[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[Lochton]

Hmm, curious question.

I've done 3 times the research now. If I do a reset, is there a gain to it, can I stretch a bit further?

[Azuren]

Guys instead of asking for changes to our abilities and Talents I think we deserve a better mastery ? I suggest they either buff the mastery that it will increase the damage of all our Holy Power generators and Judgement + the Debuff spender damage increased, now that's a change that will make our mastery much more appealing, more constant DPS

or,


Bring back our lovely Hand of Light, I miss it, it was fantastic, and maybe create a little spin around how about it affecting our Auto attacks too.

I suggest something similar to this:

Mastery: Hand of Light

"Convert X% of your Physical damage to holy and increase the damage of your Holy power spenders by Y%"

X will have a steeper curve where it will increase less while Y% will have the bigger increase.


another suggestion would be:


Mastery: Divine Judgement

"Your judgement apply a debuff on the target that increase all damage on target by X% for the Paladin and Y% for allies with Greater Blessings can benefit from the damage increase"
another iteration would be
"Your judgement applies a debuff that will make the target take X% increased Holy Damage from the Paladin and Y% increased damage for allies with Greater Blessing" (basically your Judgement and your HP spender)

so more mastery more damage for the raid which will essentially make us Zenyata of WoW, X will be the higher value while Y will be really small it wont increase as much and i capped on 10-15%, and only one Judgement debuff applies on the target.

and to make it that Rets don't rule the raid spots increase the number of blessing Ret can give to 6, where 2 rets will be plenty for a raid, this will make us invaluable for the raids and for RBGs, because we bring something new to the table.

[barial]

Hmm, curious question.

I've done 3 times the research now. If I do a reset, is there a gain to it, can I stretch a bit further?

Yea totally dude. When you reset your artifact power, your research affects it so you can just keep resetting your artifact and max it out in 5 minutes

[Deleted]

Can someone tell me when it's fine to switch to DS instead of TV? Simming tells me at 2+, but it's a net loss on puppet.

[barial]

Can someone tell me when it's fine to switch to DS instead of TV? Simming tells me at 2+, but it's a net loss on puppet.

I'm sure it depends on whether or not you have +%tv damage or +%dv damage on your relics, as well as if you took Final Verdict or not. I do not have tv or dv damage relics and have Final Verdict and in the mythics I ran last night, TV was always hitting harder than DS against 2 targets (not by much though).

[Vuagnon]

Something is wrong with the lvl 60 tier. We shouldn't be forced to lose blade of justice if we want to bring our aoe to decent levels. It's just not fair. I don't know if there is another example of this stuff for any other class.

Also GJ feels like a must because of our horrible aoe. Add the new Crusade change to that and you will have no choice but pick them if you want to stand a chance.

[Deleted]

Can someone tell me when it's fine to switch to DS instead of TV? Simming tells me at 2+, but it's a net loss on puppet.

sub 28 traits on ashbringer 3+ once you have all DS traits 2+ also depends on the relics you have on your artifact

[Lochton]

Yea totally dude. When you reset your artifact power, your research affects it so you can just keep resetting your artifact and max it out in 5 minutes

No need to be a douche.

I was more pointing to the fact that many guides talk about going a minimum way, then hit the reset and start over, reason I asked. As I just went the primary path without the reset, as I didn't see any benefit for it.

[Deleted]

No need to be a douche.

I was more pointing to the fact that many guides talk about going a minimum way, then hit the reset and start over, reason I asked. As I just went the primary path without the reset, as I didn't see any benefit for it.

the reason to respecc is to get the benefit of both versions a the costs of one trait. You are not hampered early because you don´t have AtA and you are later not hampered by having 4 crap traits you would normally take last. You first take the short route to get to AtA asap and then bank all of your AP until you have 67k. then you reset and go the long way.

[Almaric]

Slightly off-topic, did anyone else notice Divine Purpose procs randomly consuming 1-3 Holy Power?

[Marrel]

Hmm, curious question.

I've done 3 times the research now. If I do a reset, is there a gain to it, can I stretch a bit further?

I would still recommend a reset. I didn't fully understand the point of the reset at first and eventually reset my artifact for like 10k AP.

If you never do the reset, you won't get the extra 6% TV dmg until the very end of your artifact progression, which is much more significant than losing out on ~10k AP in the long run.

