7.1 spoilers "An Elven Problem"

[Night Wind]

Keep telling that to yourself. But since all you're capable to do is either running in circles or whimsically screaming "I'm right 'cuz you're wrong lol salty troll" not only my point stands but you pretty much confirmed everything I said about you.



The irony.

Since you sound offended, know that I used your example because it was fitting and nothing else. Indeed, your way of using a blue's statement to your advantage is identical to how Ravenmoon has done here. I'm sorry that you believe so fervently in the supposed factual weight of your opinion but that's your problem, not mine.

You're literally the only one who argues that the word "Strength" actually means "Army". Where has the word "Strength" ever been used to mean "Army" in Warcraft in a similar way?

[Friendlyimmolation]

You're literally the only one who argues that the word "Strength" actually means "Army". Where has the word "Strength" ever been used to mean "Army" in Warcraft in a similar way?

This argument is beyond stupid, Strength and forces have been interchangeable words used in warfare and fantasy since it existed. The fact that you persist in your attempt to ignore or outright deny this is ridiculous. However once agin this is not the place for this, make your own thread and cry there.

[Night Wind]

This argument is beyond stupid, Strength and forces have been interchangeable words used in warfare and fantasy since it existed. The fact that you persist in your attempt to ignore or outright deny this is ridiculous. However once agin this is not the place for this, make your own thread and cry there.

So do you have any examples of it in Warcraft or not?

[Graden]

You're literally the only one who argues that the word "Strength" actually means "Army". Where has the word "Strength" ever been used to mean "Army" in Warcraft in a similar way?

You can't be serious.

[Aucald]

Final warning before thread closure.

[Zulkhan]

You're literally the only one who argues that the word "Strength" actually means "Army". Where has the word "Strength" ever been used to mean "Army" in Warcraft in a similar way?

Sigh...

"Strength" does not mean "Army", is the word "Strength" that is generally used in multiple contexts. Pretty much the same occurs with "Power". When we say that a nation consolidated its "power" over a conquered territory we implicity refer to its armies occupying the place. It's far from rare or difficult find these kind of examples in either Warcraft and non-Warcraft material.

Oh well, time to sleep for me. Rock on Windy.

- - - Updated - - -

Final warning before thread closure.

I saw this only after I replied. Apologies.

[Night Wind]

You can't be serious.

I am. I simply want an example. Such as " Grom's strength was immense" or "Grom's strength was cut in half after the battle" in which the word "strength" is referring to someone's army.

[FelPlague]

Man all these people calling tyrande a bitch for being mean to thalysia... Even after her and her people abandoned the war of the ancients to save themselves... Yeah I think anyone would be pissed off. And how she talks to the horde? Yeah your asking for her help to save traitors reclaim the city she grew up in. For themselves... And to work with traitors and enemies... Yeah.. OK I would be super nice too

[Gurluas]

Lets get back to the topic. Where do you think the rest of the Silver Covenant is? Theres very few in the Trueshot Lodge, and Vereesa only has two guards. What is the rest of them doing?

Man all these people calling tyrande a bitch for being mean to thalysia... Even after her and her people abandoned the war of the ancients to save themselves... Yeah I think anyone would be pissed off. And how she talks to the horde? Yeah your asking for her help to save traitors reclaim the city she free up in. For themselves... And to work with traitors and enemies... Yeah.. OK I would be super nice too

They never joined the resistance. And the Highborne actually rebelled against Azshara and tried to sabotage the Legion's portal then made a shield. So no, they're not traitors.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Lets get back to the topic. Where do you think the rest of the Silver Covenant is? Theres very few in the Trueshot Lodge, and Vereesa only has two guards. What is the rest of them doing?

Probably being dead, There weren't alot of them in the first place. And it hasnt been nearly long enough for any children they may have had to replace them, and they have no pools to draw in new recruits from. All it was was a militant small force under the command of Vereesa.

[Gurluas]

Probably being dead, There weren't alot of them in the first place. And it hasnt been nearly long enough for any children they may have had to replace them, and they have no pools to draw in new recruits from. All it was was a militant small force under the command of Vereesa.

