you had a far longer up time on shamanistic rage, could use it when stunned or silence and it was usually coupled with the passive 5% from lightning shield. So we went from 35% to 40% but had to give up everything making it decent. It's a nerf that wasn't warranted.

Blizzard seems to assume that our "heals" will make up for this. There's just a tiny problem with this. If you heal, you aren't doing damage. Even spamming healing surge on yourself you usually can barely stave off the damage you're taking especially against other melees rather than heal up while your own damage is dropping through the floor. Several melee class can kill an enhancement shaman within a single or two chained stuns no biggie. Given silence/stun mechanics and self heal we're not being treated as a melee but more similar to a caster. We also lost other survivability when we were squishy all along. This is a huge problem and will only get worse over time.



Damage itself seems overall fine. The problem is ramp up time. Most melees can burst immediatly. Enhancer has to wait for maelstrom aswell as proccs. Given how extremly bursty the game is, this is a bad thing. Couple it with being squishy and it puts enhancer PvP wise in a rather awkward position. Not very well thought through.



My personally biggest gripe is mobility and gap closers aswell as CC. We pretty much have none. If Train A leaves the Station at 1 o'clock driving at 100 mph and Train B leaves the same station at 2 o'clock driving at 100 mph then Train B is never going to catch up with Train A. That is what ghostwolf ammounts to. Any class that can slow you you will pretty much never get away from and any class that can ranged slow you you will pretty much never be able to catch up on. A decent Dk could in all likelihood kite you to oblivion and back.

Worse getting close to them doesn't actually mean your problem is solved. Frostbrand is TERRIBLE. Most melees have slows with a 15 second duration. Thus if their target disconnects they can usually manage to catch up. Frostbrand last for 3 (closer to 2). Which means that if a target manages to get away from you it'll fall off almost instantly. That is despite it being more expensive in terms of resources than for example harmstring and being melee only unlike pistol shot. It's not a good mechanic and seems to exist solely for the sake of putting us apart but shafting us double.

Which leads me to Feral Lunge. It has the mechanic of the age old charge. Back when jumping around like mad as caster so a warrior would stand 5 metres next to you rather than atop of you was a thing. It has a longer CD than charge (which has two uses), lacks the fix they came up with for both charge and the druid gap closer being rooting/dazing them respectively instead dealing neglibel damage. They once again tried to put the shaman ability apart from the warrior and druid one but by doing so ended up forcing it in the same bad situation both of those used to be in before they fixed them. I.e you use them and the enemy still is away/you outright miss them.

The removal of frostshock and it's talented root effect was a huge blow to a shaman's ability to actually be able to close the gap with their enemies. It was a mistake and one we'll suffer from. Alongside the other changes it's disastrous for our mobility all around.


Which leads to CC. We have frog. Nothing changed there. Frog is decent in some situations but rather useless in others. Not much to talk about. Our only other CC is still capacitor totem. Them baking in that it's 3 seconds only is nice. Otherwise it's as terrible as ever. Good for PvE though. But in PvP it's pretty much trash especially because you can't let it charge up next to you before projecting it. A decent player will see and kill it instantly. It's also time delayed.

[Deleted]

you obviously don't know how to play enh shamy...

I'm a total noob in pvp but every 2 minute nothing can stop me...

did you raise your artifact? under assendance ,blood lust (heroism), or orc talent + wolves and astral shift !!!!

You have more malestrom than you can handle,

you hit so hard so rapidly...

400k heal while under 30 to 40% damage reduction is insane plus the passive heal... then the wolf with aoe....

and you don't have to be on cac... and your attack bypass armor...

seriously ? he was right to ask if you realy play enh shamy...

or he was polite and did not want to say you did not play it well...

and I'm not even speack about world pvp... it's even more op...

I' m starting to love pvp again... and I 'm a noob...

Practice instead of just reading tooltips... maybe use a macro... i don't know how you do to not be good with a class this OP,

this class may have one of the strongest burst when using all cd, it's totally insane...

and last if in pvp you do not take accendance.... it's say it all.

right there we know your not realy serious...

[Deleted]

I can't figure out whether Sigiel is baiting or genuine.

[Professor Expert]

Deleth drives the nail through the board in one palm strike with this:

Astral Shift is terrible. The 30% heal added to it doesn't make it any better. We're effectively a melee class with worse damage mitigation and survivability than many ranged classes. Just to elaborate on this, 30% of 1.5 million HP would be 450k HP. It's neglibel. Worse it's over 15 seconds rather than instant. Which means it's about 30k hps. With attacks hitting well over 200-300 that's completely and utterly useless.

Astral Shift itself isn't that particularly great. 40% sounds more than Shamanistic Rage but you had a far longer up time on shamanistic rage, could use it when stunned or silence and it was usually coupled with the passive 5% from lightning shield. So we went from 35% to 40% but had to give up everything making it decent. It's a nerf that wasn't warranted.

Blizzard seems to assume that our "heals" will make up for this. There's just a tiny problem with this. If you heal, you aren't doing damage. Even spamming healing surge on yourself you usually can barely stave off the damage you're taking especially against other melees rather than heal up while your own damage is dropping through the floor. Several melee class can kill an enhancement shaman within a single or two chained stuns no biggie. Given silence/stun mechanics and self heal we're not being treated as a melee but more similar to a caster. We also lost other survivability when we were squishy all along. This is a huge problem and will only get worse over time.

