[BREWMASTER] 7.X Discussion Thread

[Lodion]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...3&metric=ehrps

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...3&metric=ehrps

Doesn't mean much of anything right now with such a small sample set. But I think we can all agree that stealing Guard and giving it to warriors was a mistake.

[Grumchuck]

Look at how few monk tanks there are compared to the others. Wow.

Note that if you look at the same metric, but heroic bosses, monks become middle of the pack.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...0&metric=ehrps

[Hobbs]

Look at how few monk tanks there are compared to the others. Wow.

Note that if you look at the same metric, but heroic bosses, monks become middle of the pack.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...0&metric=ehrps

This is really interesting. I'm curious to see if we become the best or near it for mythic content.

The person asked earlier but I would also really like to know if stagger affects the spear on Cenarius. Our first raid's tonight and that would be handy. Will zen med it anyway but would be a useful piece of information when mythic rolls around.

[Julmara]

my voids where very small just with ironskin brew i gues its 100% works against the spear
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ability=214529
my spears vs the spears of my co dk tank ( he was brain afk he though he didnt have the boss everytime i called for a taunt after my spear and he taunted lol)
i took 4 he took 3 used the big brew for the first spear (forgot the name in english) and zen med for the second one for the other none but it seemed not realy a difference @Hobbs

[The Madgod]

Well okay you seem to value BoS over everything else, even KS then that kind of makes sense, then again in a real world scenario I would not do that.

Once you start to use BoS EVERY second global you will even loose some KS. No matter the haste your rotation should never do more than 2 BoS every KS.

So your theoretical example will at somepoint turn to BoS->KS->BoS->Filler->BoS->Filler-> at this point BoS and KS are ready but it will "choose" the BoS over the KS

Your assumptions are pretty far out in left-field, mate.

I don't value BoS over everything else. I showed you a calculation of the general point where if you somehow play perfectly with no loss of CD's or GCD's, where you will encounter your GCD cap based on haste and an average window. Don't make assumptions more deep than that.

If you want to argue it isn't entirely practical, I would be the first to say that you would arguably see GCD capping earlier than that point as the number of ability uses can never possibly be anything other than an integer. So sometimes you might see 7 BoS in a 15 second window, sometimes 8, in the theoretical world. And because of the priority, certain abilities will have less uses (e.g. BoS due to KS' higher priority), so that messes with it as well. Despite that, it's a viable means of finding the rough point where you don't want more haste.

A bit of your language is coming across as explanatory of the process and of the spec, as if you were explaining it to someone new. You're not talking to someone who's freshly become a Brewmaster.

[arcuro]

found a post on the US forum with some, for my understanding, interresting logs. sadly im not that good at reading logs but maybe its a good source for more skilled theorycrafter, log reader?

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749305202

[Deleted]

Well its a discussion in a public forum, so not everything is addressed exclusively to you.

But to conclude this discussion (which is kind of irrelevant really). My example roation I posted does work, but only does 6 out of the theoretical possible 8 BoS due to priority of KS>BoS, while your theoretical implementation acts like this does (in a theoretical world) not happen so it spits out "you missed 2 gcds, lower your haste".

Different approach, different result because of a different level of application. But i believe we can agree that you should just stop stacking haste after 30% since it starts to loose benefit really fast and 33% (KS every 6th global) is the last spot where it plays well AND does not cap GCDs

[keqe]

Completed 7/7 HC in a split raid with my monk. Even tanked xavius with the 150% damage taken debuff for a while because mismanaged the timing on boss buff. I Felt stagger was very strong there. Overall felt much more safe with my monk than on my DH.

Funny things I noticed:

The Ilgynoth tentacle channel doesn't consume mastery so you can turn your back to it to get 100% dodge and dodge the whole channel.

Xavius tank trinket says the debuff stacks but doesn't refresh duration. It does refresh duration, but stacks quite slowly. It is capped at 15 stacks. (22.80% at HC). So eventually permanent 22.80% reduce as long as the mob hits you once every 20 seconds. Probably going to get fixed though.

[Grumchuck]

This is really interesting. I'm curious to see if we become the best or near it for mythic content.

The person asked earlier but I would also really like to know if stagger affects the spear on Cenarius. Our first raid's tonight and that would be handy. Will zen med it anyway but would be a useful piece of information when mythic rolls around.

