How can Blizzard fix Elemental?

[Deleted]

I guess we can all agree to disagree on the artifact ability then.

I like the resto ability as I find it functional and has a cool animation.

I don't like elemental ability as it has a poor animation, is annoying to use with GCD and doesn't feel very powerful. Only nice thing is when you have power of the maelstrom up and elemental focus up, making lightning bolt feel like a real spell.

This is all opinion and if you enjoy the artifact that's great, I don't and never will until they buff or change it.

[Deleted]

Restoration is healing, so completely different mechanics.

Enhancement has a very powerful artifact, more reliable than stormkeeper, its actually one of the best artifact perks in the game and beats most artifacts of any class

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I guess we can all agree to disagree on the artifact ability then.

I like the resto ability as I find it functional and has a cool animation.

I don't like elemental ability as it has a poor animation, is annoying to use with GCD and doesn't feel very powerful. Only nice thing is when you have power of the maelstrom up and elemental focus up, making lightning bolt feel like a real spell.

This is all opinion and if you enjoy the artifact that's great, I don't and never will until they buff or change it.

Oh no, I think its rather boring but I don't see any real fun ability for any class besides apocalypse for unholy DKs

[Lenis]

Oh so you are already resorting to name calling? You are the same type of crappy players that ruined the feedback session with blizard because they can't actually argue unless they whine and cry and call blizzard for intentionally "murdering" their spec. No wonder blizzard laughs at your type of players. You talk like a child and expect to be taken seriously? There is a fine line between constructive criticism and mindless whining "wah wah my class is dead, wah blizards hates me" and many hyperbole and misinformation

You are completely confusing the weakness of elemental shaman which is damage and ramp up with stormkeeper. The issue is not stormkeeper, the artifact ability can actually be very strong if the class is even slightly tuned up. Therefore its a great ability,much more useful than having just another form of big lava burst spell.

Icefury is great on ST damage burst, what on earth are you smoking? Another terrible elemental player complaining without understanding his own class, I've seen this in every forum discussion, some of them don't even read the tooltip of their own abilities, that speaks volume about the "quality feedback" some complainers pretend to give.

You are the one that whines here and ruins the thread so just shut up. I will explain it for you like a little cry baby that you are.

Stormkeeper on ST feels awkward to use, you have multiple cd's and procs so often you do not make use of all the charges.

Taking Icefury is loss of Primal Elementalist which is probbably most bursty thing that gives us most ST damage. THAT'S HUGE LOSS.
Lets just check default values:
Lighting Bolt x4 = 8seconds and 1140% spell power.
Icefury + Frost Shock x4 = 8 seconds and 1012% spell power.
That's dps loss for ability to move. Im not even counting in Primal Elementalist talent or your gear Haste that increases value of Lighting Bolts even more. And yet neither skill is able to keep up in damage with other specs in game.

Do you see actual problem?

[Deleted]

Frost shock x4 hits wayyyy harder than lightning bolt, what are you smoking, again?

You do know you don't use it with just 20 maelstrom?

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Empowered frostshock hit almost as hard as a full 100 maelstrom earthshock

[Kralljin]

Doing something was vague then so let me say a new ability that does something we haven't seen before with a cool animation

I don't think the majority of Artifact abilities really stand out for the visual effect, aside from the new "Raising it into the sky" animation.

and isn't just a damage buff (something that blizzard has said themselves they don't like for abilities).

I think that mostly applies to minor effects like Unleash Elements, not those types of ability in general.

Else abilities like Focused Rage wouldn't be in the game.

[Lenis]

Frost shock x4 hits wayyyy harder than lightning bolt, what are you smoking, again?

You do know you don't use it with just 20 maelstrom?

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Empowered frostshock hit almost as hard as a full 100 maelstrom earthshock

My bad, that should be around 1800% spell power. Actually two empowered frost shock hits as hard as one 100 maelstrom earthshock. Yet you lose primal elementalist which right now is our best performing talent Yet you just moved the actual discussion. We are speaking which Elemental skill hits hardest not how to improve Elemental to be able to keep up with others.

[Deleted]

My bad, that should be around 1800% spell power. Actually two empowered frost shock hits as hard as one 100 maelstrom earthshock. Yet you lose primal elementalist which right now is our best performing talent

I don't know, primal elementalist is very good but its a 5 min CD, great on bosses but since icefury has a rather short CD, I don't know if it doesn't overpower primal elementalist in the long run. And of course icefury is better on resilient trash mobs

[Lenis]

I don't know, primal elementalist is very good but its a 5 min CD, great on bosses but since icefury has a rather short CD, I don't know if it doesn't overpower primal elementalist in the long run. And of course icefury is better on resilient trash mobs

Coming back to the topic, neither of them keeps up with other specs in damage, thats the problem.

[Nyel]

Not saying that Stormkeeper is the best artifact ability, but stop assuming that any other Artifact is automatically better.

So tell me which DPS artifact ability is overall worse than Stormkeeper?

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Stormkeeper is actually amazing if you lot stop mindlessly whining, much better than some other caster abilities. If you think 200% chain lightning buff with 3 charges is bad then you are playing it wrong.

