Why blizzard nerfed TANKS AOE damage when its the lazy dps fault

[I Push Buttons]

So long as you realize that this won't necessarily mean you can pull 4 groups of mobs, the tank with the highest damage will be taking agro of all bar taunted mobs, and when it's M+ you won't be able to handle that (I assume).

Someone should try a five prot paladin group.

Five paladins with 6/3 consecrated in flame (10 different consecrations at once boyyyyy).
Five paladins with hand of the protector.
Five paladins with last defender (at 23 targets they would all have a baseline 50% damage reduction/damage increase passively).

I feel like that shit would work so long as whoever had threat never got one shotted during the mass pulls since he could just instantly go back up with several different hands of the protector hitting him over and over with its short CD.

[Drutt]

A blanket damage nerf seems rather silly to me.

Some of the tanks definitely need a damage nerf. My Vengeance DH is absolutely ludicrous on AOE, and even the single target damage is high. DKs and Guardians are similarly high.

Other tanks didn't seem to need any nerfs. Prot Warrior and Brewmaster don't seem to deserve a 10% damage nerf for sure. If anything I think Prot Warrior might need buffs, it's so far behind the other tanks.

Haven't seen Prot Pally so I can't comment firsthand, but I've heard their damage output is good.

[Hermitxd]

I will try this, I will record this. It will be...glorious.

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Someone should try a five prot paladin group.

Five paladins with 6/3 consecrated in flame (10 different consecrations at once boyyyyy).
Five paladins with hand of the protector.
Five paladins with last defender (at 23 targets they would all have a baseline 50% damage reduction/damage increase passively).

I feel like that shit would work so long as whoever had threat never got one shotted during the mass pulls since he could just instantly go back up with several different hands of the protector hitting him over and over with its short CD.

I will try this, and I will record it.

[Aparicio]

Funny how I see here the same mentality of the 1 percenters that think that if you are not a millionaire like them it's because you're lazy or dumber.
If you need to tell others how better you are than them then you probably are worse in many more ways elsewhere :P

[Daedius]

You're a tank, not a DPS'er... you shouldn't be pulling such big numbers in comparison to the DPS in the first place...

[mistahwilshire]

So long as you realize that this won't necessarily mean you can pull 4 groups of mobs, the tank with the highest damage will be taking agro of all bar taunted mobs, and when it's M+ you won't be able to handle that (I assume).

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Who tanks in all clothie run? Or is it more a CC comp? Sounds like it could take a while.

All leather group, now that's easily doable...heck all druid is easy.

Warlock pet, 3 mages, and a priest. Mythic 0 bosses just don't have enough HP for 4 DPS comps with 4 above average players behind them.

I don't think it's something anyone could do like all Druids, though.

[Christan]

if a BRM or war are beating you, there's an issue, even as spriest or feral, unless they outgear you.
if a DK or DH tank are beating you? it may be they have more gear than you, or that' your bad -especially- if playing dps dh/ww/mage/etc
or if you're a priest or feral you just get the short end constantly.

sorry but some classes are just broken, one way or the other when it comes to dps, but tanks should be doing much less, at least tanks aren't at 1/5th the dps,
i'd be happy with a tank being at half with equally geared/skilled players, maybe matching if outgearing or seriously outskilling players.

but doing so much more? and talking about making the runs longer etc etc etc...not really, they can adjust HP of mobs in mythic+ / raids, to compensate for 1-2 tanks, doing less damage, they could buff the classes that need a buff right now, to compensate for lost tank damage, they could do a lot

[sponge5307]

Class balance is pretty horrible across the board in Legion.
Nerfing all tank damage by 10% is probably a mistake but I'm not sure Blizzard can handle all the stuff they need to fix in order to balance every class in this expantion.
It's like they have just given up.

yea let's talk about warlocks crap DPS lol. you either pick decent AoE and be bring at ST or do decent ST or crap Dps. And get kick out after first boss coz your dps sucks due to the talent and game design.

If blizzard want to balance out things they would need to buff class that is not performing and nerfing class. Yea let's make tank do more damage like that's going to help with the shortage of tanks atm.

[anon5123]

Let's take 4 tanks and a healer into mythics! Could be awesome

you'd honestly do just fine, it'll just take a little longer on bosses.

[Slicer299]

1st. Not all tanks deserved that nerf. Only DHs and DKs had outstanding aoe dps. BrM aoe and st damage was poop, why they got nerfed?
2nd. They were comparing it to what? Most ranged DPS have botched cleave/aoe abilties and can't perform at all in those areas.

As a Hunter, I run BM for Mythics with a specific Mythic dungeon cleave talent and artifact build. I can pull anywhere from 400-800k depending on the trash pack. And will still see certain tanks rivaling me for the top of the meters. So while some tanks classes don't need the same nerf across the board, it's is absolutely not a DPS issue. And just because not all DPS classes/specs are good at aoe/cleave on trash packs, does not mean tanks should ever be beating them on the meters.

[lolpve]

They should revert tank dps to TBC levels - just above healers. No reason for tanks to be doing meaningful dps except all these pre-teens with ADHD need to be able to tank, self-heal and dps at the same time otherwise they cry.

[Deleted]

I've been playing pretty much every moment I've been able to since launch, ive got a DH, DK and Priy paladin tank at max level and have cleared the mythic dungeons 5 times or more in total, I personally think that these changes are not necessary, but I can understand why they have happened, it's just such a shame that Blizzard have basically gone back on their word.

I think in an ideal world a tank should do around 2/3 of a DD's damage on single target and around 3/4 on AoE, it think that they were very close to these numbers, blood and vengeance AoE was slightly too high as was pals single target, I think a 10% reduc to these specific areas of tank damage would have been perfect, but 10% across the board tank damage reduc is just lazy and silly.

