The Valkyra not the Night Elves are the Amazonian warriors

[Beloren]

It's become quite clear, when you do Stormheim, it's the Valkyra and the shiedlmaidens that have that Amazonian Wonder Woman warrior clan. Not the Night elves

The night elves never struck me as that, there were similarities sometimes, but they had men as part of the society. It wasn't a Matriarchy either, not even under Azshara, men played an equal but contrasting role. Amongst the Vigil Kal'dorei, men were the casters, druids, and the women the warriors, but it was an equal thing, and the males were quite desired, which isn't quite the Amazonian thing.

However in discovering the Shieldmaidens, they fit the bill quite well. Is this another retcon? a re-write? or nothing like that? As the night elves gain more definition, they are turning out to be quite surprising.. who'd have thought they had such a grand arcane civilization when you look at Suramar... or thought they could be so ruthlessly efficient.. my first impression of them were hippy tree huggers, skinny dudes that smoked lots of weed and all about nature.

Lol, when I started getting interested in the blood elves, in time night elves kept showing up, and it is looking like it's the druid image that belied this group, like blizzard shone the light on only one part of a much bigger whole.. or maybe they changed. Maybe when they started them, they intended them to be huge and diverse, finding their feet again, getting magic back.. but then WoW came in, and they mistakenly made them alliance, and horde was the place to be, so they just made them druids, kinda like how they made druids just healers .. then they discovered that was so boring they would work on them again.

The Vrykul are a very interesting and fascinating group, they have enough assets to be a full race or to be a human sub-race.. depending on how big a thing blizzard decide a sub-race would be. they could work as ahuman sub-race.. with the Kvaldir as a forsaken sub-race.

[Valech]

ok

/10chars

[ravenmoon]

It's become quite clear, when you do Stormheim, it's the Valkyra and the shiedlmaidens that have that Amazonian Wonder Woman warrior clan. Not the Night elves

The night elves never struck me as that, there were similarities sometimes, but they had men as part of the society. It wasn't a Matriarchy either, not even under Azshara, men played an equal but contrasting role. Amongst the Vigil Kal'dorei, men were the casters, druids, and the women the warriors, but it was an equal thing, and the males were quite desired, which isn't quite the Amazonian thing.

However in discovering the Shieldmaidens, they fit the bill quite well. Is this another retcon? a re-write? or nothing like that? As the night elves gain more definition, they are turning out to be quite surprising.. who'd have thought they had such a grand arcane civilization when you look at Suramar... or thought they could be so ruthlessly efficient.. my first impression of them were hippy tree huggers, skinny dudes that smoked lots of weed and all about nature.

Lol, when I started getting interested in the blood elves, in time night elves kept showing up, and it is looking like it's the druid image that belied this group, like blizzard shone the light on only one part of a much bigger whole.. or maybe they changed. Maybe when they started them, they intended them to be huge and diverse, finding their feet again, getting magic back.. but then WoW came in, and they mistakenly made them alliance, and horde was the place to be, so they just made them druids, kinda like how they made druids just healers .. then they discovered that was so boring they would work on them again.

The Vrykul are a very interesting and fascinating group, they have enough assets to be a full race or to be a human sub-race.. depending on how big a thing blizzard decide a sub-race would be. they could work as ahuman sub-race.. with the Kvaldir as a forsaken sub-race.

they are not at all. But many people I think miss this.. maybe it's because they never followed the night elf lore or descriptions, just reacted to what they saw. They saw trees and arrows, with sexy dressed warriors and assumed that.. Night elves were never a rural race to me, they were a post-apoclayptic group who'd been living it barebones for the greater good. They came off as highly civilized people, living a simpler lifestyle by choice, not by nature.

But I don't think many got that, because they didn't read up on them at all or properly. Especially after WotA - you were described a very high society, and you get to see that in -game when you visit Suramar City - which is basically lifted off those pages and virtually brought to life. In early experiences, you see a group that seem far too civilized for their rural settings, and you realize that there is far more to them than that, and the lore shows you actually, there is especially when you delve in to the pre-sundering details. There is no place there for that Amazonian warrior classification. There is a vibe of it in the females, but it's just a vibe, nothing more. Yet some people fell in love with that... so to each his own. There is also no reason why you can't have more than 1 amazonian female warrior types. The actual ones in the Shieldmaidens and an echo of that in the Preistesses of the Moon. But the night elves were always much more than just that.

Typical people though, like to put in one box with a label, like it simple, easy to categorize, woe betide they be realistic and varied and diverse, they get confused and keep trying to argue them back into the box. Look how difficult people are at believing Suramar is a night elf city, night elf built, the nightborne can't be night elves because they're not in trees, they are not in the box they had placed them in so they have a hard time believing otherwise.

