Brexit: Petition for second EU referendum rejected

[Deleted]

Like the UK does with 27 other countries?

Are you saying once a country joins the EU they shouldn't have the right to leave ever despite the will of the people?

[Kalis]

That's my favourite part. Delay until every other EU country switches to dictatorship.

From what Herman Van Rumpypumpy said, Article 50 would be invoked before then, with the low level stuff dealt with first, then the serious business done after the German elections.

[Deleted]

Your right. Dishonest and arrogant is more an English trait.

How is this helpful? This just reinforces the suggestion that some people can't converse maturity

[Kalis]

Your right. Dishonest and arrogant is more an English trait.

Someone said earlier that if Westminster didn't give the Scots another referendum on independence, then your lot might moan.

They didn't clarify how we would notice any difference.

[Deleted]

Are you saying once a country joins the EU they shouldn't have the right to leave ever despite the will of the people?

Course not. They should be abel to leave if they decide they want to. But you're saying the scots can't keep the UK in limbo with their indecision. To that I say the UK shouldn't be allowed then to keep the whole EU in limbo with their indecision.

[Deleted]

Perhaps we could just stick to facts rather than theory-crafting?

FACTS:
People voted BREXIT
We're told Article 50 will/should be invoked during 2017

Everything else is just pointless theories.

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Or it will happen in 2017

What's the point in inventing scenarios which a % of people regarding BREXIT do. It's like people magically become clairvoyants

May SAID Brexit isnt happening without Scotland.

so... I guess we're stuck.

[Deleted]

Course not. They should be abel to leave if they decide they want to. But you're saying the scots can't keep the UK in limbo with their indecision. To that I say the UK shouldn't be allowed then to keep the whole EU in limbo with their indecision.

What indecision? We're leaving. UK have been setting up various trade talks with other nations regarding Brexit for months. We're told we're invoking it in 2017. That's the opposite of indecision

[Kalis]

Course not. They should be abel to leave if they decide they want to. But you're saying the scots can't keep the UK in limbo with their indecision. To that I say the UK shouldn't be allowed then to keep the whole EU in limbo with their indecision.

I don't think either the Scots, or the UK as a whole, are being indecisive, they are just preparing the groundwork for negotiations, which takes time. This isn't something they should rush in to, even the French and Germans seem to want a delay of sorts for their elections.

[Deleted]

May SAID Brexit isnt happening without Scotland.

so... I guess we're stuck.

Actually she said "We won't leave until we've explored every option with Scotland" that option may very well be a second independence referendum

[Kalis]

May SAID Brexit isnt happening without Scotland.

so... I guess we're stuck.

And what evidence have you provided that they are at an impasse? None.

May wants to know what Scotland wants before entering negotiations, which is understandable, she will also want to know what England, Wales and Northern Ireland want, that is her job.

[Deleted]

From the article you linked as evidence...

"Britain could remain in the EU until late 2019, almost a year later than predicted, ministers have privately warned senior figures in the City of London.

Theresa May has been expected to enact article 50 in January, setting in train the formal two years of negotiations before Brexit."

"French and German elections are also being cited as a cause for delay. Britain might not invoke article 50 until France has voted next May or even until after the German poll in September, ministers confided to senior City contacts." They are talking about May/September 2017 there.

You literally didn't understand your own source material, you mixed up when article 50 is due to be invoked with the date that the UK formally leaves the EU, i.e. two years later.



I would guess none, as I don't drink coffee.

I quoted the article in full. God the dishonesty.

[Deleted]

What indecision? We're leaving. UK have been setting up various trade talks with other nations regarding Brexit for months. We're told we're invoking it in 2017. That's the opposite of indecision

Okay, that's fair, but then what was this?

Scotland can stamp their foot till 5065, eventually they will either accept certain terms or leave. A country holding two other countries ransom over a democratic vote won't end well

[Kalis]

I quoted the article in full. God the dishonesty.

The rest of the article didn't back your claims either, it backed mine. You are free to quote the parts you think support your claim, good luck with that.

Alternatively quote all of it and I will point out where you were wrong again. You misunderstood what the 2019 date referred to, the penny will eventually drop.

[Deleted]

Okay, that's fair, but then what was this?

I'm saying Scotland will either accept terms they favour or leave. No sensible country will deliberately dig their heels out of stubbornness because it's political suicide

[Deleted]

I'm saying Scotland will either accept terms they favour or leave. No sensible country will deliberately dig their heels out of stubbornness because it's political suicide

But they can have 6 months, a year to come to favourable terms with May, can't they? Or for them it's now or never?

