Britain will veto EU army, says Defence Secretary

[Wikiy]

This is the correct attitude. Well done.

I think he's being sarcastic. That last sentence has me on the fence.

[Vargur]

Well, that isn't completely true either. There are continuously rumors of a second referendum or the delay for a remain election platform. Let's hope for everyone's sake, especially the common people in the UK, that that'll be the case.

Well still, https://goo.gl/ZQIO7G

[Ghostpanther]

Good to see the Brits using some resolve and common sense. Stand firm!

[Dentelan]

I'm going to steal Robert Baratheon's five vs. one analogy for this one. One closed fist is stronger than five fingers. As to knowing what real war is or isn't. The US has engaged far more near peer enemies in the last half century than Russia has. All of that is besides the point however. War is inevitable, no matter where you are or who you are. So long as Russia and Europe have competing interests, the potential for conflict between them exists. The scale of the conflict will be proportional to the stakes involved. Pretending we are in a post-conflict world is just foolhardy.

I was trying to say that real war is on your own territory. There is dramatically big difference between sending your troops on other side of the ocean, and fight on your own territory, when thousands and millions civilians are dying, this is what usa dont know. We are surely not in post conflict world, i just believe in nuclear weapons. Nuclear states will never have war against each other, there is no such idiots in any government.

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This is horseshit, if you look at the recent escapades from Russia... never have a big war? Russia just needs to spit on the wrong kind of grass and things take on a whole momentum all on their own very quickly and violently. It's exactly your kind of thinking that enables idiots like Putin to just go and grab large chunks of countries. It's that kind of "Oh, he won't go further than this" thinking that enabled Hitler to start a world war.

Never let things like "Surely they won't go to war" lull you into a feeling of peace when there is plenty of evidence telling you with big red warning signs that things are not alright at all.

If yoy are saying about Crimea (grab large chunks), we did learned it from the western countires. Let me explain
Kosovo: Parliament of Kosovo made decision that kosovo is independent state. World accepted that.
Crimea: Parliament of Crimea made decision that Crimea is independent state + they had referendum. World did not accepted that (what hypocrites!)
So, in this case our postion is almost perfect, you just must accept that others can play using your own rules.
But nvm, i dont believe in war between nuclear states.

[Ulmita]

If you read the above, I said all things considered it's unlikely to be in Germany's interest. Certainly in the immediate to mid term anyway. I also say that the Euro would still remain higher than the Drachma - but the relative value of both curriencies, the new devalued Euro and the new Drachma, may lead to such devaluation. Moreover Greece would likely find it easier to pay back money owed, in no small part to the economic boost of using a non-overvalued currency.

Greece can never repay that debt and that is that. In 2016 despite all the reforms, the debt increased by 7 billions. There has to be some kind of restructure or plain cut.

[Stelio Kontos]

Good on the UK.

When Brexit passed, Brussels made it clear in the media that until the two year exit window has ended, the UK is still a member and must live up to all of its responsibilities.

Well, that also means they get to exercise their rights as well until the exit happens.

[Slant]

I think he's being sarcastic. That last sentence has me on the fence.

I'll take it anyway. Not my fault that he's failing at sarcasm.

[caervek]

In 2016 despite all the reforms, the debt increased by 7 billions.

When a country is in deficit it costs more to run the country than it takes in in tax/etc and so it has to loan money (creating debt), this means that every year the debt will go up even if things are getting better. I.E in the UK our deficit has been halved by the Tories since they took over in 2010 but idiots moan because the debt's still going up.

[Slant]

If yoy are saying about Crimea (grab large chunks), we did learned it from the western countires. Let me explain
Kosovo: Parliament of Kosovo made decision that kosovo is independent state. World accepted that.
Crimea: Parliament of Crimea made decision that Crimea is independent state + they had referendum. World did not accepted that (what hypocrites!)
So, in this case our postion is almost perfect, you just must accept that others can play using your own rules.
But nvm, i dont believe in war between nuclear states.

I like how Russian propaganda still works in that you guys actually believe those situations are comparable. Kosovo was an entirely different thing to Crimea. After over 20 years without officially being communists, how can you still not fathom how democracy works? Hint: Holding polls at gunpoint is not how you do it.

[Hyve]

That's like breaking up with your partner, refusing to leave the house and then wanting a say in what's for dinner.

Dear Britain,
You left. Shut the fuck up.

It's more like having a divorce, and while the proceedings are on-going you still have a right to discuss / have a say on the House. We're not out, we're leaving. We still have full right to our Veto.

Also, are you saying then that you agree with an EU Army? Or is this just a chance for you to slap the UK?

On-Topic: EU Army is a fuck up. Honestly, it was one of the things that was spoken about pre-Brexit and everyone was like; "Nahh... that's never going to happen". They're doing this because they know that without some 'World Military Power Department' they could collapse a lot sooner than expected.

[Ulmita]

When a country is in deficit it costs more to run the country than it takes in in tax/etc and so it has to loan money (creating debt), this means that every year the debt will go up even if things are getting better. I.E in the UK our deficit has been halved by the Tories since they took over in 2010 but idiots moan because the debt's still going up.

But the plan is to drop debt from 180% to less than 120%. If it keeps rising, that target will never be reached.
The German plan for reforms aint working at all.

[Deleted]

And who would lead that army I wonder.

If it's Brussel, then I am a 100% against it.

[Deleted]

It's more like having a divorce, and while the proceedings are on-going you still have a right to discuss / have a say on the House. We're not out, we're leaving. We still have full right to our Veto.

