Proper Demon Hunter Opener With Prepared/Momentum

[Shirofune]

What I currently do is:

- Fel Rush in
- Fel Barrage (if talented)
- FotI
- Throw Glaive

---- Momentum window ends here

Generate fury up to 60~

- VR away

- Eye Beam
- Throw Glaive

With Eye Beam is hard to squeeze 3 skills into a Momo window, so its probably over by now.

Generate fury up to 70~

Meta -> Fel Rush -> Normal rotation

The only change I've to react to is using Fel Barrage twice if I happen to get 5 charges after the FotI + EB combo

[Deleted]

What I currently do is:

- Fel Rush in
- Fel Barrage (if talented)
- FotI
- Throw Glaive

---- Momentum window ends here

Generate fury up to 60~

- VR away

- Eye Beam
- Throw Glaive

With Eye Beam is hard to squeeze 3 skills into a Momo window, so its probably over by now.

Generate fury up to 70~

Meta -> Fel Rush -> Normal rotation

The only change I've to react to is using Fel Barrage twice if I happen to get 5 charges after the FotI + EB combo

if you don't have anguish its a dps loss to use eye beam, and even with anguish on single target using eye beam is less than 1% dps gain

just saying, might wanna consider saving eye beam for if there's any cleave available, then its a big dps gain. other than that using eye beam on a single target is pretty much pointless and can be completely skipped

plus, with bloodlust and most trinkets being used on the start of the fight you want to meta asap, so i think waiting another momentum window to use meta would be actually a dps loss

[Shirofune]

if you don't have anguish its a dps loss to use eye beam, and even with anguish on single target using eye beam is less than 1% dps gain

just saying, might wanna consider saving eye beam for if there's any cleave available, then its a big dps gain. other than that using eye beam on a single target is pretty much pointless and can be completely skipped

plus, with bloodlust and most trinkets being used on the start of the fight you want to meta asap, so i think waiting another momentum window to use meta would be actually a dps loss

Of course, this is talking about ST and with Anguish.

You might be right about about delaying Meta, tho. I don't know, I feel like it's better to use all the CDs early and let them refresh so they're ready to use when you're out of meta.

If Eye Beam is so worthless in ST even with Anguish, I don't know, it might be better not to use it at all, because it takes almost 2 GCDs + the Anguish proc is delayed so it is almost never in a Momo window unless you Fel Rush as soon as Eye Beam is over, that means, with almost no fury.

[Deleted]

Of course, this is talking about ST and with Anguish.

You might be right about about delaying Meta, tho. I don't know, I feel like it's better to use all the CDs early and let them refresh so they're ready to use when you're out of meta.

If Eye Beam is so worthless in ST even with Anguish, I don't know, it might be better not to use it at all, because it takes almost 2 GCDs + the Anguish proc is delayed so it is almost never in a Momo window unless you Fel Rush as soon as Eye Beam is over, that means, with almost no fury.

let me put it this way
if you use eye beam on pure single target, its an unsignificant dps gain, if any
if you DON'T use eye beam on 2+ targets, its a huge dps loss


might wanna reconsider :P



and u wanna start momentum window with fury of the illidari, because the explosion damage wont be buffed by momentum if momentum isnt up.

Bloodlet sure, you can use throw glaive in last 0.1 sec of momentum, the dmg buff will still be there. Fury of the Illidari - nope. Full foti cast and explosion have to be in momentum window in order to get more dmg. Thats why foti should always be your first spell to cast in a momentum window

[Icecreamcake]

Once after Meta in the opener what do you guys do? Here's typically what I do

Meta
FR if at 60-80 Fury
2x Chaos Strike
GT if need to apply
Build up to 60-80 Fury
FR
2x Chaos Strike
GT if need to apply
Use VR if not on cool down

Is this not what we're supposed to do?