[Deleted]

Or they are the Norse Valkyrie, ever thought of that?

[ravenmoon]

Or they are the Norse Valkyrie, ever thought of that?

they are, but that's who the Marvel & DC Comics Amazonians are based off of. You know, Thor.. Valhalla etc, Wonder woman also - it's the norse thing

[DarkTZeratul]

they are, but that's who the Marvel & DC Comics Amazonians are based off of. You know, Thor.. Valhalla etc, Wonder woman also - it's the norse thing

Amazons were Greek, not Norse. Wonder Woman was born of Zeus, not Odin.

[ravenmoon]

Amazons were Greek, not Norse. Wonder Woman was born of Zeus, not Odin.

I'm confusing my mythology - they feel like they are all copies of each other with different names though right...

[Deleted]

They're valkyries.

[ravenmoon]

Amazons were Greek, not Norse. Wonder Woman was born of Zeus, not Odin.

you mean Wonder woman was Zeus daughter? is that part of the new movie or in the comic storyline?

[Katie45]

you mean Wonder woman was Zeus daughter? is that part of the new movie or in the comic storyline?

no thats how its always been

and norse and greek mythology is very different, like night and day

[Aeula]

I definitely hate the focus on Druidism in night elf society. There are so many aspects to the race and that aspect always hogs the spotlight thanks to Malfurion.

[Frontenac]

When we first meet the Night Elves in Warcraft III, they were indeed an amazonian, matriarchical society. It was during the Long Vigil. The main deity is a goddess, her priesthood composed entirely of women who were the political rulers and military commanders of the Sentinels, again all women. Meanwhile, the druids were all men and were all in hibernation. It was even implied that all male were druids and that Night Elven society was composed of women during the Long Vigil. Which seems to have been retconned after. Anyway, with politics and military in the hands of women, the few remaining men had a subordinate role in society while all the druids were slumbering.

They only changed that for World of Warcraft because most of the playerbase would not have appreciated that some classes were restricted to one gender for Night Elves. Regardless, I don't remember ever seeing a notable character that was a male night elf priest...

Since the Night Elves were introduced to us as a matriarchal society, people assume they are still that way. It's like people thinking that the Dune universe is always lead by a feudal hierarchy, because that's how it was introduced to us.

- - - Updated - - -

I definitely hate the focus on Druidism in night elf society. There are so many aspects to the race and that aspect always hogs the spotlight thanks to Malfurion.

It's like saying : "I hate the focus on communism in USSR. There are so many aspects to the country and that aspect always hogs the spotlight thanks to Lenin."

[DemonHunter18]

you mean Wonder woman was Zeus daughter? is that part of the new movie or in the comic storyline?

that's a new thing. she was originally born when Gods made her out of clay. in New 52, she is the daughter of Zeus.

[Wyrt]

Um, the valkyra are norse, not greek.

[Deleted]

It's like saying : "I hate the focus on communism in USSR. There are so many aspects to the country and that aspect always hogs the spotlight thanks to Lenin."

Druidism isn't even the main religion of the night elves...

[Aquamonkey]

I'm confusing my mythology - they feel like they are all copies of each other with different names though right...

According to Hercules: The Legendary Journeys, they are completely different. Hercules went and visited the Norse gods.

[Deleted]

Sure, after they retconned Night Elf lore and made them a shadow of their Warcraft 3 selves.

[Frontenac]

Druidism isn't even the main religion of the night elves...

Druidism is not a religion. It is more an ideology. Druidism and the worship of Elune are intertwined in night elven society. All night elf druids worship Elune. All priestesses of Elune agree with the tenets of druidism. Cenarius and the Ancients, that we link with the druids, are also part of the night elven polytheism. Even if the Night Elves are more lenient towards arcane magic doesn't mean that druidism is not at the core of their society. At least the ones that we play.

[Draeth]

You have horribly, horribly conflated both real-world mythology and Warcraft lore here.

There is very heavy Greek influence in the Elf lore and the Vrykul lore is nearly transliterated from Norse mythology. They are completely different sources with completely different entities and themes.

Edit: and don't use comic books as the basis for your understanding of mythology.

[Aucald]

I would actually say the Night Elven aspects of spirituality and religion seem more akin to Shintoism than the Greek/Roman mythologies. The Wild Gods and the Emerald Dream would stand in for the concept of the Kami. I agree with the Vrykul lore being very heavily influenced by Norse mythology - the same with the Titan Pantheon having definite parallels to Norse gods and goddesses.