Outlaw Rogues - thoughts after first raid night?

[Pinneved]

outlaw needs a golden trait that gives 2+ buffs each roll.

on my logs from last night i rerolled rtb 34 times on the first boss...

[Deleted]

outlaw needs a golden trait that gives 2+ buffs each roll.

on my logs from last night i rerolled rtb 34 times on the first boss...

Then you have to stop rerolling and keep solo shark or perhaps TB to reset the CD on AR.

[Deleted]

Clearing normal went moderately well as Outlaw, sucked on a few bosses, topped DPS on Cenarius thanks to a 6-buff and did okay on a few others.
All in all it feels very unsatisfying to play at a consistent level but have such huge drops in performance thanks to RNG.
Heroic went horrible, after hovering around 12th place for 3 pulls in a row while happily rerolling half of the fight, i got pissed and switched to Assa. Next pull i finished 1st while 25k ahead of 2nd place :/
That is obviously anecdotal and the sample size is way too low to draw any conclusions on the spec's real strength but the problem is that no raider will ever get close to the amount of pulls that a standard simcraft run, normally 10k iterations or higher, does so the deviation from the average damage on simcraft can be huge, be it higher or lower.
Based on the limited amount of data from WCL, it seems like the top 1-5% of assassination and outlaw are reasonably close to each other but if i think about what i have to do to get a high percentile as assa and as outlaw, it becomes clear that it is a lot easier to consistently perform at a high level as assa since i have more control ober my damage.
I'll definitely keep playing Outlaw for any fight with short-lived adds and fast target switching but i'll look into playing Assa for pure ST.

[Kurtwood]

Patchwerk is standard - I do some HelterSkelter Sims, though they are generally less applicable. The most important thing about the Sims are statweights - Versatility remains high, though not always top - Haste tends to sim higher for me on ST right now (Using Alacrity) and Crit sims as my best stat on cleave/aoe

My haste stat weight is 0.91 (normalized) and crit and versatility is 0.6. Feels wrong.

[Deleted]

Not a big fan. Too RNG.

[Geehbee]

Killed Nyth and Dragons heroic last night, was top both fights without legion potions and 805 relics.

Are people not taking alacrity? longer a fight goes the better it gets as far as rerolling with high haste.

[shaunika123]

Gear scaling and the correct relics makes a massive massive difference.

And outlaw's main competition seems to be mages.

have you seen how nuts shadowpriests are?

[elfporn]

have you seen how nuts shadowpriests are?

Dont have any in my group

[Sephiroso]

My haste stat weight is 0.91 (normalized) and crit and versatility is 0.6. Feels wrong.

Sounds wrong, whats your characters name/server?

[Banthare]

have you seen how nuts shadowpriests are?

I suppose you can say they're insane

[asapeazy]

Dunno why people are complaining about RNG of RtB. Knowing when to stick with buffs and when to reroll is what seperates a good outlaw from bad. That being said i cleared normal and some heroic and i was top 3, with all of our dps over 200k. Usually hover around 215k.

[mikeezy]

I feel like they could adjust the roll so that you always get 2 die at least.

I'll stop rerolling and keep just 1 if I get TB or Shark, but you can still find yourself re-rolling over and over with just 1 coming up and not getting either of those two good buffs.

I would be fine never rolling a 6 again if they made it so you always get 2 or 3.

[Deleted]

If I see this misleading chart anohter time I will punch the next assa rogue on the street I see.

this is average for all logs. FOTM is outlaw so we have 6846546546x more outlaw rogues this means 6546854698546 more bad rogues playing this spec.

If you want to see the real proof look for top 10 on every boss rogue specs you see outlaw dominating

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/10#class=Rogue

LOL sorry the dumbest thing ive ever read.
You know that outlaw is a HEAVY luck depending build?
So you shouldt ever ever ever look on the top 10 clears, because these are mostly 6rtb and and 3rtb rolls in a row.
So you have to look on the averange. And this fotm thing is absolutly not true. Any "good" player was specing outlaw because 2 "progamer" wrote a guide ( which are based on unconfirmed informations from other player and sims ) which told them outlaw is way ahead. So imho more bad player rolled assa because all that sim sect believer rolled outlaw bcause its "better".

Its just my opinion, but again, never look on the top 10 clears while there are heavy luck depending builds out there.

[Sephiroso]

LOL sorry the dumbest thing ive ever read.
You know that outlaw is a HEAVY luck depending build?
So you shouldt ever ever ever look on the top 10 clears, because these are mostly 6rtb and and 3rtb rolls in a row.
So you have to look on the averange. And this fotm thing is absolutly not true. Any "good" player was specing outlaw because 2 "progamer" wrote a guide ( which are based on unconfirmed informations from other player and sims ) which told them outlaw is way ahead. So imho more bad player rolled assa because all that sim sect believer rolled outlaw bcause its "better".

Its just my opinion, but again, never look ok the top 10 clears while there are heavy luck depending builds out there.

Already been shown that a rogue in top rankings didn't roll more than 2 buffs for fights. So good dps isn't dependant on rolling 6 buffs. Just stop. Learn to play or shut the everloving fuck up about anything on Outlaw rogues since you clearly don't know shit about them.

[shaunika123]

I would be fine never rolling a 6 again if they made it so you always get 2 or 3.

that would just lower the skillcap tho

LOL sorry the dumbest thing ive ever read.
You know that outlaw is a HEAVY luck depending build?
So you shouldt ever ever ever look on the top 10 clears, because these are mostly 6rtb and and 3rtb rolls in a row.
So you have to look on the averange. And this fotm thing is absolutly not true. Any "good" player was specing outlaw because 2 "progamer" wrote a guide ( which are based on unconfirmed informations from other player and sims ) which told them outlaw is way ahead. So imho more bad player rolled assa because all that sim sect believer rolled outlaw bcause its "better".

