Legion - Outlaw Discussion

[Master Guns]

A heroic boss is a heroic boss. It dies within the typical timeframe of a heroic boss. So, if I get one buff, like you all are saying, I am doing roughly no more than 150k DPS. I do 240k as Assass.

Again, give me some video proof of you "pro" outlaw rogues doing such absurd DPS as you claim as outlaw with just rolling one buff.

I have talked to COUNTLESS rogues who are all frustrated to death with RTB, because they, like myself, get 6+ 1 buff rolls in a row. And like I said, that's about 150k DPS for me at 837 ilvl, yet 230k+ at the same ilvl as assass.

[Sephiroso]

A heroic boss is a heroic boss. It dies within the typical timeframe of a heroic boss. So, if I get one buff, like you all are saying, I am doing roughly no more than 150k DPS. I do 240k as Assass.

Again, give me some video proof of you "pro" outlaw rogues doing such absurd DPS as you claim as outlaw with just rolling one buff.

I have talked to COUNTLESS rogues who are all frustrated to death with RTB, because they, like myself, get 6+ 1 buff rolls in a row. And like I said, that's about 150k DPS for me at 837 ilvl, yet 230k+ at the same ilvl as assass.

I'll see if i can download fraps or something and upload a video.

[Deleted]

A heroic boss is a heroic boss. It dies within the typical timeframe of a heroic boss. So, if I get one buff, like you all are saying, I am doing roughly no more than 150k DPS. I do 240k as Assass.

Again, give me some video proof of you "pro" outlaw rogues doing such absurd DPS as you claim as outlaw with just rolling one buff.

I have talked to COUNTLESS rogues who are all frustrated to death with RTB, because they, like myself, get 6+ 1 buff rolls in a row. And like I said, that's about 150k DPS for me at 837 ilvl, yet 230k+ at the same ilvl as assass.

I'm honestly not sure you should be listening to that guy.

I'm 844 on my rogue. If I do a heroic dungeon and I get a good rtb going then yes, breaching 200k is easy. If you are in a mythic dungeon with mediocre dps and your rtb is only average 150-170k is much more likely to happen. People like overstating their own dps by taking outliers as the average. Always been like that

He'll depending on the boss and what your setup requires you to do, you could even go 120k on some bosses, I've done that recently.

Outlaw is very rng. If people tell you you should be doing 200k on average in content that matters, it means they swing between 150 and 250k. And I very much doubt that unless their rng is godlike

[wombats23]

A heroic boss is a heroic boss. It dies within the typical timeframe of a heroic boss. So, if I get one buff, like you all are saying, I am doing roughly no more than 150k DPS. I do 240k as Assass.

Again, give me some video proof of you "pro" outlaw rogues doing such absurd DPS as you claim as outlaw with just rolling one buff.

I have talked to COUNTLESS rogues who are all frustrated to death with RTB, because they, like myself, get 6+ 1 buff rolls in a row. And like I said, that's about 150k DPS for me at 837 ilvl, yet 230k+ at the same ilvl as assass.

it'd be far more fruitful for you to post a video of you playing outlaw so we can help you improve your dps.

[enzi]

If it's 1 buff and something useless, my dps is just subpar and sadly it's more often than I like.

It's really easy to get outdamaged, especially by DH. I don't have AR/CoD up all the time for trash and even if, I often can not compete. It's like a constant 500-1mil dps situation where I'm 1/3 behind. If 2 good rolls occur, or 3+ I outdamage everyone though.

The thing is, I'm totally okay with this dps variance in dungeons, but with raid bosses this can get frustrating. You can easily have subpar dps especially for burn phases or openers. And having no real control over this isn't something I really like. I'm leaning more into other specs now because of this.
Multilate or sub with it's very controlled and strong burst is perfect for raids.

So, I guess Outlaw for dungeons and mut/sub for raiding. Good thing outlaw/mut specs have the same stat priority.