It's terrible diplomacy though. You're leaving anyway, the best thing to do would to let the EU create its army and come to an agreement that the UK stays out of it, because obviously the UK doesn't want to be part of that deal, anyone could tell you that. What it's doing right now however is determining the future of other countries. The UK is digging its own grave by deliberately creating hostile relations between it and its largest trading partner, and for what reason? The petty belief that the UK still means something in this world?

The worst part is that I understand why Russia is doing the things it does. They're ultimately stupid and rash decisions, but understandable when you look at Russian history. But the decisions that the UK has been making recently leaves me flabbergasted. It's, how to put it, fucking stupid on every level.

[Hyve]

It's terrible diplomacy though. You're leaving anyway, the best thing to do would to let the EU create its army and come to an agreement that the UK stays out of it, because obviously the UK doesn't want to be part of that deal, anyone could tell you that. What it's doing right now however is determining the future of other countries. The UK is digging its own grave by deliberately creating hostile relations between it and its largest trading partner, and for what reason? The petty belief that the UK still means something in this world?

The worst part is that I understand why Russia is doing the things it does. They're ultimately stupid and rash decisions, but understandable when you look at Russian history. But the decisions that the UK has been making recently leaves me flabbergasted. It's, how to put it, fucking stupid on every level.

It's incredibly smart diplomacy from our point of view though. We're still part of the EU, we've not triggered Article 50, and, we may never. Albeit we will, you need to understand that until we agree to leave with the EU, there is literally no difference in day to day operations within the EU revolving around the UK. We don't want to allow a EU Army, we're part of the EU, we're going to Veto.

It's not about being childish or immature. Leaving the EU would take 2 years from Article 50 being activated. During that time, we're not going to want to allow, let alone help fund a EU Army. It's not about "Give us what we want, or we'll stay in and Veto everything" at all, and some people here seem to think that's the stance we've taken.

[Wikiy]

Well, the US is almost about to vote Trump into office so don't cheer too soon...

I don't believe even Trump is that idiotic. Not even Kim Jong-un is that idiotic.

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And who would lead that army I wonder.

If it's Brussel, then I am a 100% against it.

I really don't understand what this ethereal "Brussels" talk is supposed to mean? The EU army would be under the direct command of either the EU Commissioner (who's probably going to be chosen directly by the people soon) or the joint command of the EU council (all the prime ministers). I.e., there's not going to be any dirty play on democracy involved.

[Deleted]

It's incredibly smart diplomacy from our point of view though. We're still part of the EU, we've not triggered Article 50, and, we may never. Albeit we will, you need to understand that until we agree to leave with the EU, there is literally no difference in day to day operations within the EU revolving around the UK. We don't want to allow a EU Army, we're part of the EU, we're going to Veto.

It's not about being childish or immature. Leaving the EU would take 2 years from Article 50 being activated. During that time, we're not going to want to allow, let alone help fund a EU Army. It's not about "Give us what we want, or we'll stay in and Veto everything" at all, and some people here seem to think that's the stance we've taken.

It is not for the reasons that I just said. Read my post again.

[Deleted]

I don't believe even Trump is that idiotic. Not even Kim Jong-un is that idiotic.

He literally asked "why can't we use nuclear weapons". Three times.

I remain optimistic. I don't believe Trump will use nuclear weapons and even if he wanted to someone will prevent him. But then again, we shouldn't have to be worried that the US president uses a nuclear weapon in the first place...

[Deleted]

What a disgusting, pathetic and untrue thing to say.

Over 176,000 US servicemen died fighting for our freedom during WWII,

No they died to stop an Eurasian hegemon from winning the war.

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If you would have preferred "...than never" to "better late...", and the Third Reich, could have just said so at the time.

I would have preferred Never - As in not in WW1.

[Hyve]

It is not for the reasons that I just said. Read my post again.

It is incredibly smart diplomacy. I read your post, you're jumping to the conclusion that we'd otherwise support this if we voted Remain. We're still part of Europe, and will be until we enact Article 50. We could do that now, or in 100 years, there is no expiry date on the decision. Therefore, while we're part of the EU, we still hold all the rights we had before the referendum, because it changes nothing until we enact the Article.

You don't need a referendum to enact Article 50. Any country could start that right now if they wanted, but you don't prevent them from using their votes / rights within the EU? Why would it be any different for the UK? We've not left, we still have our vote, our veto and our rights. I agree with them blocking it, as between the vote for the EU Army, and Article 50 going live, we'd still have to contribute towards it.

EU Army is a bullshit attempt to prevent their collapse anyway. We've got NATO, the UN and so many other systems in place to allow for 'World Police'. Why do we need another ...

[Dentelan]

I like how Russian propaganda still works in that you guys actually believe those situations are comparable. Kosovo was an entirely different thing to Crimea. After over 20 years without officially being communists, how can you still not fathom how democracy works? Hint: Holding polls at gunpoint is not how you do it.

What does it change?! Kosovo didnt even had any kind of referendum! there was only parliaments decision that Kosovo from now is independent state. Ofcourse situation in Kosovo and Crimea were different, but only in details that doesnt change main point. I like how you guys do it, you see only small details that are different in those two situations, but dont see the main ones that are same.
"Hey! Parliament of kosovo decided to be independent state just because. Let them be. Hey parliament of Crimea decided to be independent state after REVULUTION THEY DONT ACCEPT. Fuck them because we decide what is legal and what is not lulz" You can even forget about referendum, it doesnt change anything, just accept the fact that all this situation is freaking double standards. We are playing your fucking rules so stop crying and being hypocrite.
Damn my ass burn when all i read is "russian propaganda still bla bla". There is anywhere propaganda, abso fucking lutely. You just need to learn identify it, in western media and in russian one, they all try to shit in ur brains, but still 60-70% is true.