Its just my opinion, but again, never look on the top 10 clears while there are heavy luck depending builds out there.

im world 2. on HC xavius atm, i dont even remember rolling 3, and definitely didnt roll 6
my avg buff/roll was 1.875

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...uras&source=28


edit: apparently i rolled 3 once, sry. But rolling 3 once in a 7 minute fight aint exactly unreasonable

[Rixxis]

Not sure why people are still arguing that you need 3/6 constant buffs to do good DPS...Simcraft already invalidates that because it simulates scenarios where you have to reroll over thousands of attempts. The "problem" with the spec is that usually bad RNG feels a lot worse than good RNG to people, so it can be frustrating if you get shitty solo buffs the whole fight. But that RNG is somewhat offset by the fact that you feel like a god with good rolls, and the spec is dynamic in that you have to decide when/if to reroll depending on the situation, not to mention mediocre RNG is still very competitive DPS.

My only problems with Outlaw right now are:
1) The artifact talent tree sucks. No nice 2nd or 3rd gold is disappointing and the path to each is littered with shitty choices as well
2) Itemizing has been a bit confusing, and listening to stat weights hasn't made me feel more powerful. For whatever reason my Haste and Mastery EPs are super higher, with crit bring my lowest. Gearing for Haste hasn't felt better at all, especially considering half the time you don't even want/need more energy regen.
3) Delay on the fucking extra Sabre Slash procs when you're energy flooded...So easy to waste CPs because for whatever reason it takes a full second for the Combo Points to count.

[Deleted]

Run Through Lunging finishing move that causes damage per combo point and has increased range: 1 point : [ 150% [ 142% of AP ] damage 2 points: [ 300% [ 284% of AP ] damage 3 points: [ 450% [ 426% of AP ] damage 4 points: [ 600% [ 568% of AP ] damage 5 points: [ 750% [ 710% of AP ] damage Rogue - Outlaw Spec. 35 Energy. Melee range. Instant.

Saber Slash Viciously slash an enemy, causing (1% of weapon damage [ 0.709 * 1% of weapon damage or 0.029 * Level * 1% of weapon damage + 0.418 * 1% of weapon damage or 1% of weapon damage ) Physical damage. Saber Slash has a 35% chance to strike an additional time, making your next Pistol Shot free. Awards 1 combo points each time it strikes. Rogue - Outlaw Spec. 50 Energy. Melee range. Instant.

That one. It's not huge but it's probably going to be a 5-6% DPS loss overall.

I'm pretty sure that's live and that's a tooltip change.

[Deleted]

Clearing normal went moderately well as Outlaw, sucked on a few bosses, topped DPS on Cenarius thanks to a 6-buff and did okay on a few others.
All in all it feels very unsatisfying to play at a consistent level but have such huge drops in performance thanks to RNG.
Heroic went horrible, after hovering around 12th place for 3 pulls in a row while happily rerolling half of the fight, i got pissed and switched to Assa. Next pull i finished 1st while 25k ahead of 2nd place :/
That is obviously anecdotal and the sample size is way too low to draw any conclusions on the spec's real strength but the problem is that no raider will ever get close to the amount of pulls that a standard simcraft run, normally 10k iterations or higher, does so the deviation from the average damage on simcraft can be huge, be it higher or lower.
Based on the limited amount of data from WCL, it seems like the top 1-5% of assassination and outlaw are reasonably close to each other but if i think about what i have to do to get a high percentile as assa and as outlaw, it becomes clear that it is a lot easier to consistently perform at a high level as assa since i have more control ober my damage.
I'll definitely keep playing Outlaw for any fight with short-lived adds and fast target switching but i'll look into playing Assa for pure ST.

Spot on, this is my thought process as well atm. I spent the majority of the time on the first boss rerolling rtb, with a total of 27 casts on the first kill. I seriously did not get either TB or SiW in the first 13 casts, which gave me an astonishingly bad feeling. My buffs went as follows:
BT, GM, JR, BS, GM, GM+BT (full duration), GM, BS, JR, BT, BT, BS.

I did catch up later on, getting a single SiW which I kept into a TB which finally got me rolling on the meters. Ended in 3rd place at 220k dps. But it made me question the validity of running outlaw on progression. Then again, you could just as well get a 6 roll by roughly the same chance as getting as unlucky as I did early on. RNG is RNG. Getting a bad streak at the end of a fight sub 20% could be the difference between a kill and a wipe, and it's out of your hands. Not sure I like it that way.

Looking at wcl, it dawns on me that ranking will become skewed to such a dramatic degree that in a few months time, all you'll see in the top are 6-rollers, making ranking basically worthless for any form of gaging of player performance.

If the top end of both assassination and outlaw are somewhat close to each other, reaching the top tier performance will be much more in the hands of the player as asssassination than it will outlaw, which is much more in the hands of RNG.

With quite a few bosses being single target or with the occasional bursting down adds (not really caring about il'gynoth slimes bf padding, although it's not unimportant), assassination is looking temping.

[pies1]

Then you have to stop rerolling and keep solo shark or perhaps TB to reset the CD on AR.

A few of the top parses i looked at had over 40 rerolls in EN.

[Deleted]

3) Delay on the fucking extra Sabre Slash procs when you're energy flooded...So easy to waste CPs because for whatever reason it takes a full second for the Combo Points to count.

I fucking haaattteeee this. It feels like I'm lagging or something :-/