Tulsa Polic Shoot Unarmed Black Man with Hands Up.

[Taneras]

1. Its your link. It shows the time she called in that Cutcher wasn't showing his hands and then when Tyler, Dunn, and the other officer showed up. So we have nearly two minutes where Shelby claims that Cutcher was non-compliant yet is completely compliant when everyone else shows up?

I've already answered this question. It's perfectly plausable for someone to refuse to listen to a female police officer, then start to when they hear multiple sirens approaching and have a helicopter overhead.

2. The link clearly says that he was on the ground at 7:44:13 and that Shots Fired was reported just 7 seconds later. If you're making the argument that they don't report the shots being fired until moments later...then it means that Shelby fired on Cutcher even sooner than the seven second mark. Keeping in mind that at this point Cutcher is now surrounded by all four officers.

I'm willing to bet that the single shot fired was within a second or two after being tazed. Obviously both tazers and guns were drawn. If a suspect makes a threatening move, officers with their tazer drawn probably won't want to take the 2-3 seconds or so to drop their tazer and draw and shoot their gun. If the suspect makes a threatening move, or at least a move that the police perceive to be a threatening move, I don't think its outlandish for both guns and tazers to be discharged at nearly the same time.

There very well could be something to what you're saying, but there isn't something necessarily to what you're saying. There are scenarios where both would be discharged and that be the proper reaction.

3. They called for more officers because Shelby claimed that it was a dangerous situation. It's hard to believe that while she was alone she did not feel her life in danger enough to do anything yet when the other three officers have shown up and have Cutcher surrounded she opens fire.

Or you could flip it around and say that she saw something that caused her to shoot despite having other officers there with her.

I don't think you can gleam anything either way from that.

- - - Updated - - -

The guy was high on PCP, no wonder they where suspicious of him.

Source please?

[Daerio]

There's no way the cop is going to be charged with anything, let alone murder. It didn't happen in South Carolina. Nobody else seems to give a shit about prosecuting their police officers. It won't happen.

I don't think cops should regularly be killing people like this, but this isn't the most clear-cut case in recent history either.

[Zomis]

I've already answered this question. It's perfectly plausable for someone to refuse to listen to a female police officer, then start to when they hear multiple sirens approaching and have a helicopter overhead.



I'm willing to bet that the single shot fired was within a second or two after being tazed. Obviously both tazers and guns were drawn. If a suspect makes a threatening move, officers with their tazer drawn probably won't want to take the 2-3 seconds or so to drop their tazer and draw and shoot their gun. If the suspect makes a threatening move, or at least a move that the police perceive to be a threatening move, I don't think its outlandish for both guns and tazers to be discharged at nearly the same time.

There very well could be something to what you're saying, but there isn't something necessarily to what you're saying. There are scenarios where both would be discharged and that be the proper reaction.



Or you could flip it around and say that she saw something that caused her to shoot despite having other officers there with her.

I don't think you can gleam anything either way from that.

- - - Updated - - -



Source please?

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...ly-man-n651436

[Taneras]

Tulsa police confirmed a vial of PCP was found in the vehicle Crutcher was driving.

- http://www.fox23.com/news/the-latest...ting/447988901

Interesting. Would explain the 911 call where a witness reported someone running from an SUV screaming that it was about to blow up...

Again, shame on all you people who immediately called Shelby a murderer. She very well might be, but its wise to wait until all the evidence comes in.

[Daerio]

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...ly-man-n651436

So if they test his body and find no PCP in his blood stream, (which they may not even do, because ambiguity here favors the police) is it then more likely that the officers planted it, or that he just didn't have a chance to do the drugs yet?

[Orange Joe]

I watched the video. The article was on a sketchy site. But it did look like he was reaching into the vehicle. Will have to wait until more info is available. Justice should be served accordingly.

Window was shut. You can see this from helicopters view. The cops would have been able to see this also.

[Captain N]

I've already answered this question. It's perfectly plausable for someone to refuse to listen to a female police officer, then start to when they hear multiple sirens approaching and have a helicopter overhead.