[Baane]

You guys are using FoTI without chaos blades active ? From what I know FoTI deals Chaos Damage and using it before Chaos Blades makes you miss the 12% increase . That being said.
FR
TG
Build Fury to 70
VR
Meta mid air
Chaos Blades
FoTI

[Neronis]

I see people saying to use Fury of the Illidari early on. Clearly you want that juicy momentum window for it to do it's thing in, but wouldn't you want to use it when you have Chaos Blades up too? All I can think of is you not wanting to use a non-annihilation/glaive toss under the effect of Metamorphosis but that's my only hypothesis.

I haven't spoke with other DHs or browsed forums that much but this is what I've been doing. I have 13% haste without buffs for the record:

1. Fel Rush
2. Throw Glaive to get the cooldown rolling, and to get a Momentum + possible trinkets procced Bloodlet DoT ticking. If there's an immediate Bloodlust you could probably just burn both charges here because later on Metamorphosis plus Bloodlust/Heroism feels like Running In The 90s sounds.
3. Build Fury to 30-ish under cap or just 80-100 depending on your points in Contained Fury. By the time you're able to act out of the upcoming Metamorphosis with a GCD, your Prepared will have ticked enough times to grant you 12 Fury so prepare(hehe) for that.
4. VR > Immediate Metamorphosis.
5. Chaos Blades > Fury of the Illidari, by this point your Throw Glaive has 3 or less seconds on it's cooldown remaining.
6. Chaos Strike once to avoid capping Fury.
7. Immediately Fel Rush, this will reapply momentum nearly a fraction of a second after or before it falls off but ensure Fury of the Illidari keeps ticking and will eventually detonate under the effect of Momentum. You'd ideally want to do it as fast as possible and hit your Fel Rush while Vengeful Retreat's Momentum is still up for another fraction of a second to boost it's damage a bit.

You now have a full Momentum buff to play with, Metamorphosis, 100+ Fury, almost two charges of Glaive Toss available for use, and a near full Chaos Blades buff up. I'd probably just burn both of those Glaives ASAP to get the most out of Chaos Blades+Momentum Bloodlet ticks, and then later in Metamorphosis pop Blur for more Fel Rush charges if needed.

Just my two cents. What do you all think?

From what I know FoTI deals Chaos Damage and using it before Chaos Blades makes you miss the 12% increase

It does deal chaos damage, but Chaos Blades does not amplify your mastery. Chaos Blades applies your mastery's bonus damage to all damage dealt. It also applies it on top of your Mastery should you use it on an ability that does Chaos Damage.

An example would be;

Eye Beam, which naturally does Chaos Damage: Ticking for 34-37k
Eye Beam when used with Chaos Blades: 43-47k
Eye Beam when used with Chaos Blades AND Momentum, just for fun: 52-55k

[Shirofune]

let me put it this way
if you use eye beam on pure single target, its an unsignificant dps gain, if any
if you DON'T use eye beam on 2+ targets, its a huge dps loss


might wanna reconsider :P



and u wanna start momentum window with fury of the illidari, because the explosion damage wont be buffed by momentum if momentum isnt up.

Bloodlet sure, you can use throw glaive in last 0.1 sec of momentum, the dmg buff will still be there. Fury of the Illidari - nope. Full foti cast and explosion have to be in momentum window in order to get more dmg. Thats why foti should always be your first spell to cast in a momentum window

The only reason I use Fel Barrage before is because it reloads a lot faster with the ticking damage of FotI. With both FotI and EB, you might have the 5 charges rolling after the EB to use it again before the Meta burst.

[Serialwg]

1. Fel Rush
2. Throw Glaive to get the cooldown rolling, and to get a Momentum + possible trinkets procced Bloodlet DoT ticking. If there's an immediate Bloodlust you could probably just burn both charges here because later on Metamorphosis plus Bloodlust/Heroism feels like Running In The 90s sounds.
3. Build Fury to 30-ish under cap or just 80-100 depending on your points in Contained Fury. By the time you're able to act out of the upcoming Metamorphosis with a GCD, your Prepared will have ticked enough times to grant you 12 Fury so prepare(hehe) for that.
4. VR > Immediate Metamorphosis.
5. Chaos Blades > Fury of the Illidari, by this point your Throw Glaive has 3 or less seconds on it's cooldown remaining.
6. Chaos Strike once to avoid capping Fury.
7. Immediately Fel Rush, this will reapply momentum nearly a fraction of a second after or before it falls off but ensure Fury of the Illidari keeps ticking and will eventually detonate under the effect of Momentum. You'd ideally want to do it as fast as possible and hit your Fel Rush while Vengeful Retreat's Momentum is still up for another fraction of a second to boost it's damage a bit.