Oh, and is it just me or is the simulated dps of outlaw way too high? I've reached 200k simulated dps in like 820 gear and only managed it with good 2/3+ procs. I don't know the model in depth, but I feel like the sim has too much procc luck. :3 A lot of people watch these lists and expectations are set a little too high.

[Master Guns]

it'd be far more fruitful for you to post a video of you playing outlaw so we can help you improve your dps.

I mean, I get what you're saying. But I'm not the one who saying something outrageous; you all are. Saying you're pulling 200k+ with 1 buff is simply absurd, outlandish, and downright impossible at my item level.

You act like i'ts hard. Outlaw is, by and large, a 2 button spec. You spam saber slash and finish with a 6 point runthrough, waiting and waiting until your energy regens until you can do it more. And you get 2 CD's, both on fairly long timers.

So, prove me wrong, and post a video of you doing this outlandish DPS with 1 buff. And no, a video of you getting god RNG procs isn't the same thing. Like I said, I can do 300k DPS as outlaw ST as well, once every 6 dungeons when I get a 6 buff proc.

[Notter]

Has anyone tried using AskMrRobot for checking what's the best gear for them?
there some weird stuff happening there.

for example, it suggests for me that Tempered Egg of Serpentrix is better than what other sims show, such as Chaos Talisman

should i stop using AskMrRobot to sim my character and check what gear is best?

[Sephiroso]

I mean, I get what you're saying. But I'm not the one who saying something outrageous; you all are. Saying you're pulling 200k+ with 1 buff is simply absurd, outlandish, and downright impossible at my item level.

You act like i'ts hard. Outlaw is, by and large, a 2 button spec. You spam saber slash and finish with a 6 point runthrough, waiting and waiting until your energy regens until you can do it more. And you get 2 CD's, both on fairly long timers.

So, prove me wrong, and post a video of you doing this outlandish DPS with 1 buff. And no, a video of you getting god RNG procs isn't the same thing. Like I said, I can do 300k DPS as outlaw ST as well, once every 6 dungeons when I get a 6 buff proc.

That's not how you play Outlaw correctly. This is why your dps is garbage.

[Master Guns]

Lol, please explain.

[Deleted]

Has anyone tried using AskMrRobot for checking what's the best gear for them?
there some weird stuff happening there.

for example, it suggests for me that Tempered Egg of Serpentrix is better than what other sims show, such as Chaos Talisman

should i stop using AskMrRobot to sim my character and check what gear is best?

I'm not really using it atm. I'm not even sure we found the correct stat weights yet and without them it's pretty pointless

[Geehbee]

A heroic boss is a heroic boss. It dies within the typical timeframe of a heroic boss. So, if I get one buff, like you all are saying, I am doing roughly no more than 150k DPS. I do 240k as Assass.

Again, give me some video proof of you "pro" outlaw rogues doing such absurd DPS as you claim as outlaw with just rolling one buff.

I have talked to COUNTLESS rogues who are all frustrated to death with RTB, because they, like myself, get 6+ 1 buff rolls in a row. And like I said, that's about 150k DPS for me at 837 ilvl, yet 230k+ at the same ilvl as assass.

Made an account to simply respond to this. I'm ilvl 846 with sub optimal secondary's and am shaking my head how you're demanding proof of doing 200k+ dps? How could you not be doing that, or be playing outlaw so poorly that you continually find yourself cornered into having 1 buff. I dont even understand how that's possible since its so easy to preload combo points going into boss fights and Marking/rerolling/AR/CoTDB etc. This isn't a raid setting we've been playing its mythic dungeons that you're continually pulling mobs into for easy refresher rolls.

Just stick to mut man, it's a great consistant spec.

[Master Guns]

Pooling combo points and mfd mean nothing when every roll is 1 buff.

[Sephiroso]

Lol, please explain.