Damage itself seems overall fine. The problem is ramp up time. Most melees can burst immediatly. Enhancer has to wait for maelstrom aswell as proccs. Given how extremly bursty the game is, this is a bad thing. Couple it with being squishy and it puts enhancer PvP wise in a rather awkward position. Not very well thought through.

My personally biggest gripe is mobility and gap closers aswell as CC. We pretty much have none. If Train A leaves the Station at 1 o'clock driving at 100 mph and Train B leaves the same station at 2 o'clock driving at 100 mph then Train B is never going to catch up with Train A. That is what ghostwolf ammounts to. Any class that can slow you you will pretty much never get away from and any class that can ranged slow you you will pretty much never be able to catch up on. A decent Dk could in all likelihood kite you to oblivion and back.

Worse getting close to them doesn't actually mean your problem is solved. Frostbrand is TERRIBLE. Most melees have slows with a 15 second duration. Thus if their target disconnects they can usually manage to catch up. Frostbrand last for 3 (closer to 2). Which means that if a target manages to get away from you it'll fall off almost instantly. That is despite it being more expensive in terms of resources than for example harmstring and being melee only unlike pistol shot. It's not a good mechanic and seems to exist solely for the sake of putting us apart but shafting us double.

Which leads me to Feral Lunge. It has the mechanic of the age old charge. Back when jumping around like mad as caster so a warrior would stand 5 metres next to you rather than atop of you was a thing. It has a longer CD than charge (which has two uses), lacks the fix they came up with for both charge and the druid gap closer being rooting/dazing them respectively instead dealing neglibel damage. They once again tried to put the shaman ability apart from the warrior and druid one but by doing so ended up forcing it in the same bad situation both of those used to be in before they fixed them. I.e you use them and the enemy still is away/you outright miss them.

The removal of frostshock and it's talented root effect was a huge blow to a shaman's ability to actually be able to close the gap with their enemies. It was a mistake and one we'll suffer from. Alongside the other changes it's disastrous for our mobility all around.

Which leads to CC. We have frog. Nothing changed there. Frog is decent in some situations but rather useless in others. Not much to talk about. Our only other CC is still capacitor totem. Them baking in that it's 3 seconds only is nice. Otherwise it's as terrible as ever. Good for PvE though. But in PvP it's pretty much trash especially because you can't let it charge up next to you before projecting it. A decent player will see and kill it instantly. It's also time delayed.

Nothing to add, just wanted to quote it because it's rare that I agree with a post entirely. I get the feeling the has been playing enhancement for a while before Legion.

- - - Updated - - -

While I mostly agreed on your first post, I'ld like to throw in a couple things about that last one where I dont agree:
-2.6s attack speed during doomwinds is without ANY bonuses added. Berserking (troll), Bloodlust (honor talent or not), a trinket, windsong talent (may pull ahead in pvp situations where you need pressure), flat haste honor talent, ancestral swiftness (dunno if Hailstorm is better because of uptime) and last but not least; Haste rating.
If you line up stuff, getting that 2.6 down to 1 doesn't seem that impossible

Sorry but even with DW used each time it's available, windfury still represents a minisule amount of our total damage. If windfury was perma-buffed by 200% (seems like a lot) it would still be 10-15% of total damage at best.

-As you said, the honor talent makes it usable in ranked pvp. It's fully functional in 2v2, and in a 3v3 team (2 dps 1 heal) it would still benefit the full burst. 5v5 is gone afaik, so that leaves RBG only. The honor talent makes it really nicely stackable with DW, so isn't that pretty good?

See above: DW's duration is too short, CD is too long and effect is minimal. Even with 30% haste and 100% hits while DW is up, you're talking 2, maybe 3 more hits for a whopping 80K to 120K damage.

-Counterstrike is "good" in the sense it is terribly OP against noobs (which will no doubt cause it to be nerfed hard in the future) and because it is a 5hp totem, terribly useless in any pvp scenario the enemy is quick in their reactions and 1shots it. May still have it's use while the enemy is popping everything and going on a few seconds of tunnel, but yeah. The better the enemy, the worse the totem.

For something to qualify as OP, it has to be very good AND not counter-able. You being inexperienced at pvp doesn't make an ability whose function you are unaware of OP, it just makes you a player with poor situational awareness. If anything, it needs a buff to make it explode when destroyed, dealing damage equal to all damage received by the shaman in the last 10 sec to all enemies in 20 yds.

I agree on the the mana/MS sentiment on heals. Heals are decently strong, but they are so most desperately needed, we mostly heal, are oom after a few seconds, and then die, because we have no mitigation to back us up. We didn't really do any damage either, because all Maelstrom we built was spent on heals, too.
The current heal system is good for the most part, maybe split healing up into two spells, one casted and for mana, one instant and for maelstrom?
It would give us some more control. It would add one more spell to the bar, but we've got that count reduced severely, so no harm there, I think.

Adding complexity is not a solution. Our problem is that we lost shamanistic rage, and we need that back as it was with the glyph effect baked in. We have no option but to heal, defensively, and that makes us go OOM as well as emptying out our maelstrom bar as you noted. We also need frost shock + frozen power, and it needs to either be "free" to cast or use mana, not maelstrom.

