Emerald Nightmare HC easiest raid in the history of wow?

[Deleted]

We cleared normal + first two hc bosses on wednesday in 3 hours of raid time (which was to be expected, since normal is a joke anyway).

We then proceeded to clear EN hc on thursday in 3 hours of raid time. None of the encounters took us more than 2-4 attempts before it went down, and I have to say that (excluding Cenarius and Xavius) the boss mechanics were an absolute joke compared to let's say Highmaul hc.

Never in the history of this game have I been able to clear an entire raid on its release week on HC, or in this case, in more a less a single day of raiding.

Speaking from a DPS perspective:
Nythendra has only one meaningful ability: don't drop stuff in raid if you get the debuff, rest is self explanatory
Ursoc is butcher 2.0, pretty much no mechanic involved whatsoever, you just have to meet the dps requirements
Dragons is 90% standing in one spot and casting your rotation, too
Renferal is Nythendra come again: don't drop stuff in raid if you get the debuff, rest is self explanatory
Il'gynoth is basically kill adds, then tunnel on boss till he dies.
Only Cenarius and Xavius have somewhat interesting mechanics, which is quite sad.

I remember that highmaul HC took us several attempts on some bosses and we definitely did not kill imperator in the first week, took us something like 60 attempts before downing him.


Yes, I do realise that mythic will be a lot harder, but don't you also feel that HC is currently massively undertuned and bosses are way too simple design wise?

[Factoral]

We cleared normal + first two hc bosses on wednesday in 3 hours of raid time (which was to be expected, since normal is a joke anyway).

We then proceeded to clear EN hc on thursday in 3 hours of raid time. None of the encounters took us more than 2-4 attempts before it went down, and I have to say that (excluding Cenarius and Xavius) the boss mechanics were an absolute joke compared to let's say Highmaul hc.

Never in the history of this game have I been able to clear an entire raid on it's release week on HC, or in this case, in more a less a single day of raiding.

Speaking from a DPS perspective:
Nythendra has only one meaningful ability: don't drop stuff in raid if you get the debuff, rest is self explanatory
Ursoc is butcher 2.0, pretty much no mechanic involved whatsoever, you just have to meet the dps requirements
Dragons is 90% standing in one spot and casting your rotation, too
Renferal is Nythendra come again: don't drop stuff in raid if you get the debuff, rest is self explanatory
Il'gynoth is basically kill adds, then tunnel on boss till he dies.
Only Cenarius and Xavius have somewhat interesting mechanics, which is quite sad.

I remember that highmaul HC took us several attempts on some bosses and we definitely did not kill imperator in the first week, took us something like 60 attempts before downing him.


Yes, I do realise that mythic will be a lot harder, but don't you also feel that HC is currently massively undertuned and bosses are way too simple design wise?

I assume there will be some balance tweaks here and there.

But generally I think HC is now pretty much what Normal used to be, and Mythic is what HC used to be.

[Narzok]

i would wait for mythic before calling it the easiest raid ever. It's the first raid of legion, and if IF! blizz changed their view on raids, maybe heroic is intended to be this difficult.

What i would really hate is if the first boss turns out to be a joke on mythic, resulting again in heaps of 1-boss killing people feeling better because "they did mythic 1/7"

[Inuyaki]

You have more itemlevels than back before HM...
Also HM bosses were easy too, except Imperator. The first 6 were a joke.

[Vorkreist]

You forgot the part where EN is tuned mostly for 825-830 ilvl. I bet most your group is 840+

[Jyggalag]

The mythic progress race will give us a better idea of how difficult it is. Mechanic wise it's been straight forward enough so far but you have to remember that mythic has additional mechanics.

