How can people say now that Sylvanas isnt evil ?

[Blasphemous Bearded Owl]

It wouldn't, eyir being alive would be to big a target. If anything sylvanas planned on taking her to helya and do a power transition, getting all the powers of eyir with no burden and ushering a new generation of both valkyr and necromancy all at once.

Got a feeling that Helya wouldn't allow her to gain that much power, she's not stupid. Helya would most likely make a pact with her, perhaps sharing some of her valkyr or whatnot. Making deals with the 'devil' always has some hidden consequences, I am pretty sure Sylvanas would have been thoroughly buttfucked in the end

[Maxilian]

Got a feeling that Helya wouldn't allow her to gain that much power, she's not stupid. Helya would most likely make a pact with her, perhaps sharing some of her valkyr or whatnot. Making deals with the 'devil' always has some hidden consequences, I am pretty sure Sylvanas would have been thoroughly buttfucked in the end

I always assumed that Helya would make Sylvanas use this new found power to help her fight against Odyn

[Combatbutler]

Got a feeling that Helya wouldn't allow her to gain that much power, she's not stupid. Helya would most likely make a pact with her, perhaps sharing some of her valkyr or whatnot. Making deals with the 'devil' always has some hidden consequences, I am pretty sure Sylvanas would have been thoroughly buttfucked in the end

Helya is focused solely on Odyn and how to screw with him, having sylvanas running around with her own Val'kyr might rob Odyn of even more potential candidates it is a win win from her standpoint.

[frogger237]

One of the big issues I've seen in this thread is people focusing solely on the Gilneas/Forsaken argument with regards to Sylvanas being evil. Set aside the fact that they're at war, because no matter which way you look at it, you're going to run into a 'but this' or 'but that'. The focus I would set to justifying the argument of her being evil, is that she is trying to forcefully enslave another being, the Valkyr Queen.

Genn may be out for revenge, and he may have -destroyed- the Forsaken's future, but Sylvanas was trying to literally enslave someone. The big point of their new resurrection crap is to give the dead a choice whether they want to join the Forsaken, or return to death. Raising the dead alone is a horrible atrocity, but she's taking it one step further. I really don't think the Forsaken, honestly, would approve of slavery to justify their own existence, or if they are, then they truly are -evil-; Sylvanas too.

And if you really think about it, shes not doing it to save her race its to save her own ass by making her essentially immortal. She can still obtain new members the old fashioned way.

[Friendlyimmolation]

And if you really think about it, shes not doing it to save her race its to save her own ass by making her essentially immortal. She can still obtain new members the old fashioned way.

She can't do it the old fashioned way if her four Valk die

[Arrashi]

But she wants to serve Odyn

She is brainwashed into wanting to serve Odyn. She needs feminism.

[frogger237]

She can't do it the old fashioned way if her four Valk die

I mean plague.

[Combatbutler]

She is brainwashed into wanting to serve Odyn. She needs feminism.

That is beside the point, Vrykul see serving Odyn in undeath as great honor nowadays.

[Shadowspire]

She is brainwashed into wanting to serve Odyn. She needs feminism.

Funnily enough, helya was murdered, revived and brainwashed into becoming the first valkyr. She probably thinks eyir is in the same boat and assumes if she can free or talk to her she can finish what she started waaaaaaay before wota started.

- - - Updated - - -

That is beside the point, Vrykul see serving Odyn in undeath as great honor nowadays.

But the kvaldir seem happy to serve helya also, it seems both are technically ok but odyn changed an entire culture to despise helya.

[Aquamonkey]

The Game also fails to show us how the actions of the Forsaken are somehow justified in their actions. In Cataclysm, most of the enemies the Forsaken fight during their quests are their victims or the allies of their victims. Slaughtering some Refugees our the Gilneans they attacked without provocation and without them endangering their existence before the conflict, their was never a single moment were I could feel that the Forsakens actions and methods are justified.

Still ignoring that the attack on Gilneas wasn't something the Forsaken wanted to do?

Thats why I say that the Scarlet Crusade should have been Alliance, because an active Scarlet Crusade that acts as the dangerous and fanatic livings and whose evil and sadistic Actions are proberly showen to us on the Forsaken point of view would give their actions some justification.

The Scarlet Crusade attacked the living as well. They were so fanatically crazy they killed anyone who could potentially be Plague carriers.

The Crusaders are intolerant of all non-human races, regardless of alliance or affiliation. They believe that any and all outsiders are potential carriers of the undead plague - and must be destroyed. (Source)

And what they did with the refugees of Hillsbrad is still pretty evil, because hunting down refugees and slaughter them is still a form of unnecessary cruelty.

You would have a point if they fled away from Forsaken territory like the Theramore civilians, but the Hillsbrad people went deeper into Forsaken territory, right into a fortress next to the capital.

She was the first to turn her back on the Light and the first to crawl back. How you would call such a person? Sylvanas is at least consequent. She chose the dark side and is loyal to it.

Yea, how dare she lose faith in the Light for allowing a paladin to wipe out 90% of her people.

[Combatbutler]

But the kvaldir seem happy to serve helya also, it seems both are technically ok but odyn changed an entire culture to despise helya.

Nah Helya managed that hatred on her own, by sending the Kvaldir out to pillage and slaughter, in order to get Vrykul souls for helheim.

[Mehrunes]

I mean plague.

The Forsaken don't have access to the Plague of Undeath.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Eh, I don't want the Forsaken to die out, so I don't view her as evil. Just desperate.

[frogger237]

The Forsaken don't have access to the Plague of Undeath.

Didn't they make the new plague based off it? How can they not have access to it anymore?

[Friendlyimmolation]

I mean plague.

They killed the last Forsaken that was trying to rekindle the plague of undeath

[Mehrunes]

Didn't they make the new plague based off it? How can they not have access to it anymore?

Forsaken Blight reduces everything it affects into a pile of green goo. There's not much left to resurrect afterwards.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Didn't they make the new plague based off it? How can they not have access to it anymore?

They made it with posisons, plants and disease etc. There were quests involving it all the way back in Classic, the culmination of their efforts could be seen being used by traitors at the Wrath Gate. As for the plague of undeath, that was a magical creation controlled by the lich king.

[steelballfc]

All I really read is M-Ra being heavily biased against Sylvanas. I mean, she's not a good gal but jeeze, get over yourself. Alliance had some very rotten apples as well - Genn being one of them.

it's classic from M-Ra
get used to it

[frogger237]

Forsaken Blight reduces everything it affects into a pile of green goo. There's not much left to resurrect afterwards.

I know but I could have sworn it was a modified version of the original.

Yeah just looked it up: http://wow.gamepedia.com/New_Plague

[steelballfc]

Against the trolls in the Troll wars.

adding : they used a f***ing Nuclear weapon with Mages help