Sham rage + frost shock w/frozen power would fix 70% of the pvp issues. Giving us grounding totem back would bump that back up to 80%. The 20% is going to stay 20% due to the relatively long ramp up and high upkeep requirements for our damage.

With a 1m cd AG or so, we could use counterstrike totem for insane selfhealing, just an example. We'd get it during times where enemies go for the kill too, se perfect synergy.

You can already do that now; pop wolves and drop the CS totem, use the maelstrom from the wolves to heal while letting the CS totem reflect the attackers' dmg back. Problem with AG is that it sucks, not usable when stunned. The 8 sec duration is too short for a 1.5min CD, especially when the 1 min CD with 15 sec duration sham rage was "just right".

-Wait; FT/FB are dispellable? Really? If that's true, then that's a serious concern. Weapon imbues were never dispellable!
Edit: Just checked wow-head: It said both spells had no avaiable dispel type. You sure?

Pretty sure they're considered magic buffs within the game now. They are definitely no longer weapon imbues (i.e. physical buffs not dispellable). Either way, they're a cheap, lazy way to add unnecessary buttons to enhancement's rotation. They were better as weapon imbues and that's how they should be now.

[Schmilblick]

I just abandoned my enhancement after realizing that it will be another crappy expack for PvP with it.

[Professor Expert]

you obviously don't know how to play enh shamy...

I'm a total noob in pvp but every 2 minute nothing can stop me...

Here we go...the noob assessment...

did you raise your artifact? under assendance ,blood lust (heroism), or orc talent + wolves and astral shift !!!!

You have more malestrom than you can handle,

Pretty sure I already stated multiple times that wolves act as a maelstrom source for a short time on a long CD, provided they aren't feared or AoE CC'd like any competent player would do as soon as a shaman pops them.

you hit so hard so rapidly...

400k heal while under 30 to 40% damage reduction is insane plus the passive heal... then the wolf with aoe....

30% of HP over 15 sec isn't game-changing, and our insta-heals eat up mana and maelstrom so fast that if we use them we're defenseless and unable to attack. Even if you do this with wolves up, you'll still go OOM with a full maelstrom bar.

If you choose the "improved AG" honor talent, you gain 15 sec of immunity to PHYSICAL damage only, but you cannot attack. Basically the same deal as paladin's BoP. A mage, caster or any melee dealing non-physical damage will still roll you.

and you don't have to be on cac... and your attack bypass armor...

seriously ? he was right to ask if you realy play enh shamy...

or he was polite and did not want to say you did not play it well...

and I'm not even speack about world pvp... it's even more op...

I' m starting to love pvp again... and I 'm a noob...

Practice instead of just reading tooltips... maybe use a macro... i don't know how you do to not be good with a class this OP,

this class may have one of the strongest burst when using all cd, it's totally insane...

and last if in pvp you do not take accendance.... it's say it all.

right there we know your not realy serious...

You don't really play enhance, sounds like you were beaten by one. You probably play a lock or mage, and think that because you lost a duel or two to an enhancement shaman that the class is OP.

Serious players aren't going to waste a talent on ascendance knowing that they can only use it then they have more than half of their maelstrom bar full AND a stormbringer proc active. Oh, and let's hope we're playing against an opponent who isn't smart enough to CC the shaman when they do pop ascendance.

Landslide's buff makes ALL of your attacks hit harder, all the time. No extra GCDs to worry about. It's a no-brainer.

[Deleted]

Sorry but even with DW used each time it's available, windfury still represents a minisule amount of our total damage. If windfury was perma-buffed by 200% (seems like a lot) it would still be 10-15% of total damage at best.

Not denying that. I denied the 2.6 sec attack speed part, and the math that followed, based on it. Imo WF/DW is more about MS generation, and more chances for Stormbringer within the same time frame, but yeah, the system as a whole is plenty flawed. We need more ways to ensure things, rather than have our best burst be entirely random.

See above: DW's duration is too short, CD is too long and effect is minimal. Even with 30% haste and 100% hits while DW is up, you're talking 2, maybe 3 more hits for a whopping 80K to 120K damage.

True, though maybe you'll get 2-3 extra Stormbringer procs you'd otherwhise wouldn't have had, plus respective flametongue/frostbrand hits off of those. As said above, DW is largely also about MS generation, not just raw damage.

For something to qualify as OP, it has to be very good AND not counter-able. You being inexperienced at pvp doesn't make an ability whose function you are unaware of OP, it just makes you a player with poor situational awareness. If anything, it needs a buff to make it explode when destroyed, dealing damage equal to all damage received by the shaman in the last 10 sec to all enemies in 20 yds.

Counterstrike totem in the chaos of random bgs will most often not be destroyed. There's just to much going on. Place it in a bush in warsong or something like that, people wont notice it unless they have an addon for it. Even if people notice it being placed, if it's placed nicely, in 3-5 seconds, it'll probably kill an enemy or two, so even then it did a fine job. Not noticing and killing it at all might very well spell the doom for an entire enemy group. It's that powerful. I'd say that's plenty OP.

Also, take a shaman team in pvp: 3 Counterstrike totems while enemies' pop their cds. => lowest hp member eats 3times his entire teams' damage, plus enemy damage. Even if the enemy is skilled, quickly picking off all 3 totems will take time and screw up their burst window. And at such high numbers, one of them already died already, problably.