This is how I am doing the opener, but I'm having trouble using that last fel rush before momentum falls off and the FoTI explosion is actually happening without momentum, might be because I'm playing with 150ms, I was actually thinking of using chaos blade before VR+FoTI into meta and normal rotation, but I'm not sure if losing a couple of seconds of chaos blade inside meta, just so I can use FoTI properly buffed, would be better, thoughts?

[Neronis]

This is how I am doing the opener, but I'm having trouble using that last fel rush before momentum falls off and the FoTI explosion is actually happening without momentum, might be because I'm playing with 150ms, I was actually thinking of using chaos blade before VR+FoTI into meta and normal rotation, but I'm not sure if losing a couple of seconds of chaos blade inside meta, just so I can use FoTI properly buffed, would be better, thoughts?

You should have quite a bit of leeway with getting your FotI explosion inside momentum(it lasts for 3 seconds, so chaos strike>fel rush should be more than enough time. Plus you're in meta with boosted haste). I noticed you said "VR+FotI" but my sequence has FotI after landing from VR+Meta. Maybe that's why it seems so tight for you.

[Serialwg]

You should have quite a bit of leeway with getting your FotI explosion inside momentum(it lasts for 3 seconds, so chaos strike>fel rush should be more than enough time. Plus you're in meta with boosted haste). I noticed you said "VR+FotI" but my sequence has FotI after landing from VR+Meta. Maybe that's why it seems so tight for you.

You misunderstood me, I'm doing it the same way you are, but for some reason I cant fit that fel rush before momentum falls off, doing VR+FotI into meta was just another way that I was thinking of doing it to solve the original problem.

Edit: To be clear, what I'm saying is that I cant fit Meta+Chaos Blades+FoTI+Chaos Strike+Fel Rush inside the first momentum window(From VR). The momentum usually falls off after Chaos Strike and I have to wait for the global to cast fel rush.

[Neronis]

Edit: To be clear, what I'm saying is that I cant fit Meta+Chaos Blades+FoTI+Chaos Strike+Fel Rush inside the first momentum window(From VR). The momentum usually falls off after Chaos Strike and I have to wait for the global to cast fel rush.

Oh okay, I understand. Sorry for the confusion. It's definitely up to latency/luck to get that last Fel Rush inside momentum. Every input, including using Meta ASAP a millisecond after using VR(you almost don't leave the ground), has to be airtight. Either way the new momentum will buff the end of your FotI. It's just a very small optimization, considering how Chaos Blades+Momentum together don't scale additively.

Hope this helps! I'm at work right now so it's hard for me to visualize cooldowns and buffs and stuff so let me know if I got something messed up.

[JBonz]

1. Fel Rush
2. Throw Glaive to get the cooldown rolling, and to get a Momentum + possible trinkets procced Bloodlet DoT ticking. If there's an immediate Bloodlust you could probably just burn both charges here because later on Metamorphosis plus Bloodlust/Heroism feels like Running In The 90s sounds.
3. Build Fury to 30-ish under cap or just 80-100 depending on your points in Contained Fury. By the time you're able to act out of the upcoming Metamorphosis with a GCD, your Prepared will have ticked enough times to grant you 12 Fury so prepare(hehe) for that.
4. VR > Immediate Metamorphosis.
5. Chaos Blades > Fury of the Illidari, by this point your Throw Glaive has 3 or less seconds on it's cooldown remaining.
6. Chaos Strike once to avoid capping Fury.
7. Immediately Fel Rush, this will reapply momentum nearly a fraction of a second after or before it falls off but ensure Fury of the Illidari keeps ticking and will eventually detonate under the effect of Momentum. You'd ideally want to do it as fast as possible and hit your Fel Rush while Vengeful Retreat's Momentum is still up for another fraction of a second to boost it's damage a bit.

