No balancing before raids

[Thagrynor]

I am a warlock...

I am my guild's leader...

I have no choice but to come to raid this week...

I have warned them...they are alright with it.

It's gonna be a bloodbath.

At least since you are guild and raid leader, being a Warlock with horrible damage won't be as big a hinderance. Heck, on several fights, it usually feels like it doesn't matter if I DPS or not. That gives you time to watch others and see where they could improve! lol .... But yeah, on a serious note, I feel your pain.

[Tenant]

I have few memories across wow-since-vanilla of a class being in such a woeful state. Only one spec is halfway competent and that's destruction.

Lay off with that, this is the exact same nonsense and substance-less discussion all classes create for themselves every time. It's all the same back-and-forth; this thread has no value.

[Deleted]

Every time I've played an underpowered class I just look at it as weight training. It means I have to work harder than other people and so I'll learn to work harder and then when they finally balance me I'll excel.

I used to PvP as Prot in vanilla. You didn't do that. It was a worthless PvP spec in vanilla. But every expansion they gave prot warriors a little more and a little more and suddenly Prot was viable and I had years of practice with an anchor tied to me. It was silly how badly I was beating people.

So just lift your weights and when they do balance us you'll excel beyond those who didn't play when the class was UP (and that applies to both PvP and PvE).

Quite frankly one of the most stupid things I've read in a long time

[Deleted]

Numbers change. Tuning changes. And Beta characters with raid-equivalent gear (850) and maxed-out Artifacts are not the same as Live characters with entry gear (840) and half-unlocked Artifacts.

Since you are fond of metaphors, let me clarify mine: You expect Blizzard to make the same sandwich they have always made when the ingredients have completely changed.

I don't think the ingredients ever change so much. Players mostly whine about their dps in given content. Ideal dps is testable by bots. One thing changes, how much your character has to run, no matter what makes you run. Some specs are better at movement, but the basic damage while standing alone shouldn't be that hard to balance, that some specs end up doing 3 times more dmg than others, unless they come up with stupid class mechanics that can be exploited in unexpected ways.

[Deleted]

Really? The other forums aren;t like that. The other classes didn; tmake such a shitstorm they specifically got a slot in the Q&A

Even the devs admit they got it wrong, not least because warlocks are so weak in the areas that make a class desirable and fun in current content

Affliction is a one-trick pony, sink all your talents into AOE and do Mythics and be great on trash.

[Gaidax]

Really? The other forums aren;t like that. The other classes didn; tmake such a shitstorm they specifically got a slot in the Q&A

Even the devs admit they got it wrong, not least because warlocks are so weak in the areas that make a class desirable and fun in current content

Affliction is a one-trick pony, sink all your talents into AOE and do Mythics and be great on trash.

That's their problem, Shadow Priests, Paladins, Eles - all those are shit tier lower than Warlocks. Like Shadow Priest is literally Demo, only even worse as in Demo can at least burst AoE and don't have to kill himself as the only viable way to do damage. Paladins are pretty weak melee DPS without the burst AoE perk their peers got and thus trash in comparison.

They could raise hell as well no problem. Heck some of the specs of the "better" classes are pretty shit - think Survival and Frost, for example.

We just whine the best, it's our specialty, I think we even overtook mages in that regard.

[RedNight at MMOC]

Because we had this thing called beta testing?

If you will not even bother reading my other posts in this thread, then I will not even bother explaining why this statement is inaccurate (because I have already done so).

[Nadiru]

Numbers change. Tuning changes. And Beta characters with raid-equivalent gear (850) and maxed-out Artifacts are not the same as Live characters with entry gear (840) and half-unlocked Artifacts.

Since you are fond of metaphors, let me clarify mine: You expect Blizzard to make the same sandwich they have always made when the ingredients have completely changed.

I expect Blizzard, the sandwich cook whom is being paid millions of dollars per month, to do better than giving half the playerbase crappy sandwiches.

[Baconeggcheese]

@Gaidax spriests are actually like top tier sustained mult-target right now, they just have no aoe. Its basically what aff should be right now.

[Deleted]

That's their problem, Shadow Priests, Paladins, Eles - all those are shit tier lower than Warlocks. Like Shadow Priest is literally Demo, only even worse as in Demo can at least burst AoE and don't have to kill himself as the only viable way to do damage. Paladins are pretty weak melee DPS without the burst AoE perk their peers got and thus trash in comparison.

They could raise hell as well no problem. Heck some of the specs of the "better" classes are pretty shit - think Survival and Frost, for example.

We just whine the best, it's our specialty, I think we even overtook mages in that regard.

Please dont comment anymore, if you really think that shadow priests are in bad shape right now.

[Deleted]

shadow Priests aren't perfect, but there's nowhere near the amounts of complaints of the BattleNet forums as there are about locks.

Look, it's not just coincidental or some weird conspiracy by a secluded cabal that is causing the lock forums and Q&A to receive massive number sof complaints. Warlocks, as a class, are evidently much unhappier than almost any other - the closest being ret paladins who are also justifiably unhappy (but happier with some change spencille dinto 7.1)

Also worth noting that rets and priests are hybrids. I would guess that people who chose them were possibly notlooking to do nothing but dpos, and they do have alternatives (and highly sought after ones, too). A warlock is a pure dps, if we don;t do that well, there's nothing else.