As I said. OP and likely nerfed anytime soon.

Adding complexity is not a solution. Our problem is that we lost shamanistic rage, and we need that back as it was with the glyph effect baked in. We have no option but to heal, defensively, and that makes us go OOM as well as emptying out our maelstrom bar as you noted. We also need frost shock + frozen power, and it needs to either be "free" to cast or use mana, not maelstrom.

I did not claim it was "the solution". It would help, that's all I wanted to say. Blizz doesn't want unending super healing from an offspec, hence me proposing 2 healing spells, one for mana, one for ms. This would give us at least a little bit of choice. Getting the old system back...meh, I disliked the halfway effect of 1-5 stacks. It was rng-dependend as well.
If our heal was solely MS dependant, we wouldn't be able to heal at all once at low MS. If our heal was solely mana dependant, we'd have 5 instant heals at the beginning of a fight, which could be pretty insane, possibly.

I'm not saying reintroducing SR is wrong. In fact, I made the same suggestion on my 1st post here, read that .

Sham rage + frost shock w/frozen power would fix 70% of the pvp issues. Giving us grounding totem back would bump that back up to 80%. The 20% is going to stay 20% due to the relatively long ramp up and high upkeep requirements for our damage.

Not disagreeing here either, though I am not sure about percentages . I see FT/FB management as something that should be optional (hailstorm only slightly ahead in numbers in pve and FT being replacable by a talent in the same row as hailstorm would be nice).

You can already do that now; pop wolves and drop the CS totem, use the maelstrom from the wolves to heal while letting the CS totem reflect the attackers' dmg back. Problem with AG is that it sucks, not usable when stunned. The 8 sec duration is too short for a 1.5min CD, especially when the 1 min CD with 15 sec duration sham rage was "just right".

I meant the cooldown that healed you for a percentage of your damage; Ancestral Guidance (or did I mess something up?).
You drop Counterstrike, pop AG, enemy eats his own damage and totem heals you for 30% of the damage he does (assuming that number for that skill). The damage outside of totem you deal is also converted to 30% heal, so you get 60% of the damage back in a 1on1 scenario, providing same damage.

Pretty sure they're considered magic buffs within the game now. They are definitely no longer weapon imbues (i.e. physical buffs not dispellable). Either way, they're a cheap, lazy way to add unnecessary buttons to enhancement's rotation. They were better as weapon imbues and that's how they should be now.

Well, if you're just pretty sure, dont present it like fact. It costs you credibility. Not saying you're wrong, I dont know either. Test it in pvp and tell us results. As said, wow-head said they are not dispellable.
And I agree they are horrible. Definately the skill I hate most. It's like blizz didn't learn their lesson as they removed totems (without redesigning them properly), and put in imbues with a ton of disadvantages, where they had none before (save you could have just one per hand).

[Professor Expert]

Counterstrike totem in the chaos of random bgs will most often not be destroyed. There's just to much going on. Place it in a bush in warsong or something like that, people wont notice it unless they have an addon for it. Even if people notice it being placed, if it's placed nicely, in 3-5 seconds, it'll probably kill an enemy or two, so even then it did a fine job. Not noticing and killing it at all might very well spell the doom for an entire enemy group. It's that powerful. I'd say that's plenty OP.

In a BG setting it's not OP because if anyone has a simple addon for it, you either kill it or hold off on attacking for a few seconds. I'll maintain that for something to be OP it has to be well outside of the norm for what other classes can do AND it has to be effectively unavoidable. CS totem has numerous counters that any class can implement.

Also, take a shaman team in pvp: 3 Counterstrike totems while enemies' pop their cds. => lowest hp member eats 3times his entire teams' damage, plus enemy damage. Even if the enemy is skilled, quickly picking off all 3 totems will take time and screw up their burst window. And at such high numbers, one of them already died already, problably.

As I said. OP and likely nerfed anytime soon.

I don't think the effect stacks like that. The totem only reflects the damage being done to the shaman who dropped it. So if 3 dropped it at once but only one was being attacked, only that totem will reflect damage while the other two do nothing.

I did not claim it was "the solution". It would help, that's all I wanted to say. Blizz doesn't want unending super healing from an offspec, hence me proposing 2 healing spells, one for mana, one for ms. This would give us at least a little bit of choice. Getting the old system back...meh, I disliked the halfway effect of 1-5 stacks. It was rng-dependend as well.

The old system didn't cripple our main CDs by making them require maelstrom. I considered the MW5 a bonus, not a requirement. You could insta cast a few spells or heals, but you could do plenty of dmg without ever using MW5.

If our heal was solely MS dependant, we wouldn't be able to heal at all once at low MS. If our heal was solely mana dependant, we'd have 5 instant heals at the beginning of a fight, which could be pretty insane, possibly.

Which is why it should cost one or the other. If we have 20 maelstrom to spend, it's instant and uses maelstrom NOT mana. If we have less than 20 maelstrom, it uses mana and is not instant. Pretty easy fix.

I meant the cooldown that healed you for a percentage of your damage; Ancestral Guidance (or did I mess something up?).
You drop Counterstrike, pop AG, enemy eats his own damage and totem heals you for 30% of the damage he does (assuming that number for that skill). The damage outside of totem you deal is also converted to 30% heal, so you get 60% of the damage back in a 1on1 scenario, providing same damage.

