I appreciate those that want to PVP, but come on...

[Jewsco]

- You get a warning before you are flagged
- You don't have to go into or through PvP zones to reach quest targets
- PvE WQ rewards are almost always better than PvP WQ rewards
- You remain flagged for only 5 minutes
- You have access to a plethora of tools to remove yourself from potential danger, such as 2-3 hearthstones on different cooldowns and flightmaster's whistle on a 5m cooldown

Seriously how much more do you want? This is such a non-issue. I haven't even seen an enemy player in a PvP zone yet, even while doing PvP world quests. People will really complain about anything...

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Yeah, I've wandered into these zones before while exploring for quests. And guess what? Once I got the warning, I stepped 2 inches backwards to avoid getting flagged, and then walked a different way.

You don't HAVE to walk into these areas. If you CHOOSE to do so, you do so at YOUR OWN risk.

Yeah now it is known but the first time I wandered in one of the zones trying to find a quest I was like I have pvp turned off so no big deal and boom I was flagged and of course there was a flagged higher level toon just waiting for the kill. Heck I also have been flagged multiple times while one a flight master and that isn't by choice and again when I landed there is a ganker just waiting for the kill. So one can be flagged unknowingly very easily.

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Who FORCES you to go do the pvp WQs? No one, oh then, there is no issue here.

That I agree is a choice but sometimes the reward is very tempting but at least it is a choice to enter that area or not but while leveling it isn't a choice as those areas are not marked and quests can take you very near them or dig sites are in them force flagging a player.

[Underverse]

Yeah now it is known but the first time I wandered in one of the zones trying to find a quest I was like I have pvp turned off so no big deal and boom I was flagged and of course there was a flagged higher level toon just waiting for the kill. Heck I also have been flagged multiple times while one a flight master and that isn't by choice and again when I landed there is a ganker just waiting for the kill. So one can be flagged unknowingly very easily.

Again, you get a pretty lengthy warning before you're flagged - a sound and a visual effect. If you miss these, that's on you.

Being flagged from flying through a PvP zone - if this actually happens (which I have not witnessed) then yes, I agree that this oversight should be fixed.

[Gambit5555]

I was only replying on the idiotic statement made... "Character progression and questing do not take place in these areas". Wich is not true. I also said i don't mind these myself, but i don't like it when people lie.

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They're not forced tho :P They can do BGs as you allready said and world quests. So pls stop argue like a goat.

But for them to get the maximum ap, which is so important right now, they would have to run the dungeons that have world quest. According to your argument, that is being forced. So pls stop argue like a goat

[Hexxidecimal]

If one is made to do something they don't want to do in call that forced. You can try to use other words but in the end a player on a pve server with pvp turned off can be and is forced into pvp this expansion. Can it be avoided? Yes but harder to do so while leveling when the forced pvp zones are not marked on the map.
Also by not doing it one is getting less artifact power(which at least is a choice to do or not), missing out on archeology digs, not completing their profession quests and missing patterns as one npc in the sewers sells all the belt patterns and finally not getting thier oblivium forge not such a big deal for a main but clearly a huge catch up mechanic for an alt. If leaving all those things behind then yes it isn't forced.

It honestly doesn't matter one iota what someone is missing out on. Not one bit. It's NOT fucking forced. You can say you are being punished for not doing it. But you aren't forced. Period.

I am not even going to bother arguing the other points. I will say this though. I haven't PvPed. Not once since starting legion. Item level is sitting at 835 (could be 840 but I use lower ilvl gear that is stat'ed better for me). And have 19 traits. I regularly go down into the sewers and am sitting a 5k of 20k sightless eyes (started doing this on monday because I realized I could get a mount out of it). I have not PvPed with anyone down there. Not once.

I am NOT saying I wasn't encourged. I am not saying that Blizz doesn't steer us towards PvP. What I am saying is I have been playing the game same as many and not once have I been "forced" into it. I never lost control of my character, I was never flagged without a warning first letting me know it would happen (aside form the flight point), I was never even forced into PvP to access content I couldn't get else where or was given a mechanic to avoid it.

I felt occasionally that maybe I wanted something from a PvP quest. Perhaps a title or AP reward that I didn't get cause I didn't want to PvP. So I was encouraged to PvP for that reward but I was never forced. Nor were you. But ALL those things you listed, I have. Obliterum forge, the patterns, archaeology. All things I have done. Maybe, in some cases I could have done a few of them faster were I willing to go PvP. That situation is what we call "encouraged" to do something. But I was certainly not barred completely from those activities.