[Deleted]

That's their problem, Shadow Priests, Paladins, Eles - all those are shit tier lower than Warlocks. Like Shadow Priest is literally Demo, only even worse as in Demo can at least burst AoE and don't have to kill himself as the only viable way to do damage. Paladins are pretty weak melee DPS without the burst AoE perk their peers got and thus trash in comparison.

They could raise hell as well no problem. Heck some of the specs of the "better" classes are pretty shit - think Survival and Frost, for example.

We just whine the best, it's our specialty, I think we even overtook mages in that regard.

I'm starting to see fire mages claiming their burst AOE sucks so who knows, its a real competition now

- - - Updated - - -

Please dont comment anymore, if you really think that shadow priests are in bad shape right now.

They have more issues than warlocks for sure, that is if you even care about anything else than warlocks. Getting real tired of this senseless complaining that you are the worst class, its insulting for actually weaker specs. At least you have destruction which is performing well enough, unless you feel warlocks are entitled to be top 1 dps?

[GT4]

Please dont comment anymore, if you really think that shadow priests are in bad shape right now.

They're (probably - we haven't seen any level 110 raids with the current version of the game) good in raids. They're terrible at everything else in the game.

[Gaidax]

Please dont comment anymore, if you really think that shadow priests are in bad shape right now.

Well I was about to comment, but I think the two guys above me covered it nicely.

[Deleted]

lock movement is a non issue, the issue is YOU as a player needing to learn the fight and position yourself better.

Casuals...locks have issues but none of which are being mentioned here. Demo/Destro both do great in most situations, you are a caster DPS you do not need to run on top of the boss to do damage. there never has and never will be a fight that requires you to run for 5000 miles like some of you are suggesting.

All raid bosses happen within a closed distance. get over it already.

[RedNight at MMOC]

I expect Blizzard, the sandwich cook whom is being paid millions of dollars per month, to do better than giving half the playerbase crappy sandwiches.

"Half the playerbase" is such a wild and ridiculous claim when the only uniform outcry I have heard and seen comes from Warlock players.

[Nadiru]

"Half the playerbase" is such a wild and ridiculous claim when the only uniform outcry I have heard and seen comes from Warlock players.

Shadow Priests and Survival Hunters, Frost DKs, Arcane Mages. I'll concede that it's not half the playerbase, but it's hardly "only Warlocks" that have balance problems.

[Draxtor]

I guess it is easy to type that without using a brain. Let me try...

You are wrong, and bad, and I am right, and good!

Wow, that was easy!

Wow that's a really solid argument backed up with facts and evidence, well done man.

If you would recall the so called "beta testing" raids were open for a very limited time and when they were you had crap like lvl 100-109 people artificially boosted, ilvls scaled/capped or reduced (which made Orb of Voidsight super op as it scaled up to 835 for example) artifacts sometimes were fully unlocked and sometimes were not and finally people had no bloody idea wtf they are doing - I remember wiping on Anomaly normal for hours just because people did not switch to bloody add - the amazing super advanced thing to do in raid. You basically could say that first 3-4 guys topping meter knew wtf they were doing, while the rest were just derping around.

You want Blizzard to balance on THAT? The purpose was not balance fine-tuning, the purpose of that raid test was to see shit is not frikkin' broken - as in encounters even work.

This is what the dude is trying to say, don't see how it's difficult to not understand, unless you were not a beta tester or were frikkin' blind.

So let me recap. People were scaled up, this is apparently a bad thing?(Even though every single dungeon in Legion does this successfully, and have heard no complaints) Artifacts were not randomly maxed or not. They were maxed for Nighthold, and not at all for any difficulty of Emerald Nightmare. Orb of Voidsight was not super OP, as ilvl was normalized and you can see in the multiple logs available that this trinket was not OP. And because you did raid testing with pugs rather than a coordinated guild, that somehow negates the numbers coming from all of beta testers.

Oh and your first statement of raid testing being open for a "very limited time" is just flat out wrong. My guild and I have been literally raid testing since January, so I'm not sure where you're getting your information from.

[RedNight at MMOC]

Shadow Priests and Survival Hunters, Frost DKs, Arcane Mages. I'll concede that it's not half the playerbase, but it's hardly "only Warlocks" that have balance problems.

Shadow Priests? I am running Mythic Dungeons with two of them from my guild who are just fine, even competing with my over-tuned Demon Hunter DPS. Survival Hunters? How many are there even? Three a server??? Frost Death Knights? I have yet to see a single Death Knight, Frost or otherwise, complain. Arcane Mages? Almost every Mage is Fire right now, and if not they are Frosty for leveling or PvP.

Wow that's a really solid argument backed up with facts and evidence, well done man.

Remember this?

You clearly don't understand, considering your original statement was just flat out wrong.

Hmm... No facts and no evidence... Hmm...

[wholol]

We just whine the best, it's our specialty, I think we even overtook mages in that regard.

Made me chuckle