Ancestral Guidance is no longer available to enhancement shaman, only elemental get it. Taking about Astral Shift - that's all we get now.

Well, if you're just pretty sure, dont present it like fact. It costs you credibility. Not saying you're wrong, I dont know either. Test it in pvp and tell us results. As said, wow-head said they are not dispellable.
And I agree they are horrible. Definately the skill I hate most. It's like blizz didn't learn their lesson as they removed totems (without redesigning them properly), and put in imbues with a ton of disadvantages, where they had none before (save you could have just one per hand).

No, it doesn't "cost me credibility" because we're having a colloquial conversation, not a lawsuit. No need for the douchey comments that's only going to cause me to mock you until you cry. Plus, you didn't know either, which is why you looked it up on wowhead. So let's not get too snooty here. They change the game so often and with hotfixes that sometimes go unannounced that nobody really keeps up with all the minutia.

Dispellable or not, we agree they suck. Weapon imbues were very shaman-flavor. Might be time to roll a demon hunter for now.

[Deleted]

Been having an absolute blast in random bgs the last few days. Mained Enhance since tbc, and its fantastic right now.

[Deleted]

It's hard to have a reasonable discussion when people who argue specs/classes are fine barely even know the abilities they have and don't have. It shows that they aren't arguing from an informed and honest position to begin with. For example counter strike totem keeps popping up. Counter strike totem is an IQ check. Nothing more, nothing less. It's a different and arguably worse version of monks touch without having the damag redirected aspect and being destroyable.

Saying "it's great in random BGs!" really doesn't say a lot.

A. it's new. Most people don't know about it yet. They however will learn over time and kill it on sight even in random BGs. Thus how good it is even there will go down by quite a bit.
B. Random BGs aren't what is important. RBGs, 3on3 etc are. People WILL be on the look out for this totem and it WILL die right away. It will be a nuisance at best and buy you a GCD or two at worst. And no, I personally do not care what is happening sub 1.5k mmr.

Ancestral Guidance is also completely gone. Instant healing surges are great and dandy but unless they crit pretty much all the time you wont actually be healing in a fight against another DPS but merely using your damage to instead nullify theirs in many cases. A templar's verdict can hit somewhere between 150-300k. If a retri is wailing on you you're not going to heal up but merely offset his damage while not doing any damage of your own and you can't sustain it while he can.

[Deleted]

In a BG setting it's not OP because if anyone has a simple addon for it, you either kill it or hold off on attacking for a few seconds. I'll maintain that for something to be OP it has to be well outside of the norm for what other classes can do AND it has to be effectively unavoidable. CS totem has numerous counters that any class can implement.

Most people dont seem to have one, personal experience. And if you need an addon to not get fucked over by a talent or ability, it is basically op, because the basic game doesn't prepare you for it enough.

I don't think the effect stacks like that. The totem only reflects the damage being done to the shaman who dropped it. So if 3 dropped it at once but only one was being attacked, only that totem will reflect damage while the other two do nothing.

Dont guess; verify.

here's the wow-head tooltip:

Counterstrike Totem Honor Talent
3% of base mana 40 yd range
Instant 45 sec cooldown
Requires Shaman
Requires level 16
Requires honor level 19
Summons a Air Totem with 10 health at the feet of the caster for 15 sec.

Whenever enemies within 20 yards of the totem deal direct damage, the totem will deal 100% of the damage dealt back to the lowest health enemy within range of the totem.

So unless it is dot damage and the attacker being within 20y of the totem, ALL damage gets thrown on the lowest health guy. If there are 3 Totems, this happens 3 times, hence 3 times. It does not reflect, it duplicates the damage the enemy did, and let's him eat it. Each totem will deal it's own damage.
Fot the ultimate result, you'd have a 3 shaman team vs a 3dps team without affli/shadow/feral/unholy preferably. That's pretty specific, but it's only the ultimate result. Even getting the half enefit of a single CS totem is HUGE.

The old system didn't cripple our main CDs by making them require maelstrom. I considered the MW5 a bonus, not a requirement. You could insta cast a few spells or heals, but you could do plenty of dmg without ever using MW5.

Maelstrom isn't really the limiting factor in our heal equation. Mana and the global cooldown is. You'll have to heal often enough to go oom before long. And then you die. Having to spend multiple gcds to stay alive while having a Stormbringer ready is hurting more then the MS spent, imo. 20MS is not that much for one instant heal. After all, auto hits and wf procs will generate MS all the while. If you properly pool MS, I dont think you should have that much problems from a MS POV.
If we could decide though, in Emergencies we could still spend MS if we were oom, or go for mana when we dont have the MS for it, or can affort the mana/cast time.
And LB was among the stronger enh abilities in WOD, afaik. Before that, MSW healing was even more of a sacrifice, as it also included Hex, and the powerful Elemental Blast, which caused holding on to stacks for when you needed the burst, which was really badly designed.

Which is why it should cost one or the other. If we have 20 maelstrom to spend, it's instant and uses maelstrom NOT mana. If we have less than 20 maelstrom, it uses mana and is not instant. Pretty easy fix.