I doubt they all died. They had a lot of units last we saw them on Thunder Isle. Theres no way they went from what is 40 npcs or so, scaled down, to 4. No I believe they're doing something else. Maybe helping Jaina wherever she is.

[Friendlyimmolation]

I doubt they all died. They had a lot of units last we saw them on Thunder Isle. Theres no way they went from what is 40 npcs or so, scaled down, to 4. No I believe they're doing something else. Maybe helping Jaina wherever she is.

They might have defected and came crawling back to Silvermoon as well, /shrug. I don't think they would be following Jaina around either, seeing as Jaina doesn't have the aura of crazy Vereesa has, which they feed off of.

[Alienshroom]

Unless I missed something, Gul'dan has not shown up in these quests. Looks like he was demoted to loot pinata. Too bad.

[Combatbutler]

They never joined the resistance. And the Highborne actually rebelled against Azshara and tried to sabotage the Legion's portal then made a shield. So no, they're not traitors.

No, but that makes them cowards and Tyrande is still quite angry about it, to quote her

Any regret I had for these people vanished when they went under that shield.

[Garfurion]

Lets get back to the topic. Where do you think the rest of the Silver Covenant is? Theres very few in the Trueshot Lodge, and Vereesa only has two guards. What is the rest of them doing?

There are also very few Farstriders in the Lodge, or other races/factions. They are simply not shown in game at the moment unless needed for the story.

[Raetary]

Lets get back to the topic. Where do you think the rest of the Silver Covenant is? Theres very few in the Trueshot Lodge, and Vereesa only has two guards. What is the rest of them doing?

Either dead because there werent many of them in the first place, or with proudmoore

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

[FelPlague]

Lets get back to the topic. Where do you think the rest of the Silver Covenant is? Theres very few in the Trueshot Lodge, and Vereesa only has two guards. What is the rest of them doing?


They never joined the resistance. And the Highborne actually rebelled against Azshara and tried to sabotage the Legion's portal then made a shield. So no, they're not traitors.

Read what tyrande says about thalryssia...
Because that's the point... They had the chance to help and they chose to say no. And hide off on their own. Putting themselves in a bubble. To let the war happen around them. Like cowards...
Who knows. With their help. All of their massive army of elite magi and priests. The war could have gone along much much better. And tyrande has every right to be mad at them. Yes she comes off as bitchy. But I would be too

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Unless I missed something, Gul'dan has not shown up in these quests. Looks like he was demoted to loot pinata. Too bad.

He's sorta busy... A bit too busy to deal with some elves... You know. Summoning sargeras and all?

[Mace]

Then don't use unfitting and/or twisted terms to describe said point. "Night elvessness" is hilarious enough as it is.

The fact that Nightborne and Night Elves share similarities despite being different elf races does not validate an usage of the "Night Elf" term to somehow incorporate the both of them within some weird terminology, which is not really weird but just a pretentious using of the Night Elf term without capital letters to sell the idea that it means something else in that way. It doesn't. Night Elf and night elf mean the same thing and referes to the same kind of elves, aka the Kaldorei.

Instead of talking of "Night Elvessness" which I don't know how the both you can keep repeating it while maintaing a straight face, you can just say that Night Elves and Nightborne share certain common traits, included the nocturnal theme. That's it. This does not make them "Night Elves" because "Night Elves" is the term to describe the Kaldorei elf race, be it with capital or without capital letters.

I'm aware this may sound petty to you but to kind of quote Mehrunes, words have precise meanings. And Night Elf has a precise one in WoW, referring to a specific race of elf. Playing with said words in such a way does nothing but generate a lot of unnecessary confusion when it could simply be pointed out that Night Elves and Nightborne are different kind of elves, just like Blood Elves and High Elves, but sharing certain similarities with Night Elves, included, again, the nocturnal theme.

How something so simple needs cringeworthy terms like "Night Elvessness" to be properly explained or stressing the obviously non-existing difference between Night Elves and night elves is beyond me.

Anyway, this is my first and last intervention on the matter. The thread has been derailed enough from this bullshit.

Let's get to the heart of what this is all really about. This is certainly not about night elves or nightborne, as the credibility of the points on discussion have long since lost any reasonable meaning. It's about egos, who's got to have the last word, and one person venting their frustration and dislike at another by nitpicking at everything they say. It's the same person always antagonising and doing the poking.