I'm willing to bet that the single shot fired was within a second or two after being tazed. Obviously both tazers and guns were drawn. If a suspect makes a threatening move, officers with their tazer drawn probably won't want to take the 2-3 seconds or so to drop their tazer and draw and shoot their gun. If the suspect makes a threatening move, or at least a move that the police perceive to be a threatening move, I don't think its outlandish for both guns and tazers to be discharged at nearly the same time.

There very well could be something to what you're saying, but there isn't something necessarily to what you're saying. There are scenarios where both would be discharged and that be the proper reaction.



Or you could flip it around and say that she saw something that caused her to shoot despite having other officers there with her.

I don't think you can gleam anything either way from that.

1. Which means that Crutcher is no longer a threat to himself or to any of the officers. At this point Shelby should have put her gun away, but instead continued to have it trained on him.

2. Officer Tyler was able to draw his taser at this point knowing full well that there was no immediate threat to himself, his co-workers, and that Crutcher was not a threat to himself when he arrived. Shelby still has her gun drawn even with the arrival of three other officers.

3. There's nothing she could have seen that caused her to shoot unless she's suffering from hallucinations. We know that there was no weapon on Crutcher and that the only thing he was guilty of is not following Shelby's orders for a 90 second period before the arrival of her back up. You'll have to show me where Crutcher made any threatening moves towards any of the officers to use this line of reasoning.

If as you claim that the tazer and gun were fired simultaneously then the whole thing is on Shelby for escalating the situation from the get-go.

[Orange Joe]

The problem is social media. Social media in the black community will say that this man was innocent and shot down like a dog. They won't point out that he wasn't following police orders. A thousand miles away some militant black man will read this, decide he's feeling a little suicidal anyways, get his gun and go shoot some cops.

ISIS using social media has motivated terrorist attacks in the West.

Police officers have to be brave, you can't just shoot. It appears the woman officer fired when she heard the taser go off, the taser makes a loud bang sound cause it has two small explosive charges. She's too jumpy, nervous for the job and she should've been screened out during recruitment.

Black people need to calm down.

What are you basing this off of? The police statement? The one that also said he did NOT have his hands up? The same one that has already been proven false?

[Taneras]

1. Which means that Crutcher is no longer a threat to himself or to any of the officers. At this point Shelby should have put her gun away, but instead continued to have it trained on him.

Just because the Helicopter reports he's obeying commands doesn't mean he can't disobey them seconds later.

2. Officer Tyler was able to draw his taser at this point knowing full well that there was no immediate threat to himself, his co-workers, and that Crutcher was not a threat to himself when he arrived. Shelby still has her gun drawn even with the arrival of three other officers.

Seeing as what a reasonable threat is subjective and will differ for each person, its not surprising to see situations that straddle the line, and see different cops react differently.

3. There's nothing she could have seen that caused her to shoot unless she's suffering from hallucinations. We know that there was no weapon on Crutcher and that the only thing he was guilty of is not following Shelby's orders for a 90 second period before the arrival of her back up. You'll have to show me where Crutcher made any threatening moves towards any of the officers to use this line of reasoning.

Considering the helicopter's view was blocked be trees and the SUV, and the dashcam was blocked by the 3-4 police officers, how can you say any of that?

If as you claim that the tazer and gun were fired simultaneously then the whole thing is on Shelby for escalating the situation from the get-go.

No. Do you think that you can show 10 cops thousands of different situations and they'll all respond, every single time, the exact same way with regards to which device to pull out?

[Poopymonster]

Black Lives Matter was founded for the unethical treatment of African Americans in America. Does that sound like a hate group to you?
Meanwhile, A Radical Islamic Terrorist injures 29 with a bomb, injures police in a shootout and gets shot twice and gets arrested. Whom should have died? The Church going Tulsa man or the terrorist?

You overlook that the Islamic terrorist also was a church going individual. And probably a lot more devout about it than the Tulsa man.