In the current state of the game as a VDH there is no dos spec that can lose to you ST, in AoE there is a few like spriest and feral, but those two would both annihilate a VDH on single target, it's about strengths and weaknesses. I've been playing primarily with a group of friends, we are all experienced and good players and I've found that the tank damage numbers are pretty much ok except for what I said earlier, however when I queue solo for hcs to get the bag I am normally winning single target and destroying AoE and this I think is the reason for these nerfs, the tanks rotation is usually a bit simpler than a dps one because we have to concern ourselves with surviving, which doesn't help much either. Anyway I think it's a shame they have done this but I'll get over it, and to some of these posters I just want to say if you are losing to a tank on dps for a boss and that tank isn't at least 10 ilvls higher than you than that is not a problem with the game but instead you were simply outplayed.

[Thage]

From a blue post on the frontpage: "tanks should be very sturdy and effective at killing things, but too often their damage output rivals that of pure damage dealers"
Has nothing to do with lazy dps underperforming.

This. Outside level 110 dungeons, nearly every dungeon run I've been in has seen the tank out-DPS at minimum one dedicated DPS, and I'm pruning out the ones that are obviously really, really bad to keep the sample on-topic (otherwise I'd have to include all the dungeon runs from 15-109 where the tank is numero uno or numero dos on the meters due to the ridiculous damage scaling on tank stats in AoE situations).

I'm talking even in 110 Normal dungeons (where everyone's in the process of gearing up for Heroics), where all the DPS are pulling at minimum 90k (still on the low end in 110 Normals, but high enough to give them the benefit of the doubt that they're trying, but aren't up to snuff on their rotation, rather than the ones who don't even care enough to try), tanks tend to outdo at least one DPS which begs the question of why bother enforcing the five-player dynamic? At that point you may as well just bake tank survivability into DPS characters if the tanks are going to do the same or better numbers as dedicated DPS.

So I'm pretty OK with tank damage being nerfed down. The whole idea behind tanks in the first place is that you trade big damage numbers for shit-tons of survivability, and your role in the group is to get whaled on by the big dragons so your buddies can kill the big dragon without getting squished, and you've got a healer there to make sure you can keep getting whaled on by the big dragon. When a tank fills two out of three roles, it starts to become a question as to why you need your squishy buddies when you can just bring a few more like you along and accomplish the same thing with even less stress for your healer.

[Saverem]

You realize two tank cms have been a thing even the last addon around ?

And you think a 10% nerf is going to change that tho?

2 tank are for more than just high AoE trash damage.

[Evilfish]

From a blue post on the frontpage: "tanks should be very sturdy and effective at killing things, but too often their damage output rivals that of pure damage dealers"
Has nothing to do with lazy dps underperforming.

I bet that's what all low DPS say.

But hey, if it makes them feel better by outdps-ing the healer and the tank instead of just the healer, then that's fine.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I bet that's what all low DPS say.

But hey, if it makes them feel better by outdps-ing the healer and the tank instead of just the healer, then that's fine.

No there is a history(In recent years) of Tanks out damaging DPS. It's there, weather people like that or not.

[Requimortem]

I bet that's what all low DPS say.

But hey, if it makes them feel better by outdps-ing the healer and the tank instead of just the healer, then that's fine.

I bet that's what all the ignorant people say.

[Deleted]

No there is a history(In recent years) of Tanks out damaging DPS. It's there, weather people like that or not.

The only time in recent(ish) history where a tank of similar gear and skill would do more damage than a DD spec was in MoP with vengeance, vengeance is no longer in the game and it is no longer an issue, apart from a few bumps here and there the tank damage was ok for most of WoD and the reality is that it's ok now, it's just the only group content most people are doing now is 5 mans where tanks will shine a little brighter due to a large amount of AoE and short boss fights. I honestly think the nerf was just to keep the lower skill players quiet until LFR, 10% isn't really a huge amount and those who were bad enough to do less damage than me before will probably still do less damage than me.

[Deleted]

Blizzard say tanks are outperforming pure DPS classes, but I've never seen that. When I playing with decent DPS players who are in similar item level gear to me, they destroy me on bosses. They're doing 200k-300k . Meanwhile I'm doing 150k.

The only people I beat are. People who are a lower item level than me, people playing specs which need a really long time to ramp up and the other two DPS kill stuff way to fast and people who are just generally bad at the game.

If some specs are currently performing less DPS than Tanks with similar item level then that is a problem with that spec. Not the Tanking role.

[Zentail]

My guild group consists of 3 dps doing ~200k-300k dps because they know how to play their class and they're good. It has a healer that often doesn't even need to heal in heroics anymore and pulls about 120k dps. Then there's me, the tank, pulling about 120k dps or so, competing with the healer in my group. This is all single-target scenarios. AoE, the DPS numbers are about the same except I'm ending pulls at about 200k dps there. AoE, I've been able to cap my dps at about 400k and the dps in my group about 600k. Things died so quick that DPS numbers didn't even go down. I'm the highest item level at 849. Healer is 844, and the dps are all 838-342.

This nerf directly applies to the "majority" of players where DPS sucks and can't play or whatever the stupid reason is. People like my group, though, are going to take a hit from the nerf where now the tank can't even out DPS the healer, so that's cool. The nerf isn't that big. 10% to me as the lowest dps will hardly slow down my super fast heroic clears. However, the nerf does seem incredibly stupid at this point. The developer reasoning is not valid at all in the case of my group. I, flat out, cannot rival my group's dps in any scenario.