You don't "spam saber slash and finish with a 6 point run through". If you have broadsides up, you shouldn't be using SS at 4cp unless you have to. You should refresh GS, then RT. Or use a opportunity proc then RT. If both of those situations aren't needed, just refresh GS anyway unless you just put it up then you can SS instead. No broadsides? You shouldn't be using SS at 5cp. If you need GS, use it, if you got an opportunity proc use it, if not you RT with 5cp.

You clearly don't know how the usage of your abilities change depending on what buffs you got from RTB. If you have broadsides, its pointless to use curse with it(unless its a 6 roll) if you know delaying curse for the duration of AR/your rolls won't lose a usage of curse itself.

- - - Updated - - -

Pooling combo points and mfd mean nothing when every roll is 1 buff.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm sorry bu it's laughable to use the words outlaw and consistent in the same sentence together. An example of consistent dps is Mut.

Every roll isn't 1 buff. Trust me, i get it. When you leave a dungeon and need to kill a few mobs for a quest so you MfD, roll and get a 6 buff thats wasted on shit that doesnt matter. The only thing thats laughable is you and people like you who over-exacerbate the "zomg 1 rolls blaarrgh".

[Chemii]

Whilst I'm pretty confident I can do competitive DPS as Outlaw, I can certainly echo Master Guns sentiments, I have Outlaw at 18 points Assas/Sub at 13 each. All are 860+ ilvl weapons with Outlaw being 873ilvl.

As Assassination I can burst over 450K and maintain about 300k dps CONSISTENTLY. You can't do that as Outlaw, even just based on the fact that Greed doesn't proc enough, nevermind RtB being unfair.

Sims on my Outlaw, which is 845ilvl, 4 piece crafted and BiS trinkets puts me around 270,000k ST. For the most part this feels right but swings hugely to anything from 190k to 400k, which isn't consistent - That is the point Master Guns is making. No need to get all "lol retard, play better", when he has a point.

For that reason I am actually working to my second gold in Assassination for early raiding and leaving Outlaw at 18 points.

[wombats23]

I mean, I get what you're saying. But I'm not the one who saying something outrageous; you all are. Saying you're pulling 200k+ with 1 buff is simply absurd, outlandish, and downright impossible at my item level.

You act like i'ts hard. Outlaw is, by and large, a 2 button spec. You spam saber slash and finish with a 6 point runthrough, waiting and waiting until your energy regens until you can do it more. And you get 2 CD's, both on fairly long timers.

So, prove me wrong, and post a video of you doing this outlandish DPS with 1 buff. And no, a video of you getting god RNG procs isn't the same thing. Like I said, I can do 300k DPS as outlaw ST as well, once every 6 dungeons when I get a 6 buff proc.

first, i never purported that just anyone is able to pull 200k+ with just 1 buff or a string of bad rolls. to say "someone" is able to pull (random number) dps without context is useless.

second, i am able to pull 140k dps on a dummy doing nothing but GS, SS, PS and RT (i.e. I'm not using AR, CotDB, MfD, or RtB at 846 ilvl). needless to say, in a dungeon where there is some mix of:
-MfD abuse on adds
-cleave or
-fishing for buffs on trash
i can pull 200k+ dps without breaking a sweat. when you take into account how wildly DPS can fluctuate depending on the fight length, for me, or anyone, to post a video would be pointless and prove nothing.

third, if you'd actually like some help, post something of substance that others can provide actual feedback on. otherwise, feel free to stick to playing sin. there's nothing wrong with it.

[Deleted]

Whilst I'm pretty confident I can do competitive DPS as Outlaw, I can certainly echo Master Guns sentiments, I have Outlaw at 18 points Assas/Sub at 13 each. All are 860+ ilvl weapons with Outlaw being 873ilvl.

As Assassination I can burst over 450K and maintain about 300k dps CONSISTENTLY. You can't do that as Outlaw, even just based on the fact that Greed doesn't proc enough, nevermind RtB being unfair.

