The dk in legion general

[goriander]

Kind of surprised with the negative replies about Unholy to be honest.

The impression that i have so far, doing heroics and mythics, is that at least Unholy is good. We will see once raiding starts and people get better gear.

Have you seen most of the EN fights yet? Melees need to move a ton on every boss and with our mobility we'll have much more downtime than any other melee dps. Combine that with our subpar single target damage and you'll soon realize that you're sitting at the bottom of the meters.

[Monteverdi]

There's a trend you'll find in each class forum. Go to that forum, ask its members 'how is our class doing?' and you'll inevitably find the doom and gloom that you see here. That said, here's my best attempt at a dispassionate reply:

• Frost is lowest on the theoretical max DPS charts and is, in my mind, a very un-fun spec to play. It lost much of its luster in 7.0 and didn't gain much back via its artifact.
• Unholy is the most fun it's been since the snapshotting/festerblight days. It's on the lower end as far as theoretical DPS goes, but you'll have a blast while playing it.
• Blood DK is, if played right, one of, if not the best 5-man tanks. They bring great DPS (both AoE and single target), strong self sustain (they aren't independent though), and unparalled control over the battlefield. The reports of our demise are greatly exaggerated.

[Dristereau]

Thought I'd jump in on this;

Frost is pretty poor right now. It's ST is lacking compared to UH and UH has some amazing burst. It's not really got much going for it in PVP either right now, nothing that really makes it feel worth playing. Even the Artifact core ability is garbage and looks horrendous.

Unholy is strong ST and AoE is amazing, lovely workings with Death and Decay, it feels fun to play with empowering your Ghouls, Apocalypse is a very cool ability and the diseases are cool.

Blood is very simplified compared to what we've experienced with the class before. Bone Shield is baked into Marrowrend, Death Strike requires RP instead of Runes. I still strongly dislike the changes, and have little I can really say I actually like more than WoD besides Heart Strike in Melee. I feel less in control of my destiny now as Blood than before, but I think that's the case in general with most tanks.

I don't think the Class has improved overall since WoD. I think that Unholy is a step in the right direction, from the theme, the playstyle and the overall enjoyment. Frost has lost it somewhat, particularly for me does it feel less enjoyable. My thoughts on Blood are simple, it was much better in WoD and MoP.

Our mobility is poor. Straight and simple. The only thing we have now is Wraith Walk, which likes to get stuck on terrain. Compared to Death's Advance in WoD and the passive they removed from UH when 7.0 went live, I'm really not a fan.

[Deleted]

Thought I'd jump in on this;

Frost is pretty poor right now. It's ST is lacking compared to UH and UH has some amazing burst. It's not really got much going for it in PVP either right now, nothing that really makes it feel worth playing. Even the Artifact core ability is garbage and looks horrendous.

Unholy is strong ST and AoE is amazing, lovely workings with Death and Decay, it feels fun to play with empowering your Ghouls, Apocalypse is a very cool ability and the diseases are cool.

Blood is very simplified compared to what we've experienced with the class before. Bone Shield is baked into Marrowrend, Death Strike requires RP instead of Runes. I still strongly dislike the changes, and have little I can really say I actually like more than WoD besides Heart Strike in Melee. I feel less in control of my destiny now as Blood than before, but I think that's the case in general with most tanks.

I don't think the Class has improved overall since WoD. I think that Unholy is a step in the right direction, from the theme, the playstyle and the overall enjoyment. Frost has lost it somewhat, particularly for me does it feel less enjoyable. My thoughts on Blood are simple, it was much better in WoD and MoP.

Our mobility is poor. Straight and simple. The only thing we have now is Wraith Walk, which likes to get stuck on terrain. Compared to Death's Advance in WoD and the passive they removed from UH when 7.0 went live, I'm really not a fan.

i agree that blood was better in wod cant comment for mop since dint play it. Blood with all it cds and with resolve was lot more fun for me then current state.
And to those people complaining about movement on fights, just take clawing shadows its designed to be used in such situations.

[th0r1369]

Unholy is the most fun it's been since the snapshotting/festerblight days. It's on the lower end as far as theoretical DPS goes, but you'll have a blast while playing it.