I came on here delighted to discover the events of 7.1, eager to jump into the excitement, seeing it's something I've been writing about and contesting passionately, especailly with Ravenmoon, who'd been for an ALL night elf vs my ALL elves. Here I am enjoying everyone's excitement, then enters Mehrunes, going off on one with clearly her usual sarcasm based witty remarks, which I gather are entirely for Ravenmoon's benefit, and I watch yet another topic dragged into a really senseless argument on nonsense, then I'm dragged into it, for also expressing my views.

I draw the line there. These are topics about Nightborne elves, who's entire civilization is based on Night elves, how the fly do you not expect Night elves to be at the centre of any discussion concerning this obviously Kaldorei based society, then have the nerve and gumption to nitpick about "night elvenness" and "elves of the night" like it's some taboo word, then cause a raucous and stink up the thread with foul language, and hitting specifically at an individual on the very issue about the very night elven based and related nightborne society buggles my mind in it's pettiness and silliness, not to mention the picking on which is an echo of some more serious cases cyber bullying that started out just like this, a thing which I despise immensely.

Create a song and dance about how nightborne are not night elves, when the player (s) are admiring the night elvenness of the whole ordeal to me seems the height of pettiness, hitting out for no good reason than to rub someone else up, ruining the posting and reading experience for many of us. Do you know what it is like to click on a thread about nightborne or night elves, see a peaceful fan discussion tone change every time that one enters in nitpicking who she knows is a night elf/nightborne fan, it's inciting and inflammatory.

I mean seriously - because nightborne are not night elves exactly...wtf? This is why you do this? nah, there's something else going on here - creating a whole song and dance to sour the experience for us, then drag me into it. Now he's got you wading in, and criticizing over the words and terms like night elvenness over a race that is so clearly night elf based, related and drawn from as if it's some alien concept. What loyalty do you owe that woman or man that you would wade into the silliness and back the irritating pettiness. If he/she is annoyed at a person, she should private message them. Otherwise waging a personal vendetta on every thread, is harassment which I would be surprised if Ravenmoon hasn't already reported.


The whole thing seem so silly, and entirely of their creating, there is nothing wrong in using terms and words to explain a point of view, the night elvenness of a clearly night elven based new race, elves of the night or whatever - it is UTTERLY FUTILE and silly, please do not indulge him/her and I ask Ravenmoon publicly not to rise to the baiting, because it's pointless. IFshe wants to go on thinking nightborne have nothing to do with night elves and pick on every night elf reference he brings up in response, knowing it's her, he should just not respond. I know I won't. This is like the 5th or so discussion I've noticed she wades in and starts having a go at the guy, then complains about the terms he uses to answer her questions. Oh Mehrunes what did he do to you to casue you to be so unkind?

Please take your little argument to private discussion.

[Mehrunes]

you see, you're being contentious here again. I told you it was not a term, nor was any claim by me, or by Ravenmoon or anyone else that it was term. You took the phrase and classified it as a term to prove that it was wrong. But no one was claiming it was ever a term, just used to describe a point.

Uh huh. But sure, it's not a term then. It's just disjointed mess made up of few random words then. Whatever. The fanfiction of you two is that there's some wider meaning of the term night elf than Kaldorei and that Kaldorei are just a group of, with other races being part of the wider term too. Phrase it however you want, elves of the night, nocturnal elves, whatever. Just like there's no source source for each of these individual "descriptions of the point" there are no sources for the point itself either.

Let's get to the heart of what this is all really about. This is certainly not about night elves or nightborne, as the credibility of the points on discussion have long since lost any reasonable meaning. It's about egos, who's got to have the last word, and one person venting their frustration and dislike at another by nitpicking at everything they say. It's the same person always antagonising and doing the poking.

Credibility of "night elveness" never had any reasonable meaning. And how weird you're chastising people for antagonizing, poking or having the last word when I didn't even respond to your previous post.