Sims on my Outlaw, which is 845ilvl, 4 piece crafted and BiS trinkets puts me around 270,000k ST. For the most part this feels right but swings hugely to anything from 190k to 400k, which isn't consistent - That is the point Master Guns is making. No need to get all "lol retard, play better", when he has a point.

For that reason I am actually working to my second gold in Assassination for early raiding and leaving Outlaw at 18 points.

Completely agree.

Yes it's easy to get good rolls before a boss if you have a tank willing to dote on you with well timed pulls. But ain't no one got time for that shit.

Especially knowing that trash dps matters just as much as boss dps in dungeons leading up to mythic plus.

You should be counting on having 1 roll with mfd pre boss and then one quick on at pull cus of full energy. If these two are shit, you are already looking at lower dps on the boss. That's just a fact. It takes a duck load of time between each roll of you get unlucky rolls. And yes I have tried getting cd reduction 3 times in a row in a mythic dungeon.

People who act like rng can't punish you in this spec are just fucking idiots to be fair.

Show me video footage of peopl consistently hitting 200k plus dps as outlaw with 1-2 buffs in a group where the rest of the dps average to about 120-150k.

Edit: this Bing in relevant content. No one wants to see you do 200k dps for 20 seconds on a patchwork normal dungeon fight.

[Deleted]

Pooling combo points and mfd mean nothing when every roll is 1 buff.

You've got to stop saying this, it's getting ridiculous. The odds of you getting more 7-8-9+ 1 buffs in a row is astronomically small. Does it happen? Sure. Does it happen in EVERY DUNGEON ALL THE TIME as you seem so convinced? Does it hell.

Anyway.
As an Outlaw all I'm being out DPS'd by at the moment is WW Monks, DH's and Hunters. Can't compete with their burst damage. I'm pretty happy with where the class is right now. Sure every now and again you'll be very unlucky and your DPS is going to tank - but you're just as likely to roll 6 buffs and destroy everybody else.

[Zaanm4n]

So when exactly do you stop rerolling for 2 buffs when it just won't proc ?

`Today on Smashspite i popped adren+curse and i rerolled THE ENTIRE duration of curse. had 3 single true bearings in a row. Followed by grand melee and jolly rogers. Fucked up my entire rotation and put me behind the two other dps which i am always above. and by a lot aswell.

I never reroll during curse unless i have broadside/buried treasure and that too jut maybe try once or i just make sure i go into curse without those 2 buffs, thats my advice dont know what the "pros" do though or suggest.

Doing the above has worked out pretty well for me almost on every encounter as far as burst is concerned.

[Deleted]

I mean, I get what you're saying. But I'm not the one who saying something outrageous; you all are.

LOL... I see you're back from your ban from your other "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" thread where you called everyone that didn't agree with you "elitists" and other stuff that I won't mention.

Jumping in the bandwagon of the FotM spec with no knowledge and expecting results is hilarious. Nobody should waste his time making "proof videos" for you. Like @wombats23 said, it's you who should make a video and I'm sure many people will point you to your mistakes that way. Although I'm pretty sure it's not help that you seek here, but confirmation that you're right, which you won't find.

[Master Guns]

Whilst I'm pretty confident I can do competitive DPS as Outlaw, I can certainly echo Master Guns sentiments, I have Outlaw at 18 points Assas/Sub at 13 each. All are 860+ ilvl weapons with Outlaw being 873ilvl.

As Assassination I can burst over 450K and maintain about 300k dps CONSISTENTLY. You can't do that as Outlaw, even just based on the fact that Greed doesn't proc enough, nevermind RtB being unfair.

Sims on my Outlaw, which is 845ilvl, 4 piece crafted and BiS trinkets puts me around 270,000k ST. For the most part this feels right but swings hugely to anything from 190k to 400k, which isn't consistent - That is the point Master Guns is making. No need to get all "lol retard, play better", when he has a point.

For that reason I am actually working to my second gold in Assassination for early raiding and leaving Outlaw at 18 points.

This guy gets it.