[kail]

Bottom line is you are not forced to do any PvP WQs any more than you are forced to run BGs or arena skirmishes (all of which award AP and other knick-knacks). If you really wanted to progress that badly, you would be running endless heroics to keel the flow of AP going.

[Varitok]

Unless you're aiming for world/server firsts it's really not needed, a few AP items is really not going to be what holds you back.

That doesn't matter, it affects character progression, period. Can you people stop moving the goalposts?

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Bottom line is you are not forced to do any PvP WQs any more than you are forced to run BGs or arena skirmishes (all of which award AP and other knick-knacks). If you really wanted to progress that badly, you would be running endless heroics to keel the flow of AP going.

Hmmm 3 minutes for 500 ap or 20-30 minutes for 500, seems like a hard choice. Artifacts were a mistake, regardless of anything its just causing arguments and the grind is tedious.

[kail]

Hmmm 3 minutes for 500 ap or 20-30 minutes for 500, seems like a hard choice. Artifacts were a mistake, regardless of anything its just causing arguments and the grind is tedious.

OK? That 3 minutes is for those that don't mind or enjoy PvP. Doing BGs also awards AP, but no one is forced to do them for the sake of progression. Whether you are into PvE, PvP or both, you have your options to progress. Or should PvP simply not award anything?

[fratpartybro]

Can you all stop replying to these basement dwelling beta cry babies? They are just looking for something to cry about. They don't understand in life that once in a while you gotta suck it up and do shit if you want something. You don't want that 200 AP in PVP zone then don't do it. Do a heroic instead. Stop wanting all your welfare given to you.

[Hexxidecimal]

That doesn't matter, it affects character progression, period. Can you people stop moving the goalposts?

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No it doesn't. Go do actual PvE content that actually gives you MORE AP. They are called dungeons. Why in the hell would you look at what is OBVIOUSLY PvP content and go "but I want the rewards for that wahhhh". It's not for fucking you. It's for PvPers and people who don't mind doing some PvP. Not all rewards are gonna be there for you, get over it. Better yet, go do the obviously PvE based content of dungeons that have vastly superior AP gains.

Hmmm 3 minutes for 500 ap or 20-30 minutes for 500, seems like a hard choice. Artifacts were a mistake, regardless of anything its just causing arguments and the grind is tedious.

Hrm lets see, content created for PvPers and PvErs ignoring the 5 other AP quests on the board made specifically for them but bitch because they want what was developed for the PvPers too.

Also it takes you 20-30 mintues? ALSO why is it only 3 minutes? Are you...not PvPing? Cause if you aren't PvPing then you are just bitching about being flagged. If you are PvPing it'll take longer than 3 minutes won't it?

Also they aren't 500AP. Like 200 - 240. Mayyyybe 300 99% of the time.

[IIamaKing]

That I agree is a choice but sometimes the reward is very tempting but at least it is a choice to enter that area or not but while leveling it isn't a choice as those areas are not marked and quests can take you very near them or dig sites are in them force flagging a player.

Thats a fair point.

[Bathory]

No pvp doesn't automatically happen on pve servers. Now it can but it should be a choice what is so hard for you to get.

I didn't say it happens automatically, I said it's going to happen whether you like it or not. It's really not that difficult to realize "hey this is a pvp area, I shouldn't stay in here for that long". I'm not saying ganking doesn't happen, I'm saying there are just as many options to avoid being ganked.

And if you're aware of the flagging traps people pulling, why are you still falling for them? And if you aren't, then why are you still talking about them? Like I said, ganking happens, take it into account if you don't like to pvp.


It seems you're letting this conversation get on top of you, as you just quoted and replied to the same post of mine twice. If this is a reflection of your playstyle, it's no wonder you're finding yourself in these adverse situations time and time again.

[Hexxidecimal]

Thats a fair point.

Except you get a giant talking head warning you if you stay there you'll get flagged. So yeah...Also dig sites changed and if the best argument for "forced" PvP is a secondary profession were all you have to do is wait till the dig site moves...well it's a pretty weak argument.

[Fang7986]

Actually after 16 days it would be around 700ap. Right now we are 8 days in and at 100% increase. Next one is another 100% I think, next one 150%? So 16 days would be 450% increase. Instead of 360ap it would be 675. So one wq now is worth around 20% in 16 days. 5 days of work now is only worth 1 day in 16days. After another 16days, another 20% so your original 5 days of work is worth 0.4% days in 32 days.