I just pointed out that neither design is good by itself and you proceed with "well, we just take one of them"...
And what you propose is hardly a fix, as it will only happen when you are low on MS. So either you can do nice heals and damage while you have MS, but both hinder each other, OR you are low on MS, cant throw out damage AND can only do casted heals.
So basically should enh ever run low on MS, it is pretty much doomed?
I rather have two independant heals and the choice.

Ancestral Guidance is no longer available to enhancement shaman, only elemental get it. Taking about Astral Shift - that's all we get now.

Astral Shift => AS
Ancestral Guidance => AG

I meant Ancestral Guidance, obviously. And yes, we no longer have it. Well, the same is true for SR, and you want it back. Guess what we could do about AG? That's right, bring it back! Didn't I mention that?

With a 1m cd AG or so, we could use counterstrike totem for insane selfhealing, just an example. We'd get it during times where enemies go for the kill too, se perfect synergy.

I guess it could've been clearer worded; my bad.

No, it doesn't "cost me credibility" because we're having a colloquial conversation, not a lawsuit. No need for the douchey comments that's only going to cause me to mock you until you cry. Plus, you didn't know either, which is why you looked it up on wowhead. So let's not get too snooty here. They change the game so often and with hotfixes that sometimes go unannounced that nobody really keeps up with all the minutia.

I am not pressing charges here, I am pointing out that people wont take you seriously if you throw out a dozen claims about things which you aren't even sure about. This is a rant about enhancement being horrible now, isn't it? Well, if you critisize things based on assumptions rather than facts, people will just pass you off as a troll => loss of credibility.
And yes, I didn't know they were not dispellable. Yes, that's why I looked it up. I rather look things up than say stuff I dont know is true or false. I played enh since vanilla and never heard anything at any point of time about dispellable imbues. Hence me being surprised about your claim. Because I dont claim to know everything though, I asked: "Are you sure?" instead of bashing you about being wrong.
This is not me being mean, it's me being factual. You can ignore my (imo) good advice and read tooltips, or dont, and face the consequences.
Just to point it out again: I agree that there's several things about enhance that are bad right now. I agree on many things you've said, and I (in detail) explained why that is so. Dont just take things personal.

Dispellable or not, we agree they suck. Weapon imbues were very shaman-flavor. Might be time to roll a demon hunter for now.

They are still shaman flavor, that's not the problem. It's just no good gameplay design to expect us to juggle five buffs, as our design requires now tedious ramp up (=> rockbiter => flametongue => hailstorm => rockbiter => crash lightning) and insane uptime to pay off. For every second we cant hit our enemy, apart of your imbues goes to waste. Imbues are basically a melee range dot know. One which you have to apply everytime you close the distance, costing you 2-3 gcds everytime.

- - - Updated - - -

It's hard to have a reasonable discussion when people who argue specs/classes are fine barely even know the abilities they have and don't have. It shows that they aren't arguing from an informed and honest position to begin with. For example counter strike totem keeps popping up. Counter strike totem is an IQ check. Nothing more, nothing less. It's a different and arguably worse version of monks touch without having the damag redirected aspect and being destroyable.

Saying "it's great in random BGs!" really doesn't say a lot.

A. it's new. Most people don't know about it yet. They however will learn over time and kill it on sight even in random BGs. Thus how good it is even there will go down by quite a bit.
B. Random BGs aren't what is important. RBGs, 3on3 etc are. People WILL be on the look out for this totem and it WILL die right away. It will be a nuisance at best and buy you a GCD or two at worst. And no, I personally do not care what is happening sub 1.5k mmr.

Ancestral Guidance is also completely gone. Instant healing surges are great and dandy but unless they crit pretty much all the time you wont actually be healing in a fight against another DPS but merely using your damage to instead nullify theirs in many cases. A templar's verdict can hit somewhere between 150-300k. If a retri is wailing on you you're not going to heal up but merely offset his damage while not doing any damage of your own and you can't sustain it while he can.

All true and I didn't state otherwise(in case that's what you're implying). "It's strong against Noobs and will be nerfed because of that" was my initial description of the talent. Noobs will whine about it and that will be the end of things for it, easy as that. Similar fate as for grounding totem in vanilla, which would be able to ground every 2 or 3 seconds or so, if the spell it grounded did no direct damage.

I remember killing a mage only with standing in front of his face, auto-hitting him and placing grounding at the beginning. His look must have been priceless, with all his polys eaten .

[kosajk]

IMO its not that bad, burst is grate, healing really good
ascendance could be buffed to work with all abilities or at least with lava leash to have anything beside auto attacks when procs god is not on our side,
AS could be usable in stun, LL doing a bit more dmg, and some ranged slowing ability would solve all the problems for me

[Professor Expert]

Most people dont seem to have one, personal experience. And if you need an addon to not get fucked over by a talent or ability, it is basically op, because the basic game doesn't prepare you for it enough.

You could say that about many elements of the game. They don't lead you around by the nose, and they shouldn't. I'm not a fan of relying on addons for hard-to-miss attacks or CDs, I prefer to work on developing my own intuition to detect what the player is going to do. OP still means outside the norm, if you like math and I don't, outside of the range specified by normal distribution. With the existence of monks, CS totem is hardly in that realm.

The more I've played the game, the more I feel like damage comes way too fast, especially since the "normalized" pvp stats are far from optimal, as enhancement is very haste-dependent. I used to get my haste from weapon enchants, but now enchants are disabled in pvp.