It is bad because it really doesn't give us anything besides a damage buff to our low damage Lightning skills. If you think Stormkeeper is "actually amazing" you literally have no clue what other classes can do with their artifact abilities which are on a lower CD and deal maybe twice or triple damage than 3 Stormkeeper LBs (Strike of the Wind Lord, Full Moon, Fury of the Illidari hello).

[Deleted]

Every expansion I start out elemental hoping it will be worth it. Same with legion, and again I find myself running back to enh asap. Call me chicken, but that's how it is. Damn shame to, raden is way cooler then doomhammer

It overall feel off and not much fun to play. The spells and animations are nice, but the rest is 'meh'.

[Deleted]

So tell me which DPS artifact ability is worse than Stormkeeper?

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It is bad because it really doesn't give us anything besides a damage buff to our low damage Lightning skills. If you think Stormkeeper is "actually amazing" you literally have no clue what other classes can do with their artifact abilities which are on a lower CD and deal maybe twice or triple damage than 3 Stormkeeper LBs (Strike of the Wind Lord, Full Moon, Fury of the Illidari hello).

You just use the same argument "look these op classes are so much better, please blizzard let us be like them?"

The only exception is full moon which does way more single target damage than AOE damage. You do realize its all about number tuning not the spell itself the issue right? Strike of the windlord is insane because of the damage not the mechanics of the spell.
Don't confuse spell mechanics and low damage,its irrelevant. Stormkeeper depends solely on number tuning just like every fucking dps spell in the game, no shit sherlock. When they buff (if they do) elemental damage, let us see you complain about this apparently "so bad, worse than everything" artifact ability.

I'm pretty sure destro warlocks wouldn't mind having stormkeeper instead of RNG portals

[Kralljin]

So tell me which DPS artifact ability is worse than Stormkeeper?

Based on what? Mechanics? Performance on ST / Cleave / AoE? Style?

[Nyel]

What OP classes? Moonkin? Moonkin is not OP but the artifact ability is far superior to Stormkeeper (much higher damage, lower CD, giving other utility (Astral power) as well). Not only is Full Moon on a 45sec CD an incredible ST DPS spell, the cleave damage is quite huge as well - and next to that it builds a high amount of Balance ressources (New Moon and Half Moon as well)

It's not only about number tuning. Stormkeeper is just bad. Bad mechanic, bad design, bad damage, overall just bad. It's damage is too low, the duration of the buff is too short, the amount of 3 is too low, it needs a GCD - Stormkeeper has many issues, the low number tuning is only one of them. And Stormkeeper is by far not the only problem Elemental Shamans have right now but it's maybe the problem that's most obvious.

Those RNG portals are still better than Stormkeeper. Sure, they're not for AoE but their ST potential is maybe three times as high as our 3 Stormkeeper-LBs.

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Based on what? Mechanics? Performance on ST / Cleave / AoE? Style?

Mechanic and overall performance. Stormkeeper might not be the worst but it's on the bottom line of the DPS abilities right now.

[Kralljin]

Mechanic and overall performance. Stormkeeper might not be the worst but it's on the bottom line of the DPS abilities right now.

If you think that Stormkeeper feels too weak and needs a buff, i believe that is a legit criticism.

But then you should not start making comparisons to other artifact abilities without even acknowlodging that they have downsides too, Stormkeeper might still be the weaker one afterwards but then you have at the very least a less biased picture.

[Kornum]

Every expansion I start out elemental hoping it will be worth it. Same with legion, and again I find myself running back to enh asap. Call me chicken, but that's how it is.

Same story here. Every single expansion since WotlK I have been starting out as Elemental, in the hopes that this is the expansion where we get to be average(or even slightly above). And every expansion I have been sorely dissapointed and felt compelled to change to either Resto or a completely different class(I never really liked melee in dungeons/raids, so Enhancement is off the table for me). And I'm by no means a hardcore raider or PvP'er, I kinda just dislike feeling like a complete burden to my team(or having to work twice as hard as anyone else, to get the same result).

This expansion is the same. And jaded by history, I'm painfully aware and afraid that Blizz might just ignore us again, until much later in the expansion cycle... So it's back to Boomkin for me. Sadly. But good news; Boomkin is freakin' amazing - it is everything Elemental isn't: It packs a punch, it can sustain damage, it's versatile and adaptable, it's nimble when needed, it has lots of survivabilty tools. Overall it feels a lot more modern, where Elemental feels like something from TBC with a LOT less utility, than back then.

[Deleted]

Same story here. Every single expansion since WotlK I have been starting out as Elemental, in the hopes that this is the expansion where we get to be average(or even slightly above). And every expansion I have been sorely dissapointed and felt compelled to change to either Resto or a completely different class(I never really liked melee in dungeons/raids, so Enhancement is off the table for me). And I'm by no means a hardcore raider or PvP'er, I kinda just dislike feeling like a complete burden to my team(or having to work twice as hard as anyone else, to get the same result).