So anytime in the expansion as long as you do research but don't even collect any AP, you can catch up to anyone in a month.
And here we are talking about ~4 wqs a day. That's worth less than 5% of days AP? It's not something you would even count. You won't even be behind by a full trait before you make it up. I call that very fast.

if someone is going to argue that it's vital they don't skip every world quest, they are probably the type of person who uses a bottle at the desk instead of walking to the bathroom cause it's vital they don't miss any play time. It's best to just ignore them

[shaunika123]

an RHC is roughly the same AP as those quests
you barely lose any progression

those that play all sides of the game should progress faster than those who only progress one tbh and it's a very VERY VERY slight difference if you just do an RHC instead

you people have been so spoiled by recent expansions' complete lack of world pvp that now there's some incentive to do it you lose your shit, it's great that you can now pvp outside instanced areas, getting your butthole raped by a bunch of players from the opposing faction and vica versa is a an essential part of an MMO rpg

[clevin]

The Hunter Class Hall is in High Mountain, which I also ran into, but it gave me a warning to leave before that happened. The Druid Class Hall will do the same, which is located in Val'Sharah.

Yeah, now that I know it, it's OK. I just assumed all the halls were instanced and couldnt actually be reached by other classes.

[IIamaKing]

Except you get a giant talking head warning you if you stay there you'll get flagged. So yeah...Also dig sites changed and if the best argument for "forced" PvP is a secondary profession were all you have to do is wait till the dig site moves...well it's a pretty weak argument.

Any PvP in the open world on a PvE server should be optional. Not a result of wanting to grind arch or do some leveling.

[clevin]

I didn't say it happens automatically, I said it's going to happen whether you like it or not. It's really not that difficult to realize "hey this is a pvp area, I shouldn't stay in here for that long". I'm not saying ganking doesn't happen, I'm saying there are just as many options to avoid being ganked.

And if you're aware of the flagging traps people pulling, why are you still falling for them? And if you aren't, then why are you still talking about them? Like I said, ganking happens, take it into account if you don't like to pvp.


It seems you're letting this conversation get on top of you, as you just quoted and replied to the same post of mine twice. If this is a reflection of your playstyle, it's no wonder you're finding yourself in these adverse situations time and time again.

But... WHY should open world areas be PVP enabled AT ALL on a PVE server? The entire point of rolling on a PVE server is so I don't have to deal with gankers, etc.

[DarthMonk79]

I for one hate pvp, but those world quests ones are stupid easy. Rarely have I bumped into the opposing faction at them. I just kill my handful of guards, run up the tower and kill the queensquard and whistle off the tower to nearest FP, I then take said FP to the next one that's closests to a world quest and tada, not marked anymore. I haven't died, get gold, resources, AP and of course rep for whatever the reward/faction was and get honor points towards my honor tree. Its stupid simple and unless you're on a server where the horde/alliance sit at those waiting for the enemy then you have nothing to fear or really complain about.

[Bathory]

But... WHY should open world areas be PVP enabled AT ALL on a PVE server? The entire point of rolling on a PVE server is so I don't have to deal with gankers, etc.

Because people like me, who like being on a PVE server but with a bit of PVP from time to time, need somewhere to play. This is the middle ground for both of us. When I WANT PVP, I go to the area. When you DON'T want PVP, you stay out of that area. If you're THAT passionate about not wanting to pvp, which is fair, why don't you just NOT go there? Yes there are rewards, but those rewards require PVP and are aimed at pvp content.

[Hexxidecimal]

Any PvP in the open world on a PvE server should be optional. Not a result of wanting to grind arch or do some leveling.

It is optional. It's called don't wander into the PvP zone. I leveled juuuust fine with never wandering into PvP zone because I had a big talking head that told me DON'T GO IN THERE. So, I didn't. If a Arch is in a PvP zone I don't do it till it moves. People are given a lot of warning.

The problem here is that there are legitimate concerns that I agree with. Flight Paths shouldn't flag you. PvP areas SHOULD be clearly marked on the map. I am even down with the idea that Archaeology should not spawn dig sites in PvP zones. But over reacting and spouting literally just false bull shit such as "It's forced" is not productive.

There are REAL concerns here than can and should be addressed. Not among them is PvErs getting rewards for PvP quest. Do like me, fuck off and go do content INTENDED for us and quite bitching about Blizzard offering PvPers their own rewards.