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  1. #201
    Scarab Lord TwoNineMarine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maletalana View Post
    I would say that depends on the severity and what was said. Probably 90% or so I would agree with you, but to the people who stalk online and send actual hate mail and convince teenagers to kill themselves, those people are as viable as real criminals.


    Further, there's a fine line between "you're a fag lol" and "your family deserves to be murdered, kill yourself" and shit like that.

    [Last one:] big difference between "rip" and "fucking kill yourself". Just say "rip" and "uninstall", those are funny and convey your intended message, which is [non-harmful] trash talking.
    Stalking one particular person, especially if they can't block you etc, is something different if their goal is to physically harm that person. If they are being big douches, regardless of what they say, shouldn't be subject to government regulation.

    And people shouldn't be so sensitive to the shit people say. Especially when it's some random asshole online.

    But I fully understand your approach.

    Quote Originally Posted by adam86shadow View Post
    You don't have to understand it, it is what it is and most mature people don't feel oppressed over it. Whenever the faux outrage regarding trolls getting punished appears on here I always assume it's because said people behave similar
    If you don't feel repressed by a reduction in your free speech, regardless of what that speech is, then you are a part of the problem.

    The government should not regulate what you say. That's not their job.

    But then again people want government in every aspect of their life so your approach to this isn't surprising.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.” - General James Mattis

  2. #202

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahovv View Post
    I can already smell the double standards.
    ... go on?

  4. #204
    Old God Mistame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linadra View Post
    And nowhere on this planet is that actually true.
    You're really just arguing semantics here. Sure, there are "limitations", but only in regards to the welfare and rights of others (yelling fire in a theater, etc). Outside of that, "free speech" is the freedom to say what you want without government interference. And to that degree, it does exist, though it's not as prevalent as it should be. But these types of laws, like in the OP, are what happens when people forget that governments exist at the consent of the people.
    Last edited by Mistame; 2016-09-22 at 07:40 PM.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Skavau View Post

    If you like that idea, then you better get used to all esoteric and taboo opinions never being expressed because the fear of being sacked, or judged by your peers is a big reason why people feel compelled to use online pseudonyms. You'd break all kinds of underground opinions if you forced people to say their opinion by their real name.

    Is that the kind of society you want to live in?
    What opinion do you want to express to your coworkers face, but can't because you're worried about getting fired?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoranon View Post
    It means exactly that, that government cannot punish you for what you say.
    Not in the slightest. There have always been restrictions on free speech and rightly so.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    What opinion do you want to express to your coworkers face, but can't because you're worried about getting fired?
    I don't know, opinions on incest (I think it should be legal), opinions on free speech, opinions on piracy, opinions on religion, political parties, depiction of pedophilia (I think cartoon pedophilia, where there are no victims should be decriminalised) etc. Much of this probably would not get ME fired or ostracized, but it's not just about ME. It's about everyone. You're saying that people should be forced to attach their real identity to all of their opinions. This would not only cause esoteric and taboo opinions to vanish, but also be open season for people having unwanted trolls TURN UP AT THEIR HOUSE. It would normalise doxxing.

    Not in the slightest. There have always been restrictions on free speech and rightly so.
    Restrictions exist where actual, physical harm to individuals or assets could take place. Those restrictions also function as a basis for investigation, rather than censor. If someone makes a threat, you look into it to see if they're actually being serious. If someone is harassing someone, it is the disruption of their life that is an issue. If someone is effected by libel, it is the unjustified damage to their image and their assets that is looked into.

    Using the state to bludgeon someone for making a racist joke is going too far.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam the Wiser View Post
    Feels good to be American now!
    Took the letters right off of my fingertips!!

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dkwhyevernot View Post
    Think of it as state sanctioned action against libel/slander. Its tricky for dead people to sue.

    At least our freedom of exoression laws apply generally rather than just restricting government restriction.
    Did you read the full comment against the guy? It was an attack on his character. It wasn't just a senseless insult.

  9. #209
    Mechagnome Maletalana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoNineMarine View Post
    Stalking one particular person, especially if they can't block you etc, is something different if their goal is to physically harm that person. If they are being big douches, regardless of what they say, shouldn't be subject to government regulation.