I came on here delighted to discover the events of 7.1, eager to jump into the excitement, seeing it's something I've been writing about and contesting passionately, especailly with Ravenmoon, who'd been for an ALL night elf vs my ALL elves. Here I am enjoying everyone's excitement, then enters Mehrunes, going off on one with clearly her usual sarcasm based witty remarks, which I gather are entirely for Ravenmoon's benefit, and I watch yet another topic dragged into a really senseless argument on nonsense, then I'm dragged into it, for also expressing my views.

If you were kind enough not to spread fanfiction on a lore forum, you wouldn't be dragged into anything, would you now?

Create a song and dance about how nightborne are not night elves, when the player (s) are admiring the night elvenness of the whole ordeal to me seems the height of pettiness, hitting out for no good reason than to rub someone else up, ruining the posting and reading experience for many of us. Do you know what it is like to click on a thread about nightborne or night elves, see a peaceful fan discussion tone change every time that one enters in nitpicking who she knows is a night elf/nightborne fan, it's inciting and inflammatory.

Again, considering you totally-not-having-the-last-word when I already dropped the discussion you're not really in a position to talk about pettiness. And do you know what it is like to click on a thread about lore and see headcanon? From a person I indeed know is a Night Elf fan, but to be specific, a Night Elf fan that has spread other headcanon about the race again and again and again over the years (which you deliberately ignored because you always defend that since you just happen to have the exact same opinions worded in the exact same ways, like Springer06 on WoWPedia, because such a coincidence is totally plausible)? Because it sure as fuck ruins my reading experience.

I mean seriously - because nightborne are not night elves exactly...wtf? This is why you do this? nah, there's something else going on here - creating a whole song and dance to sour the experience for us, then drag me into it. Now he's got you wading in, and criticizing over the words and terms like night elvenness over a race that is so clearly night elf based, related and drawn from as if it's some alien concept. What loyalty do you owe that woman or man that you would wade into the silliness and back the irritating pettiness. If he/she is annoyed at a person, she should private message them. Otherwise waging a personal vendetta on every thread, is harassment which I would be surprised if Ravenmoon hasn't already reported.

I obviously seduced Zulhkan with my feminine charms. And you don't know what harassment means. Also, sure, you participate in basically all the same threads as ravenmoon and repeat the exact same arguments in the exact same way, straw-man people in the exact same way, misread things in the exact same way, use the exact same terrible logic, so on and so forth, yet you're "dragged into this". But Zulkhan makes one remark and he's wading in. That consistency. And project all you want, but I made it clear over and over again my one and only issue with this nonsense is that it's headcanon.

The whole thing seem so silly, and entirely of their creating, there is nothing wrong in using terms and words to explain a point of view, the night elvenness of a clearly night elven based new race, elves of the night or whatever - it is UTTERLY FUTILE and silly, please do not indulge him/her and I ask Ravenmoon publicly not to rise to the baiting, because it's pointless. IFshe wants to go on thinking nightborne have nothing to do with night elves and pick on every night elf reference he brings up in response, knowing it's her, he should just not respond. I know I won't. This is like the 5th or so discussion I've noticed she wades in and starts having a go at the guy, then complains about the terms he uses to answer her questions. Oh Mehrunes what did he do to you to casue you to be so unkind?

Because this is totally not a bait. And yes, I obviously think Nightborne have nothing to do with Night Elves. Totally. I said the opposite in multiple posts that you quoted, and more, but yes, you're completely right. It's obviously not yet another deflecting straw-man of yours that paints everything in black and white. Because everyone who must think that the Nightborne aren't night elves, Nigth Elves or even NIGHT ELVES must deny any and all connection. It is known. And what could escapees from fanfiction.net have done to anyone indeed. I don't know, but I think we should maybe ask Northem.

Either dead because there werent many of them in the first place, or with proudmoore

I've been doing the orbs for Kosumoth yesterday and the one in Val'sharah looks like Jaina's hideout to me. The one guarded by some extremely annoying Arcane shite. That for reasons unknown is classified as an undead and not elemental (was fun trying to banish it while it nuked me with Arcane Missiles hitting for 700k). What if the reason it's an undead is because Jaina ground the Silver Covenant members with her into dust and infused the guardian with it?

[Deleted]

Finally some Blood Elf lore? Sign me up.