Here are logs entries from our Cenarius (normal) kill. It seems that you can stagger the spear.

Time
Event

00:04:28.662 Cenarius Spear of Nightmares Brewbalz 356085 (A: 2017811)

00:04:46.932 Cenarius Spear of Nightmares Brewbalz 720947 (A: 4085361)

00:05:24.499 Cenarius Spear of Nightmares Brewbalz 359264 (A: 2035824)

00:06:05.881 Cenarius Spear of Nightmares Brewbalz 371443 (A: 2104839)

[Daggerd]

The Ilgynoth tentacle channel doesn't consume mastery so you can turn your back to it to get 100% dodge and dodge the whole channel.

This seems like a really big deal? Did you just turn your back 5ish seconds before the channel was due to start?

[arcuro]

do you use agi or stamina flask? guess stamina could be worth this time

[Daggerd]

do you use agi or stamina flask? guess stamina could be worth this time

I would say it depends on what you are doing. Brewmaster, historically, has never really been a class where I've seen people recommend stamina flasks (or gems/enchants/food) unless you absolutely need every ounce of effective health and raw HP you can possibly get. Those types of situations usually entail mythic progression but even then have tended to be pretty specific situations or extremely undergeared progression instead of general use. We do gain a small amount of dodge from agility and our primary source of self sustain scales off of attack power, so the agility flask does have defensive uses while also increasing our offensive power. We will also ALWAYS benefit from extra agility, whereas you will only truly benefit from the stamina flask if that extra ~220k health gained would have saved you from a situation you otherwise would have died.

[arcuro]

not one change for us, well since they dont do mechanic changes it was maybe expacted? at least some rage nerf for prots

another topic. did you notic the massive slap in out face with the order hall upgrade tier 4 upgrade Path of the ox?
Our adepts, our apprentices, our little pa(n)dawans are trained to use GUARD. and we as the leader of the monk class have it only as pvp talent ): it makes me sad anytime i see this

[Julmara]

lol i was actualy hoping some of the many trash traits are gonne get a buff ... looke like we gonna keep the trash on our backs for a while longer :/

[Langbardr]

Hey guys, is it really worth to cap haste at 30% ? I'm actually at 28% and I really struggle to avoid capping my energy at 100. It's never goes below 50, and I wasting energy too often. It's a bit better on a raid build without Rushing jade Wind, but still, I always been a fan of high energy regen but here I just can't manage it.

What should I do, drop some haste ? spamming TP ?

[Seldoncrisis]

Hey guys, is it really worth to cap haste at 30% ? I'm actually at 28% and I really struggle to avoid capping my energy at 100. It's never goes below 50, and I wasting energy too often. It's a bit better on a raid build without Rushing jade Wind, but still, I always been a fan of high energy regen but here I just can't manage it.

What should I do, drop some haste ? spamming TP ?

Does capping energy even matter since you basically only use it to keg smash on cooldown and throw some tiger palm fillers in?
It's not like we can convert it into combo points anymore.

[Xahz]

Does capping energy even matter since you basically only use it to keg smash on cooldown and throw some tiger palm fillers in?
It's not like we can convert it into combo points anymore.

It's converted into brew charges, and if you had infinite energy you would probably never use BoS since it doesn't actually do anything other than damage and a small autoattack debuff. Tiger Palm isn't the filler, BoS is. I run about 22% haste right now and I don't think I use BoS at all during lust.

Hey guys, is it really worth to cap haste at 30% ? I'm actually at 28% and I really struggle to avoid capping my energy at 100. It's never goes below 50, and I wasting energy too often. It's a bit better on a raid build without Rushing jade Wind, but still, I always been a fan of high energy regen but here I just can't manage it.

What should I do, drop some haste ? spamming TP ?

28% haste with HT is likely too much. If you're using BoC/ED you really shouldn't be energy capping outside of lust. Regardless, TP is your energy dump; if you have 100 energy and Keg Smash is on CD then you should be using TP.

[Seldoncrisis]

It's converted into brew charges, and if you had infinite energy you would probably never use BoS since it doesn't actually do anything other than damage and a small autoattack debuff. Tiger Palm isn't the filler, BoS is. I run about 22% haste right now and I don't think I use BoS at all during lust.