[the game]

So if they test his body and find no PCP in his blood stream, (which they may not even do, because ambiguity here favors the police) is it then more likely that the officers planted it, or that he just didn't have a chance to do the drugs yet?

Pretty sure it's standard procedure for the coroner to test for drugs and alcohol.

[PACOX]

You overlook that the Islamic terrorist also was a church going individual. And probably a lot more devout about it than the Tulsa man.

Since you want to bring up the terrorist, he wasn't killed in a shoot out but an unarmed man was killed for touching his window?

And people we have some serious issues to address with our police department. I don't care if he was PCP or smoked 5 blunts, the officer messed up.

[RickJamesLich]

People who make excuses for totalitarian polices are the same ones who never find themselves one the receiving end of it.

Yeah, because they don't provoke the cops lol.

[Poopymonster]

Since you want to bring up the terrorist, he wasn't killed in a shoot out but an unarmed man was killed for touching his window?

And people we have some serious issues to address with our police department. I don't care if he was PCP or smoked 5 blunts, the officer messed up.

Look at what I was quoting.

I was quoting someone compared who should have died, and tried to make the Tulsa man look like he was a better person because he was a church goer.

I was pointing out that the terrorist in question probably attended church too, and was a lot more devout to his religion.

[Daerio]

Pretty sure it's standard procedure for the coroner to test for drugs and alcohol.

Yet we constantly see cases like this where the tests are either never completed, botched on purpose, or unreleased to the public.

The fact that they found a vial of drugs in his van after he was killed is enough to cast doubt, no test beyond that is necessary - especially if it isn't going to find drugs.

[Polyxo]

Yet we constantly see cases like this where the tests are either never completed, botched on purpose, or unreleased to the public.

The fact that they found a vial of drugs in his van after he was killed is enough to cast doubt, no test beyond that is necessary - especially if it isn't going to find drugs.

[Taneras]

Since you want to bring up the terrorist, he wasn't killed in a shoot out but an unarmed man was killed for touching his window?

So, is the narrative now that cops hate our own citizens more then terrorists?

And people we have some serious issues to address with our police department. I don't care if he was PCP or smoked 5 blunts, the officer messed up.

Perhaps, but I don't think any of us can say with any certainty that that's the case here with so much evidence unknown. Neither of the videos show exactly what happened 2-3 seconds before the shot was fired, which would be the most important time frame prior to a police shooting. We can at least see that his right arm wasn't in the air. What did that arm do to prompt that officer to shoot? We will have to wait for the hearing to hear her side of the story.

[PizzaSHARK]

Rewatch the video, at the 28 second mark you can see his right arm drop down, as the helicopter pans around you can see his hand infront of his white shirt, about waist level. His arm remains down until the 34 second mark, possibly longer but we can't tell because the vehicle/trees are in the way. By the 38 second mark he's starting to fall.

If police have guns and tazers drawn, and someone is ignoring police instruction and reaching around their waste, isn't that enough for police to reasonable suspect he might be reaching for a weapon?

Sure, and that's why he got tased... among other reasons. There was still absolutely no reason to shoot him.

[Jinpachi]

Where's the dashcam footage of the first car on the scene? For fuck's sake there's no fucking context in any of these released videos. All we see is the aftermath. Nobody could see from the chopper footage or the second car what he was doing by his vehicle. was he or wasnt he reaching in for something. It looked like he was getting in his pants for a second, could have been innocent, we dont know because we dont KNOW WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED WHEN THE FIRST OFFICER GOT THERE. Stop shitposting with this bait bullshit.

- - - Updated - - -

Until i see some dashcam footage from the first car, im gonna call this video a mastercrafted piece of fuckery. Gonna put my tinfoil hat on and say this shit is fabricated to fuel the tension more. never saw the guy's face in the video, i personally didnt hear any gunshots in it, but everyone is jumping on whatever side they normally jump on whenever some shit like this goes down. just because there's a video of it doesnt make it true.

[Shibito]

And the riots have started, hopefully they dont destroy their own neighbourhoods this time.