I don't know man.. I agree it's fun. Holy balls is it fun! But, it definitely doesn't feel like it's on the lower end. Does it feel Strong? Eh, I feel viable. Do I feel like I'd be picked first in a game of Dodge Ball? Probably not, but I'm definitely one of the first!
That being said, we'll see how well it does with raids. I'll be sure to comment against this and let everyone know my average dps on raid boss fights.

[Monteverdi]

I don't know man.. I agree it's fun. Holy balls is it fun! But, it definitely doesn't feel like it's on the lower end. Does it feel Strong? Eh, I feel viable. Do I feel like I'd be picked first in a game of Dodge Ball? Probably not, but I'm definitely one of the first!
That being said, we'll see how well it does with raids. I'll be sure to comment against this and let everyone know my average dps on raid boss fights.

I'm talking about the theoretical maximum DPS for T19 as suggested by simulationcraft, but you make a great point. You can do well, even with a middle-of-the-road spec if you enjoy and are a skilled player. Theoretical DPS maximums are just that - theoretical.

[blackblade]

(Too bad our class hall fucking sucks)

Having unlocked alll the other class halls, Archeus is fine... Good even. It's one of the few class halls you can mount in, everything is close to the command table except the artifact forge, and you can get there and back with a 1min cooldown (and by extension, dalaran if you're willing to take the long way back)

Compared to paladins: there's 101 doodads between your AK person, your recruiters, and the command table. You need to hearth to dalaran to get there and then fly back regardless, and the artifact forge is eons away in the altar at the end of the underchapel. Also, no mounts. Sure, Archeus is graphically the same as it was in every other expansion (see: the monk hall at the wandering isle) but at least your followers are thematically logical (as opposed to the warrior bossing around dead vrykul because odyn said so) and the class hall storyline is epic and filled with lore figures (see: the demon hunter quest lines, which are filled with very vague, underused (...if not completely made up) demon hunter characters and illidan.)

The overall state of DK's isn't that DK's are weak, but that Rogues, Demon Hunters, Survival Hunters, and WW monks are all very strong ST and AOE at the moment. There's been some targeted nerfs to DH and WW AoE, but DK's are still pretty far behind unless there's a situation where there's a sustained, clustered AOE happening.

[Zandalariprelate]

Thanks for the positive and constructive answer, i saw today the dk is not bad compared to warlocks in damage and except with the first boss in nightmare, I saw many dk with a great damage in many fights, but lets see the numbers in the next weeks, acherus and the campaing are very good with new textures and a great story with the four horsemen while we see old faces like salanar, hulm highmountain, the baron and koltira the only thing i didnt like is the whole SPOILERS: assault of the chapel and slaying one of us most closed allies during the war in nothrend and Liadrin being a questgiver important in 7.1 which she wouldnt mention from the attack we did....yeah kinda put me back with that thing

[0verdose]

Cleared the first four in EN and can say this, 850+ demon hunters blow us out of the water in every aspect of dps. Don't feel bad if you get out dpsed by the spec because it is simply just more superior. There is a lot of movement, and us having low mobility certainly hurts our dps if the dk doesn't have raid awareness and timing down. I did decent dps st and very good cleave/aoe in all of the fights/trash. Never falling below 220k+ for the encounters I did complete.

[mmimzie]

Have you seen most of the EN fights yet? Melees need to move a ton on every boss and with our mobility we'll have much more downtime than any other melee dps. Combine that with our subpar single target damage and you'll soon realize that you're sitting at the bottom of the meters.

This statement is silly becuause the amount of movement you actualy have to do are a few back and forth side steps. you dont need a 60% speed boost every 15 seconds to hold a+w or d+w for 3 seconds. This kind of silly stuff.... v.v

As far as blood tank as thats really all i do. Did some fights with a paladin of similar gear. We either took the same amount of damage-mitigation or i took less. Damage wise more often then not i did more damage, but his damage seemed to have a higher threat modifier than mine. BTW Purgatory is bad unless your raid has 3 or more healers.