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Can someone tell me when it's fine to switch to DS instead of TV? Simming tells me at 2+, but it's a net loss on puppet.

According to OP, Icy Veins, and my own experience, 3+ targets is when DS becomes worth it.

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Slightly off-topic, did anyone else notice Divine Purpose procs randomly consuming 1-3 Holy Power?

No. Are you sure you're not missing the proc window? Also, consuming 1-3 makes no sense and if you ever see anything consume 1 HoPo it would be a bug. 3 is normal, and 2 with TFoJ.

[Morally Grey Storm]

If you never do the reset, you won't get the extra 6% TV dmg until the very end of your artifact progression, which is much more significant than losing out on ~10k AP in the long run.

Come again?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

My suggestion would be small, reduce BoW's CD from 7.5 to 6.5. If that 7.1 Change to BoW still goes well

BoJ's CD goes from 10.5 to 7.00


That's me though. >.>

[Lochton]

the reason to respecc is to get the benefit of both versions a the costs of one trait. You are not hampered early because you don´t have AtA and you are later not hampered by having 4 crap traits you would normally take last. You first take the short route to get to AtA asap and then bank all of your AP until you have 67k. then you reset and go the long way.

I would still recommend a reset. I didn't fully understand the point of the reset at first and eventually reset my artifact for like 10k AP.

If you never do the reset, you won't get the extra 6% TV dmg until the very end of your artifact progression, which is much more significant than losing out on ~10k AP in the long run.

Thanks, you two.

It hurts to think about a reset now, I've done the long way now and according to Icy-Veins, I am on the 2nd route now (3rd, of compared to other guides). Basically, almost at lvl 20 artifact.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Thanks, you two.

It hurts to think about a reset now, I've done the long way now and according to Icy-Veins, I am on the 2nd route now (3rd, of compared to other guides). Basically, almost at lvl 20 artifact.

Guess we're in the same boat - I'm 4 talents away from AtA

[Lochton]

Guess we're in the same boat - I'm 4 talents away from AtA

I am at AtA, heading for Echo.. No treasures left in Legion, so all is from dungeons and WQ now.

[Morally Grey Storm]

I am at AtA, heading for Echo.. No treasures left in Legion, so all is from dungeons and WQ now.

Wooo, lucky you


Storm's anecdotal tells time!

Had engaged myself today in slaying of non-scripted adversaries.
Did two BGs: sota and arathi-light(whaysitsname). Won both. Each time was in or near top-5 damage done and killing blows done, with only one death despite receiving close to no healing(and quite possibly no focused fire). I've only prestige level at 8, and yet to get AtA. Though my wings last 32 seconds due to relics, which is fething nice.

Yet I can already tell our Burst in pvp, especially so if timed with stuns, is nothing to scoff at. Yet we certainly lack that additional push beyond, like other classes cooldowns provide. AW is not one, however ridiculous it may sound.
Otoh, mobility is killing us better than enemies, offhealing is nil, and support is a word forlorn.

Still, twas fun. We shall see.

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You know, I wish DP wasn't so bad. Could you imagine the (RNG) capabilities it would have with TFoJ?

Imagine getting 3 DP procs then FToJ, basically 4 divine storms in one judgement window. It would feel pretty nice imo, but that's a bit too much RNG. Still, I wish DP was back to its normal 25%. Could you imagine though? For the people who liked WoD ret with all the procs I could see it being their kinda thing.

All that is needed to be done is implementation of a failsafe mechanic, the likes of one's firemages and furywarriors possess.
Call it pseudo-rng if you will.


But hey, Divine Noprocpose is a t100 talent, a tier that is dedicated to dps throughput. And having our top dps talent be actually a completely rng-based,low-chance passive is not what can be called desirable, much rather reliable, tool.

[TheZ]

Should I avoid putting might on classes that have pets, or does it not matter?

[Ryuji]

Should I avoid putting might on classes that have pets, or does it not matter?

Doesn't matter I think. The more DPS said person does, the more likely you should put might on them, regardless if they have a pet or not.

[Taeldorian]

Should I avoid putting might on classes that have pets, or does it not matter?

Put might on the best dps in your group.

If it's a dungeon, just put might on each dps. If it's a raid, figure out who the top 3 are and throw might on them.