Dont guess; verify.

here's the wow-head tooltip:

Tooltips are often vague. I don't think this one is conclusive.

So unless it is dot damage and the attacker being within 20y of the totem, ALL damage gets thrown on the lowest health guy. If there are 3 Totems, this happens 3 times, hence 3 times. It does not reflect, it duplicates the damage the enemy did, and let's him eat it. Each totem will deal it's own damage.
Fot the ultimate result, you'd have a 3 shaman team vs a 3dps team without affli/shadow/feral/unholy preferably. That's pretty specific, but it's only the ultimate result. Even getting the half enefit of a single CS totem is HUGE.

If you're right, that is pretty awesome and would be funny to see...I haven't tried it yet, but ranged classes can easily stay out of the 20 yd radius. That's not very far. This is more of a counter to melee, whom enhancement doesn't exactly stand toe-to-toe with due to the lack of defensive CDs.

Maelstrom isn't really the limiting factor in our heal equation. Mana and the global cooldown is. You'll have to heal often enough to go oom before long. And then you die. Having to spend multiple gcds to stay alive while having a Stormbringer ready is hurting more then the MS spent, imo. 20MS is not that much for one instant heal. After all, auto hits and wf procs will generate MS all the while. If you properly pool MS, I dont think you should have that much problems from a MS POV.
If we could decide though, in Emergencies we could still spend MS if we were oom, or go for mana when we dont have the MS for it, or can affort the mana/cast time.
And LB was among the stronger enh abilities in WOD, afaik. Before that, MSW healing was even more of a sacrifice, as it also included Hex, and the powerful Elemental Blast, which caused holding on to stacks for when you needed the burst, which was really badly designed.

I didn't say it was. What I did say is that when we had the MW5 system, instant spells were free and had their effect doubled. The current system uses both maelstrom points and mana when we heal, which limits us to about 5 heals if we had a full bar. It's good, until you realize that you'll need a lot more than 5 heals to stay up considering how quick dmg comes in.

My ability to survive was far greater pre-legion than it is now, and not just because all things die quicker...they don't. I just had more tools to deal with attackers, mainly frost shock / frozen power.

I just pointed out that neither design is good by itself and you proceed with "well, we just take one of them"...
And what you propose is hardly a fix, as it will only happen when you are low on MS. So either you can do nice heals and damage while you have MS, but both hinder each other, OR you are low on MS, cant throw out damage AND can only do casted heals.
So basically should enh ever run low on MS, it is pretty much doomed?
I rather have two independant heals and the choice.

What I proposed is almost exactly what you said, except that instead of having two spells for healing, the spell automatically chooses between maelstrom or mana, prefering maelstrom over mana. If you have 20 or more maelstrom, heal is instant and only uses maelstrom. Otherwise it is casted and uses mana. Easy and very much in tune with what enhancement is - fast-paced play.

Astral Shift => AS
Ancestral Guidance => AG

I meant Ancestral Guidance, obviously. And yes, we no longer have it. Well, the same is true for SR, and you want it back. Guess what we could do about AG? That's right, bring it back! Didn't I mention that?

I guess it could've been clearer worded; my bad.

I don't miss AG much after it was nerfed. It was pretty awesome in mists, but in WoD the amount of healing it did was cut because it of the nerf to ascendance. Much rather have SR if I had to choose, with the effect of the glyph baked in (dispels all magic debuffs).

I am not pressing charges here, I am pointing out that people wont take you seriously if you throw out a dozen claims about things which you aren't even sure about. This is a rant about enhancement being horrible now, isn't it? Well, if you critisize things based on assumptions rather than facts, people will just pass you off as a troll => loss of credibility.

Like I said, it's a discussion. People can verify things on their own...and enhancement isn't horrible but it's definitely worse than before in more ways than it is better.

And yes, I didn't know they were not dispellable. Yes, that's why I looked it up. I rather look things up than say stuff I dont know is true or false. I played enh since vanilla and never heard anything at any point of time about dispellable imbues. Hence me being surprised about your claim. Because I dont claim to know everything though, I asked: "Are you sure?" instead of bashing you about being wrong.

Or you could look it up, which you did, and now we know.

They are still shaman flavor, that's not the problem. It's just no good gameplay design to expect us to juggle five buffs, as our design requires now tedious ramp up (=> rockbiter => flametongue => hailstorm => rockbiter => crash lightning) and insane uptime to pay off. For every second we cant hit our enemy, apart of your imbues goes to waste. Imbues are basically a melee range dot know. One which you have to apply everytime you close the distance, costing you 2-3 gcds everytime.

Totems for buffs that affect us and others in our group.

Imbues for shaman-only enhancements. They buff your weapons, and UE did on one GCD (and more) what we now have to expend two GCDs to do. I mean, that's how it has been from day one since shaman were horde-only. Enhancement shaman brought badass buffs that nobody else had and were indispensable. They did bring back the public windfury totem but it's a dubious choice over CS...and it is pvp-only.

Having to apply and maintain FT/FB is the worst decision ever. I hate it and when demon hunters ranged snare lasts 10 sec, why the F does the frostbrand slow fall off in 3 sec? It's just bad.