But I mean, which button could you hit at energy cap that's the "wrong" button? BoS is basically the only thing that comes to mind, and even that has a cooldown.

Like, in a 6 second keg smash rotation, you will use one BoS for the KS, and 2 BoS you could replace with tiger palms if you had infinite energy. One of those BoS is probably to lower the cooldown of BoF for uptime on the %damage debuff, and OK I'll give you the other BoS since it only gives tiger palm more damage. So you miss out on probably 1 second(maybe 2?) of cooldown reduction on your brews in each 6 sec rotation.

How many more brews per fight is that even? 1 extra brew in a 2 min fight? Compared to how much damage lost by not using BoS?

[Xahz]

But I mean, which button could you hit at energy cap that's the "wrong" button? BoS is basically the only thing that comes to mind, and even that has a cooldown.

Like, in a 6 second keg smash rotation, you will use one BoS for the KS, and 2 BoS you could replace with tiger palms if you had infinite energy. One of those BoS is probably to lower the cooldown of BoF for uptime on the %damage debuff, and OK I'll give you the other BoS since it only gives tiger palm more damage. So you miss out on probably 1 second(maybe 2?) of cooldown reduction on your brews in each 6 sec rotation.

How many more brews per fight is that even? 1 extra brew in a 2 min fight? Compared to how much damage lost by not using BoS?

Why are you assuming that everyone is taking BoC? Tiger's Palm with 3/3 Face Palm does a little under half the damage of BoS with Obsidian Fists but shaves an average of 1.3 seconds off your brews. Since BoS has a base 3 second cooldown, if you had infinite energy you could use 1 extra Tiger's Palm for every BoS. By using Tiger's Palm, you would have done about half the damage while also getting 1.3 second cooldown reduction. Since you don't have infinite energy, if you are routinely capping energy you should be using Tiger's Palm to dump and just omit BoS until you're low enough that you won't go over the energy cap during the BoS GCD.

Obvious BoC complicates things by forcing BoS into your rotation even if you are energy capped. In that situation you would be deciding between Tiger's Palm x2 for 1.3 seconds off your brews, or BoS + Tiger's palm for triple the damage. As far as I'm concerned, if you're taking BoC you're probably doing so for the extra damage since that's the major advantage it has over the other talents in the tier, but it is most likely a small survivability loss unless you have a bunch of Dark Side of the Moon relics or something.

[Seldoncrisis]

Why are you assuming that everyone is taking BoC? Tiger's Palm with 3/3 Face Palm does a little under half the damage of BoS with Obsidian Fists but shaves an average of 1.3 seconds off your brews. Since BoS has a base 3 second cooldown, if you had infinite energy you could use 1 extra Tiger's Palm for every BoS. By using Tiger's Palm, you would have done about half the damage while also getting 1.3 second cooldown reduction. Since you don't have infinite energy, if you are routinely capping energy you should be using Tiger's Palm to dump and just omit BoS until you're low enough that you won't go over the energy cap during the BoS GCD.

Obvious BoC complicates things by forcing BoS into your rotation even if you are energy capped. In that situation you would be deciding between Tiger's Palm x2 for 1.3 seconds off your brews, or BoS + Tiger's palm for triple the damage. As far as I'm concerned, if you're taking BoC you're probably doing so for the extra damage since that's the major advantage it has over the other talents in the tier, but it is most likely a small survivability loss unless you have a bunch of Dark Side of the Moon relics or something.

Fair enough. If you're just looking at survivability and/or aren't using BoC then it does change things. I guess what I'm trying to get at is that for survivability, I feel like choosing which of your brews to use and the timing of when to use them probably dwarfs the importance of min/maxing around not capping on energy and getting extra brews.

I'm not saying that you can't maximize both, but if for example you know a boss is about to do some hard hitting stuff, you're probably not going to mind being capped on brews/energy in anticipation of the incoming damage spike.

I guess another way to put it is, I'd rather think of it as periods of less damage and more damage where you're spending the "less damage" periods recovering and stockpiling your resources(brews/cooldowns/etc) in anticipation of the "more damage" periods.

As far as doing more damage vs. going for a little extra survivability, it can make a difference either way but I think it just depends on the context.