Nyth the green pools don't go away. The boss's hp will be larger, the encounter will take longer, there will be precious little space to avoid bugs which 2-3 shot on heroic.
Ursoc will effectively become this tier's equivalent to Butcher. Tank damage will be insane. The DPS check will be very real to kill him before running out of space.
Renferal the small spiders give the boss a buff when tanked beside it. The tank mechanic which means they'll want to be close to each other for most of the fight will make maximizing feather damage matter. Longer time spent in each platform again will mean more green pools, you'll have no choice but to clear to make room for when the boss slams down and causes more damage the closer you are.
Il'gynoth you can guarantee 1-2 more trips inside the tree, and even on heroic the 2nd outside phase has an overwhelming amount of adds to deal without hero.
Cenarius will be very challenging. Every time you cleanse an add, it rejoins the corrupted after a while. 2 adds becomes 3, 3 becomes 4 etc which makes staying on top of adds in the later fight a mountain of a task in itself. Order will be a lot less simple than heroic where the sisters are generally never cleansed. Will likely be vital to time it so that you cleanse a dragon just before the 30% mark to help with the burn phase, where adds still up may have to be ignored/kited away.
Not familiar with the Xavius mythic differences yet but no one knows whether there's a 4th phase like Mar'gok in Highmaul had. I agree it seems easy on heroic but i'd imagine mythic will be a very different story.

Don't forget that every player has their BiS weapon for the whole expansion and can fully gear from Mythic dungeons before raiding. Comparing with WoD we only had max 2-3 640 items from the daily Challenge Mode dungeon to optimize our gear outside of heroic dungeons. We also could only equip 3 crafted items while now a lot of players are running from head to toe full BiS crafted gear.

[Deleted]

@OP

You somehow mixed up tuning with encounter design.
Encounter design wise, what exactly was difficult or more complex in HM from a DD perspective?

The biggest reason why the encounters are easy right now is because they die so fast. Most people (in higher-end guilds) running NHC will barely get any upgrades since they are @ 850+ already.

[Hunaxor]

I think it is mainly due to overgearing. Your guild seems to be made from ready people, so it is probable that you ilvl is around 850, with highest item being the weapon. So you are at a point that could be classified as EN normal geared people, with very good weapons. In that case you should be able to do the heroic quite fine if people are doing the mechanics.

But the mechanics feel also quite easy, being a DK I was worried by the movement needed, but I have spent most of my time in melee range just fine. But I am also someone that plays mmos for many years and my guild aim for mythic (not the race) so it also skews the viewpoint. You will be able to find many people that will actually progress through the heroic for many weeks (and that is totally fine).

In mythic, there are some new mechanics so that should shake up things by a bit.

[Deleted]

Gimme a break. Highmaul HC was way way more easier than Emerald Nightmare is. Now we are just much more geared than we were back there. Most people were about 630-635 when raids opened and now most people are 845-850 what is huge difference.

Highmaul had 1 hard boss and it was Imperator.

[Deleted]

What i would really hate is if the first boss turns out to be a joke on mythic, resulting again in heaps of 1-boss killing people feeling better because "they did mythic 1/7"

why?

Anyway as plenty before me have said. We are obviously overgeared for this content. This is something blizzard might have to think about for future raid releases

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Gimme a break. Highmaul HC was way way more easier than Emerald Nightmare is. Now we are just much more geared than we were back there. Most people were about 630-635 when raids opened and now most people are 845-850 what is huge difference.

Highmaul had 1 hard boss and it was Imperator.

You do realise that Legion raids are not tuned around ilvl 635 right?

[Kryos]

But generally I think HC is now pretty much what Normal used to be, and Mythic is what HC used to be.

So exactly how it's supposed to be?:


Some people here have a very very bad memory.

[Deleted]

why?

Anyway as plenty before me have said. We are obviously overgeared for this content. This is something blizzard might have to think about for future raid releases

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You do realise that Legion raids are not tuned around ilvl 635 right?

And still EN is harder than highmaul if we look mechanics. Ursoc is much more harder than Butcher, Il'gynoth is harder than Tectus (If you have DPS to down it on first enter, then it is much more easier)

You seem to miss point i have there.
EN is tuned for 835, we have 845-850 gear
Highmaul was tuned 635 we had about 635 loot. See my point now?

