Arms Legion Discussion

[giniyo]

I was expecting the Arms nerf, but I wasn't expecting warrior to be the only touched class...FFS Outlaw rogue has amazing ST AND really good AoE and they don't get touched at all?

I know this is only the first hotfix pass, but considering they only touched our DPS (Arms FR is also the hardest spec in the game to play right now with its APM) I am worried as fuck. I already started leveling my DK and putting more focus on my DH because I don't trust Blizz.

the insane gap between dps classes aoe output bothers me to the point i dont know what alt to level, basically waiting for real changes... not this

[Dannyfalcon]

So does anything change with the hotfixes to CS and FR?
Trinket changes or is FR build still most optimal?

[cFortyfive]

30 sec CD on CS must be a troll hotfix lol, if you're not getting any tactician procs in 30s, you're last anyway. It would only be marginally good for leveling/questing.

That's the only upside I am seeing - higher chance for having it ready on pull. After 20 secs of no proc you might as well just go afk.

the insane gap between dps classes aoe output bothers me to the point i dont know what alt to level, basically waiting for real changes... not this

I don't know if it has ever been as ridiculous to be honest.

Unreal to me that blizzard thinks arms warriors are the only melee dps worth touching. In the immortal words of Han Solo

You are mistaking the process here - warriors could be dead last but they'd prioritize putting the warrior specs closer together over more general balance.

[Deleted]

I wonder if Slam is now the primary filler, with FR only during Battle Cry, to prevent rage capping and on cleave fights?

[ReD-EyeD]

I wonder if Slam is now the primary filler, with FR only during Battle Cry, to prevent rage capping and on cleave fights?

Absolutely not. They need to nerf FR to the ground to make it sub-Slam ability.

[Rhyzoh]

I wonder if Slam is now the primary filler, with FR only during Battle Cry, to prevent rage capping and on cleave fights?

I don't think I understand this sentence but the rotation/priority has not changed if that's what you're asking

[Deleted]

You are mistaking the process here - warriors could be dead last but they'd prioritize putting the warrior specs closer together over more general balance.

If that's the case, Fury's almost dead last. If they are only going to nerf it's now a race to the bottom for arms. Problem with arms atm is that it's a one trick pony. Amazing ST, weak sustained AoE. Compared to Outlaw, we're nothing.

That being said, if they don't nerf us further and buff Fury a bit, it would be perfect. However they should nerf Outlaw at the same time, jack of all trades master of all is stupid, not even mage has that anymore.

[Bigbazz]

Nothing changes, slam hits for peanuts anyway.There is a shift in rage efficiency between FR and Execute but not sure if that is enough to change anything. The other Arms specs were dumpster because unless you had good RNG they did absolutely dogshit dps, and even with good RNG it wasn't great, without good RNG it was absolutely useless. FR was superior not only because of big numbers but because it processed so much rage so efficiently allowing more tactition procs, making it more reliable (though still RNG, heavy).

We've got a 12% MS nerf (on a 3 stack) which is maybe 10% nerf during burst and probably 6-8% sustained, which I'm sure will be confirmed with more accurate numbers with sims soon.. This still leaves Arms pretty strong overall, just down a few notches. The CS cooldown reduction is a buff to non FR specs only because non FR specs actually suffered the 45 second cooldown on a regular basis.

[sjsctt]

--The sky is falling, the sky is falling--

As we gain a more stable dps margin while still maintaing #1 ST DPS....

[Anbokr]

--The sky is falling, the sky is falling--

As we gain a more stable dps margin while still maintaing #1 ST DPS....

No one is saying this. I think most of us are just questioning the hilarity of hotfixing arms SOLELY and nothing else.

[Bigbazz]

--The sky is falling, the sky is falling--

As we gain a more stable dps margin while still maintaing #1 ST DPS....

We never really had #1 ST DPS though, possibly with MS gloves but yeah fuck you if you actually got a legendary, fuck everyone with legendaries. Feral Druids and Outlaw Rogues can already compete with Arms, Outlaw can "outrng" us too with a 6 buff bonanza. It's not like we were clear ahead in first, we were part of the ginyu squad of winners at the top.

The damage nerf is real, it's not live on EU yet I don't think but I just tested on Beta and you can really feel/see the difference. For the no1 dps class in the game it sure doesn't show in dungeons (save for perhaps end boss eye of azshara, lol), it might have shown in raids but what happened to "more data".

If you ask anyone in game who doesn't have their heads buried in a sim then nobody is going to name Arms Warrior was one of the strongest classes. Because it's something that hasn't shown up yet, for sure Arms is strong but claiming #1 status based on some sims is downright dumb as fuck, the sims are proven wrong every single expansion (and patch, usually) when the real data comes in.

[Deleted]

Yeah, but what I got from that is, expect the shitty specs to be brought up just a bit before raids, and then after there will be a lot more data to do proper and broader balancing. He said specifically we'll have more data after raids release BUT we are "most likely" targetting a set of conservative tweaks for underperforming specs just before those raids actually release.

The key there being most likely lol, so he was careful not to commit to anything. But the two statements he made on pre and post raids were most definitely not mutually exclusive nor implied to be.

Well lets hope for another patch in a few hours then
I doubt that will happen, raids are open now, balance blows still.

[Kelato]

No one is saying this. I think most of us are just questioning the hilarity of hotfixing arms SOLELY and nothing else.

This. Some other classes ST and MT damage is so broken right now, it's not even funny. Also I expect another round of nerfs with the official balancing patch.

[cFortyfive]

As we gain a more stable dps margin while still maintaing #1 ST DPS....

It's just a couple days and we'll see to what extend the simcraft praising will translate to encounter performance.

[ReD-EyeD]

To be fair I have never seen an arms warrior (not even talking about good ones) in dungeons and I tank A LOT of randoms. So its really hard to compare classes in real events. DHs on the other side is always at the top tho.

[Valy]

it's 6-7% nerf on overall, don't worry, Arms still best spec atm

[eklone818]

Well lets hope for another patch in a few hours then
I doubt that will happen, raids are open now, balance blows still.

Raids don't open till next Tuesday

[Deleted]

Raids don't open till next Tuesday

Am I thinking one week into the future?^^
Really, thought we already had 3 weeks Legion, didn't start at release, got no track of time
Well sry then.

That means we still have one week for them to fiddle around, no worries then.

[Anbokr]

To be fair I have never seen an arms warrior (not even talking about good ones) in dungeons and I tank A LOT of randoms. So its really hard to compare classes in real events. DHs on the other side is always at the top tho.

I haven't either. They are all fury lol.

[sjsctt]

So you guys aren't seeing that when RNG is on your side, your numbers get completely fucking stupid? Because I am. I also see when it is not on my side, it gets sad.

Well, that is evening out with this patch. I think we'll be fine. The CS change was huge. Even if it is a slight nerf, the gameplay will be better, and that is my matter-of-fact opinion (yes, i know that's not how it works.) Even if they tweak more numbers, I think the CS CD will stick.