IMO its not that bad, burst is grate, healing really good
ascendance could be buffed to work with all abilities or at least with lava leash to have anything beside auto attacks when procs god is not on our side,
AS could be usable in stun, LL doing a bit more dmg, and some ranged slowing ability would solve all the problems for me

I think that's the consensus. You're basically saying what I'm saying - bring back frost shock w/frozen power. Make it free or cost mana, give it a 5 sec CD and most problems fixed. FT and FB should go back to being weapon imbues.

Imagine if rogues had to reapply poison to their weapons every 15 sec....

[tbm13]

My problems with Enh PvP
FB is terrible. Lasting 3 seconds is a joke. Increase range to 20 yards, hailstorm reduces cost by 50%.( I am happy that it was hot fixed to apply on cast now)
Healing surge requiring mana AND Maelstrom sucks. I like one of the above posters idea of using Maelstrom over 20 and being instant, and using mana with a cast if under 20.
Feral lunge needs a root added to it.
Our stat template needs to be looked at. I'd sacrifice some agility for more mastery and haste.(gameplay is much better in PvE for me)
AS usable in stuns.
Not related to enhance, I want stun durations reduced by 1 sec across the board. No stun should last longer than 4 seconds. Imo

[Ollz113]

So I just got around to trying out my enhancement shaman for the first time after the v7 patch and it's about as bad as I thought it would be. The biggest issue is the feel that it used to have, the feeling that made it fun to play, is now gone.

I don't really want to make a big list of problems, but suffice it to say that the few improvements they made, such as having ghost wolf prevent movement speed from dropping below 100%, do not offset the crappy new paradigm of having to build up maelstrom to do any kind of significant damage.

What I like:
- Ghost Wolf is now the way it should have been all along.
- Instant healing surge that consumes maelstrom allows for multiple instant heals in a row.
- We actually enhance our teammates, but the degree to which we do isn't all that great and very conditional.

What I dislike:
- No grounding totem? Seriously, wtf.

- Purge is super-expensive; we can only use it 5 times before going OOM (but I guess we are supposed to be thankful that it's still in the game at all).

- Speaking of totems, we don't have any. No earthbind? No healing stream? Come on. Totems were a part of any shaman spec like pets are to huntards and spells are to mages.

- You'll die in a stun. Standard pvp trinket is now on 3 min (without honor talents). No more shamanistic rage to dispel paladin or huntard stuns. You get one incredibly weak defensive CD, astral shift, and it's a long 1.5 min CD with a short duration. Worst of all it is NOT usable in a stun.

- Lava Lash is essentially pointless. It costs maelstrom but does about as much damage as boulderfist...and no, the "hot hand" talent is not worth taking over boulderfist.

- The rockbiter/boulderfist sound effect is indescribably annoying.

- Stormstrike is both expensive and on a CD that is far too long. It relies on stormbringer proc along with the "tempest" talent to be useful, which also means that ascendance is useless now because if you use ascendance without a stormbringer proc you'll get one windstrike (stormstrike) off and then incur a CD that lasts for the duration of ascendance.

- Ascendance is now a talent, 3 min CD is too long for what it is and it relies on a RNG proc to be effective. Without the proc it's useless, thus rendering our big DPS CD to being wolves.

- Wolves do not heal anymore, but the maelstrom they generate can allow you to spam heal yourself for the short time they are up. Their duration has been cut to 15s while the CD remains 2m. Bad. They should last longer or do more while they are active, and should be immune to all CC.

- Lightning shield is now a worthless talent. Ancestral Swiftness should be a spec passive not a talent. Hailstorm is the ONLY way to go on that tier.

- Frostbrand requires maelstrom so we cannot snare from range now that frost shock is out. All shocks were removed, which is stupid, but the lack of frost shock for enhancement is incredibly stupid. Frostbrand only slows for 3 sec before the snare must be reapplied, making it incredibly easy to kite an enhance shaman. So so so bad.

- Not fun anymore. Sadly, enhancement now feels like a clunky and less-capable warrior or deathknight...exactly as bad as I thought it would be when I read the proposed changes earlier.

I will add that while the artifact weapon and honor talents which become available later may make playing as enhancement a bit more tolerable, neither of these things will make it fun again. Enhancement shaman, what used to be the most spec in the game hands-down, is now just another memory.

There are a lot of 1700 heroes on here.

Lets get one thing straight, enhance was the most OP melee last season by miles, you could pressure the enemy team with NO cooldowns and had an enormous amount of utility. A friend of mine who had never picked up an enhance shammy in 9 years got 2900 glad and only missed out on r1 because he was away for the last 2 weeks of the season. Turbo was the most overpowered comp since RLS in season 10 with cunning of the cruel and legendary daggers or TSG with shadowmourne...

Wait until full honor talents and season starts to see where we stand, especially as there will likely be a large tuning pass which will affect other classes more than Shaman. The only thing I'm really missing is shamanistic rage. Counterstrike/Skyfury and Shamanism talents are great honor talents.

[Deleted]

Heroism, because I don't roll horde, is a long CD with an additional debuff that keeps you from benefiting more than once every 10 min. You cannot use it in ranked pvp, and it's only worth mentioning if you choose the honor talent which makes it affect only you and one friendly target.

Just had to quote this.
OP obviously has no knowledge about Enhancement-PVP.
Would LOVE to see your Armory-Link!