[Deleted]

The rest of the article didn't back your claims either, it backed mine. You are free to quote the parts you think support your claim, good luck with that.

Alternatively quote all of it and I will point out where you were wrong again. You misunderstood what the 2019 date referred to, the penny will eventually drop.

Enjoy

Britain could remain in the EU until late 2019, almost a year later than predicted, ministers have privately warned senior figures in the City of London.

Theresa May has been expected to enact article 50 in January, setting in train the formal two years of negotiations before Brexit.

Despite great political pressure to stick to that timetable, she may be forced to delay because her new Brexit and international trade departments will not be ready, City sources said.

French and German elections are also being cited as a cause for delay. Britain might not invoke article 50 until France has voted next May or even until after the German poll in September, ministers confided to senior City contacts.

“You can’t negotiate when you don’t know who you’re negotiating with,” said a City insider. And a cabinet minister confirmed to The Sunday Times that there were “some challenges” in the French and German electoral timetables.

The prospect of a year’s delay will anger hardline Eurosceptic Conservative MPs and “leave” voters who expected a speedy Brexit.

Nigel Farage, the former leader of Ukip, warned that failure to deliver on the EU referendum result and curb immigration could lead to mass demonstrations on the streets.

There was a “real danger” that millions of people who voted for the first time in the EU referendum would be tempted to join extremists such as the English Defence League if they felt ignored, Farage said.

David Davis, the Brexit secretary, and Liam Fox, the international trade secretary, indicated after May appointed them that they expected Britain to leave at the start of 2019.

However, their new Whitehall departments are being set up from scratch and the situation is “chaotic”, said one senior City source who has spoken to ministers.

“Ministers are now thinking the [article 50] trigger could be delayed to autumn 2017,” said another source, who had discussions with two senior ministers. “They don’t have the infrastructure for the people they need to hire. They say they don’t even know the right questions to ask when they finally begin bargaining with Europe.”

A cabinet source said Davis and Fox might not be able to make much progress before France, in particular, goes to the polls. “Liam and David have talked through these issues and are very aware of the sensitivities,” the source added.

“So it could be that little progress is made to start with and then you start to see [it at] a pace after that.”

Another senior government insider said there was uncertainty about preparatory talks with EU leaders, in which Britain would try to reach understandings on key issues before triggering article 50.

“I’m not sure they are going to be ready,” the source said. “There is an issue about these preliminary talks. No one even seems to know what the substance will be.”

Davis and Fox are spending the summer recess setting up their new fiefdoms. Davis has so far recruited less than half the 250 staff he expects to need. Fox is looking to recruit up to 1,000 trade policy experts but *currently has fewer than 100. His team is temporarily housed in the business department.

Fox has written to Boris Johnson, the foreign secretary, claiming trade with other countries will not “flourish” if responsibility for future policy remains with Johnson’s department. He is also seeking legal advice on his department’s precise room for manoeuvre. It can hold discussions with potential trade partners outside the EU but is barred from formal negotiations with them before Brexit.

A No 10 spokesman said: “The prime minister has been clear that a top priority for this government is to deliver the decision of the British people to leave the EU and to make a success of Brexit. The PM has set out the government’s position on article 50 and has established a new department dedicated to taking forward the negotiations.”

Let's see you showing me how this article backs your claim.

[Deleted]

But they can have 6 months, a year to come to favourable terms with May, can't they? Or for them it's now or never?

They can have 2 years for all I care, but the original argument suggested Brexit won't happen because we're waiting till Scotland which is silly. Yeah we're allowing Scotland to be part of the decisions but neither Scotland or England expect that timespan to be limitless. Scotland will likely make a decision by 2017 and Article 50 will invoke

[Mayhem]

Not important enough to include in the referendum question though.

What referendum question?

That is nice for Farage. Are you going to state outright that issues with the Europe don't go back decades? You may be onto a loser if you do.

No, why should i state that? Are you going to tell me that people didn´t vote leave because of what the leave campaign plastered on the side of their buses?

[Kiri]

Scotland can stamp their foot till 5065, eventually they will either accept certain terms or leave. A country holding two other countries ransom over a democratic vote won't end well

But according to the people in this thread, Scotland won't be allowed another 'leave' vote for X time, so they have to dig their heels to make the decision they want, if they want it, according to the prevalent rationale.

[Deleted]

But according to the people in this thread, Scotland won't be allowed another 'leave' vote for X time, so they have to dig their heels to make the decision they want, if they want it, according to the prevalent rationale.

Sturgeon said another referendum is "highly likely" if conditioned aren't met.