This expansion is the same. And jaded by history, I'm painfully aware and afraid that Blizz might just ignore us again, until much later in the expansion cycle... So it's back to Boomkin for me. Sadly. But good news; Boomkin is freakin' amazing - it is everything Elemental isn't: It packs a punch, it can sustain damage, it's versatile and adaptable, it's nimble when needed, it has lots of survivabilty tools. Overall it feels a lot more modern, where Elemental feels like something from TBC with a LOT less utility, than back then.

While I agree that boomkin is slightly better designed than elemental shaman, I don't see "lots of survivability tools". Only a 20%DR every minute and bear form. But even with 200% bonus armor the damage reduction is actually surprisingly low (you need guardian affinity to even pretend to be a real bear tank). I see bommkins getting sliced like cheese through their armor and they cannot easily insta burst like elemental shaman since they cannot spam starsurge with procs and need to cast before using starsurge or 3 second cast of full moon.

[Deleted]

I had main ele shaman for almost 5 years and i really enjoyed it in late Cata and basically whole MoP.
Then in WoD with removal of LB on move, rework of mastery etc. was just horrible. The unfun of Ele I found as main reason i un-sub for more than year. When i was getting back to game 6 weeks ago, I really tried to enjoy Ele but i just cant. 0 mobility, even after removing SWG (just why?? I dont get it). I really had high hopes for Legion, but the pre-patch and Beta just convinced me to reroll to Rogue. I dont know how to fix Elemental, because Blizzard just wont ever do it.

[Nyel]

One thing is important:

With every CD active Ele Shaman is a monster - Ascendence + Primal Fire Elemental + Elemental Mastery = Incredible damage. But besides that... the problems become obvious.

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While I agree that boomkin is slightly better designed than elemental shaman, I don't see "lots of survivability tools". Only a 20%DR every minute and bear form. But even with 200% bonus armor the damage reduction is actually surprisingly low (you need guardian affinity to even pretend to be a real bear tank). I see bommkins getting sliced like cheese through their armor and they cannot easily insta burst like elemental shaman since they cannot spam starsurge with procs and need to cast before using starsurge or 3 second cast of full moon.

Moonkin's are not that bound to standing still. 2 DoTs + Instant Starsurge / Starfall + Fury (instant cast in the Moonkin form every 5-10 seconds) - and when they need to stand still they have things like Full Moon obliterating literally everything it hits.

When Ele Shaman needs to cast low DPS LBs the problems start, right?

[Kornum]

While I agree that boomkin is slightly better designed than elemental shaman, I don't see "lots of survivability tools". Only a 20%DR every minute and bear form. But even with 200% bonus armor the damage reduction is actually surprisingly low (you need guardian affinity to even pretend to be a real bear tank). I see bommkins getting sliced like cheese through their armor and they cannot easily insta burst like elemental shaman since they cannot spam starsurge with procs and need to cast before using starsurge or 3 second cast of full moon.

My Elemental and Boomkin is about the same ilvl(around 835). My Elemental has 32% physical damage reduction, where my Boomkin has 44%... and I'm not factoring in the guardian affinty, which adds another 10% DR to ALL dmg. So I don't think im factually wrong here. And moreover, my boomkin feels a LOT more tanky while questing. Add on top of that, as mentioned, you can go with another 10% DR from Guardian affinity or go with Resto affinity to get Ysera's gift, swiftmend and rejuvenation. In all honesty, they feels miles apart when questing or doing dungeons and the adaptability is not even comparable(you can also spec into Feral to get +15% movement speed).

With regards to actual DR CDs; Boomkin has Barkskin with a 20% DR for 12 secs on a 1 minute CD(which can be used while stunned), where my Elemental has Astral shift with a 40% DR for 8 secs on a 1½ minute CD. Overall on a 6 minute fight, Boomkin has 20% DR 6 times of 12 secs, while Elemental has 40% DR 4 times of 8 secs. Depending on the situation, 9 times out of 10, I would prefer Barkskin(and if more is needed you have to factor in the passive 10% from Guardian affinity).

Regarding instaburst on movement: Are you for trolling? Boomkins have 2 talents, that give you instacasts, they have 15% chance when being hit to get an instacast, they have sunfire and moonfire, which GRANTS you resources(unlike Flame/Frost shock that costs resources), which then again lead to Starsurges. Honestly I think youre trolling, but I'm not sure.

[gambit998]

Firstly, I would like to say that I think imporving our Mastery is not the way to go. That will just change our stat priority. What we need is damage increase and increased either mobility or survivability.

In Practice that makes Sense, but there is one snag, Our LB and Lvb hitting for nothing is directly related to our Mastery. they seemed to have calculated as if we have 100 percent copy chance when we cast a spell, something no one will have. Not enough copies means less damage. Our LB hits for 50k and 75 percent of that 50k (37500) adding those two together for the LB damage even tho it is from 2 sources makes out LB actually hit for 87500 without a crit. Which granted is good but as i stated we dont have 100 percent mastery and too boot our mastery doesnt scale the damage of our spells like most casters. (this is directly where our damage is sitting but since blizzard has forced us to not want mastery and favor Crit and haste our damage numbers will be horrid as the current problem is.)