Delaying FoTI until Chaos Blades is active seems like a no brainer as it's a good chunk of extra damage. However, where are we thinking about putting Eye Beam (w/ Anguish) into this opener? After meta and the initial fury/annihilation dump? As posted above, you need a TG (maybe x2 for CB+Momo buff) soon in here before it caps back to 2. It feels like EB has no place until post meta honestly unless you do Fel Rush > Annihilate > EB after you reapply TG above. Haven't done the math on it as I need to go to bed but not sure it makes any sense.

[Baane]

Oh okay, I understand. Sorry for the confusion. It's definitely up to latency/luck to get that last Fel Rush inside momentum. Every input, including using Meta ASAP a millisecond after using VR(you almost don't leave the ground), has to be airtight. Either way the new momentum will buff the end of your FotI. It's just a very small optimization, considering how Chaos Blades+Momentum together don't scale additively.

Hope this helps! I'm at work right now so it's hard for me to visualize cooldowns and buffs and stuff so let me know if I got something messed up.

I hope you know that Fel Rush doesn't benefit from Momentum.

[Deleted]

I don't get the rush to get into Meta so soon. Being in Meta does no damage itself, in only gives Haste (which benefits Throw Glaive mainly) and increases Chaos Strike damage. As long as you still have have to use FotI, FB (if talented), Eye Beam and Throw Glaive (and Fel Rush / VR to keep momentum up), you have zero GCDs to use Anihilation anyway.

I usually
FR in, Throw Glaive twice, one Demons Bite
VR back, FB (if talented) + Eye Beam
FR back in, FotI, Throw Glaive
FR, maybe one Demons Bite and Meta

So I get out all of my longer CDs damage with full momentum, got Throw Glaive rolling and have full Fury when going into Meta and I actually have the GCDs to spam Anihilation. Yes, Throw Glaive profits later from being in Meta, but it also lasts longer into the fight.

(I Have no procc trinkets so far, this also influences my decision on this)

[Neronis]

I hope you know that Fel Rush doesn't benefit from Momentum.

It absolutely does, just not from it's own momentum buff. An existing one does buff it.

[Deleted]

I've been wondering tho, what to do while in Meta, continue standard rotation or just go annhilation spam.
Annihilation does crazy amounts of damage so I've been thinking of trying to just keep momentum up as much as possible and just generate/spend fury and ignore rest of the abilities during meta, i tried it few times and it seems like i do more damage that way (talking about boss fight and single target).

[Deleted]

I've been wondering tho, what to do while in Meta, continue standard rotation or just go annhilation spam.
Annihilation does crazy amounts of damage so I've been thinking of trying to just keep momentum up as much as possible and just generate/spend fury and ignore rest of the abilities during meta, i tried it few times and it seems like i do more damage that way (talking about boss fight and single target).

continue standard rotation

bloodlet deals way too much damage to ignore it, even while in meta

and its just 1 gcd

[Shirofune]

I've been wondering tho, what to do while in Meta, continue standard rotation or just go annhilation spam.
Annihilation does crazy amounts of damage so I've been thinking of trying to just keep momentum up as much as possible and just generate/spend fury and ignore rest of the abilities during meta, i tried it few times and it seems like i do more damage that way (talking about boss fight and single target).

I pretty much ignore Eye Beam/FBarrage unless AoE is present. I try to fill as many Annihilations as possible while keeping Bloodlet up

[Deleted]

Would you be? I got my second gold dragon trait today. I havent been going nuts with the AP farming either. I hit 110 on day 1, but after that i play ~3-4 hours a day at most.

I also have tank weapon at 13 or so traits.

i almost got 3 gold traits took it slow on levling i was like almost 2 days behind most ppl.

so i guess you are pretty late hehe :P