    And people shouldn't be so sensitive to the shit people say. Especially when it's some random asshole online.

    But I fully understand your approach.
    Honestly I was basically trying to convey the approach, yes, that's right on the money.

  10. #210
    I get that it might not be logically consistent, but as with all of these cases Skavau brings to MMOC-OT; I'll save my worrying for when it's not someone being a senseless asshole on the internet for shits n giggles; and for when (if it ever comes) people are getting fined despite being able to articulate their unpopular ideas in a courteous manner.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Posting here is primarily a way to strengthen your own viewpoint against common counter-arguments.

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    I get that it might not be logically consistent, but as with all of these cases Skavau brings to MMOC-OT; I'll save my worrying for when it's not someone being a senseless asshole on the internet for shits n giggles; and for when (if it ever comes) people are getting fined despite being able to articulate their unpopular ideas in a courteous manner.
    It's not logically consistent. You're basically saying your support for free speech only goes as far for those who express palatable opinions. Popular speech doesn't need protection.

  12. #212
    No that's why I admitted it. I think after previous discussions that ultimately you're correct. I just can't muster the motivation to care when so far the cases are, as you say, the wretched, the stupid, the racist...

    I also would admit to viewing these somewhat random convictions as more of an "example-making" than an absolute trend. With any luck it won't take many before people maybe think twice before going completely overboard online. I can't pretend I'd not prefer that environment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Posting here is primarily a way to strengthen your own viewpoint against common counter-arguments.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    No that's why I admitted it. I think after previous discussions that ultimately you're correct. I just can't muster the motivation to care when so far the cases are, as you say, the wretched, the stupid, the racist...

    I also would admit to viewing these somewhat random convictions as more of an "example-making" than an absolute trend. With any luck it won't take many before people maybe think twice before going completely overboard online. I can't pretend I'd not prefer that environment.
    Fair enough.

    These convictions are example-making, but their rates are increasing, and this is the first time it has happened on Reddit (to my knowledge) to someone posting under a pseudonym.

  14. #214
    Old God Mistame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    What opinion do you want to express to your coworkers face, but can't because you're worried about getting fired?
    To be fair, "free speech" does not apply to private employers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skavau View Post
    Did you read the full comment against the guy? It was an attack on his character. It wasn't just a senseless insult.
    It really was just senseless insults. "Libel", etc, implies intent on harming one's reputation, etc, etc. The random spewings of internet trolls really doesn't qualify. If anything, the family could/should have sued him but government really should have no role here.

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistame View Post
    It really was just senseless insults. "Libel", etc, implies intent on harming one's reputation, etc, etc. The random spewings of internet trolls really doesn't qualify. If anything, the family could/should have sued him but government really should have no role here.
    The odds are no-one even knew he said it. It was a buried Reddit comment.

  16. #216
    The Unstoppable Force THE Bigzoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bapestar View Post
    No just stating you shouldn't talk shit whilst not being anonymous.
    But all most of us do on here is talk shit.

    Anyway, fixed that for you.

  17. #217
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    I do love the way there are so many Americans in the thread who are like "OMG the UK have laws to combat racism/etc that impede peoples free speech rights to commit racism/etc, that's so fascist", if you guys had a proper approach against racism then you wouldn't have the current situation with BLM and cop killings/etc.

  18. #218
    Deleted
    Deeply ironic that the yanks are lecturing about free speech when their own security services imprisoned two Brits for writing "We're going to destroy America" on their facebook wall. The phrase means "we will drink lots of alcohol in America" as any one with a fucking brain would have figured out.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Skavau View Post
    Looks like UK police overreach is now extending onto Reddit. This gets more and more disturbing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The actual comment, the bulk of the comment (which the article of course omitted) is a character assessment against the person in question. Who knows if it is correct, but the man has every right to express his opinion.
    So, how do the Brits on this forums feel? Who cares about an infraction from MMO-C, when we could now just report you to your British police?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    I do love the way there are so many Americans in the thread who are like "OMG the UK have laws to combat racism/etc that impede peoples free speech rights to commit racism/etc, that's so fascist", if you guys had a proper approach against racism then you wouldn't have the current situation with BLM and cop killings/etc.
    Aaaand this. So much.
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  20. #220
    Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought you do not have freedom of speech in the UK?

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