[Reloe]

we just started with higher itemlvl compared to the past.
EN HC drops 865itemlvl, 850 gear was widely available in addition to potentional 895 legendaries.
Highmaul HC dropped 670itemlvl, hc dungeons drop 630 and you were able to get some 640 pieces through CM daily (a week later they added potentional warforged to this). You could wear 3crafted items with 665 and boe's with 665.
Potentionally if you bought all the boe's and 3crafted items you could start with more or less the same gear but there was a big difference in gold.
in Legion you could get full 850 gear with ~ 500-600k if you didn't buy your shit week 1, considering the amount of gold in fluctuation thats insanely cheap, if you wanted to go for that amount of gear in WoD you'd probably had to pay even more with less average gold per raider.
For my guild we were 12itemlvl below drop-itemlvl for Nythendra and about 19itemlvl below drop-itemlvl for imperator in Highmaul (didn't track it properly for kargath so I looked at imperator)
HC mechanics were never amazingly hard, I have no idea where you see harder mechanics in highmaul, looking back at our killtimes we cleared 5/7HC within 1,5 hours back in highmaul, last 2bosses were on a later day since we decided to do normal aswell.

[Deleted]

And still EN is harder than highmaul if we look mechanics. Ursoc is much more harder than Butcher, Il'gynoth is harder than Tectus (If you have DPS to down it on first enter, then it is much more easier)

You seem to miss point i have there.
EN is tuned for 835, we have 845-850 gear
Highmaul was tuned 635 we had about 635 loot. See my point now?

I'm not missing your point, it just the way you described it in your other post it sounded like you where saying that we have 840 gear now and only 635 in WoD, so ofc its easier. You didnt say what the instances where tuned for.

I think:
Nythendra is easier then Kargath.
Ursoc and the Butcher is about the same, even have similar mechanics. The Butcher has a much tighter hc dps requirement though.
Tectus, brackenspore and Ko'ragh are all pretty equal in difficulty. And all around the same difficulty as their EN counterparts.
ko'ragh and Cenarius i dont know honestly.
Imperator is much harder then Xavius

These are all my own observations and are based on tacs mostly

[Deleted]

Nah, try and pug EN and you will see that nothing has changed. If anything, EN is very similar to HM in the sense that all but the final bosses are very easy compared to final boss. I think the increased ilvl due to the WQ&artifact system and easier mythics affects only organised guilds but not pugs.

[Deleted]

You have more itemlevels than back before HM...
Also HM bosses were easy too, except Imperator. The first 6 were a joke.

This is all it comes down to, our group enters raid today with an avg ilevel of 854

[Deleted]

Nah, try and pug EN and you will see that nothing has changed. If anything, EN is very similar to HM in the sense that all but the final bosses are very easy compared to final boss. I think the increased ilvl due to the WQ&artifact system and easier mythics affects only organised guilds but not pugs.

Excactly. If youre in a group full of skilled people who know what they are doing every content in wow is a "joke" except mythic raids until you have those on farm status too.

[Deleted]

Excactly. If youre in a group full of skilled people who know what they are doing every content in wow is a "joke" except mythic raids until you have those on farm status too.

Pretty much this.

[Kelato]

Imo, I found HM HC to be easier. I looked up my old statistics and I had less wipes or roughly the same in HM with a guild that was worse than my current one.

I think:
Nythendra is easier then Kargath.

I don't think that is possible. Never wiped on Kargath on HC and had one wipe on Nythendra. Of course both bosses are easy, but Nythendra can lead to a wipe faster if people start to fuck things up.

[Factoral]

So exactly how it's supposed to be?:


Some people here have a very very bad memory.

I left at the end of Wotlk, didn't come back till before Legion, so I missed all of this.

Thanks though, I take it this is still true today?