Shadow Nerfs

[Lushious]

I think people are overlooking the fact that these changes could in fact be reversed, it's not the first time they've made changes and reversed them within a week. Wait for the changes to go live, then, by all means, lose your shit.

The golden counter-argument for that is: If no one "looses their shit" there is less of a likelyhood that they'll acknowledge that they went to hard with the nerf/didn't do enough buff

Even the frontpage confirms this: https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/sta...63116091838465
Granted, "constructive" != whining, but they go hand-in-hand ALWAYS

[AsaKappa]

The golden counter-argument for that is: If no one "looses their shit" there is less of a likelyhood that they'll acknowledge that they went to hard with the nerf/didn't do enough buff

Even the frontpage confirms this: https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/sta...63116091838465
Granted, "constructive" != whining, but they go hand-in-hand ALWAYS

This.

Losing your shit is the only way to effect change. Worked for warlocks.

[Woop Woop]

This.

Losing your shit is the only way to effect change. Worked for warlocks.

About that, how long was warlock ramp up time anyway? Ours is 18+ seconds before we can start to deal less damage than everyone else, yet they haven't said a word about that.

[Khorneflake]

People are losing their shit because unlike previous expansions where rerolling wasn't as painful, legion basically had us grinding our mains ready for the raid, after promising big nerfs wouldn't happen post-go live.

Now they've gutted us, and expect us to be happy with a flat 100% nerf to our primary artifact talent. On top of that, they then say they want maintaining S2M to be rewarding at high stacks? HOW, how is it in any sense rewarding when our MH caps at 50 stacks?!

People complaining about s2m being too powerful, well yes, IT SHOULD BE and many are busting their balls with this talent to simply keep up with fire mages etc. The point where s2m needs these kinds of nerfs is later down the line, when we can see the effects of legendaries and tonnes of haste on our gear + tier from NH. But in the emerald nightmare? With the terribly optimized stats? They base this nerf on a few days of data after having months of alpha/beta/ptr testing, then have the gall to tell us we didn't waste our time, shocking.

[RsinRC]

what is it like being a living, breathing meme?

What is is like to be at the bottom of charts?

[Deleted]

... On top of that, they then say they want maintaining S2M to be rewarding at high stacks? HOW, how is it in any sense rewarding when our MH caps at 50 stacks?! ...

Maybe the stacks themselves are the reward? It means you've lasted longer before you die.

so do i? does that not make SPs the best dps there? i dont get it.

also stop strawmanning me down to xavius, i also mentioned dragons and cenarius and it's not like you're on the bottom on the rest of the fights.

yeah if you couldnt abuse S2M in xavius anymore you wouldnt be topping but you can. and that's the fact.

i can also abuse cheat death and feint on many mechanics, does that mean my dps shouldnt be nerfed?

outlaw is getting nerfed and we arent the best in any of the fights you're the best in 3 and equal to us on the others (except for ilginoth)

So you just go and play some high level Mythic+ like a Shadow or just thrash some WQ mobs like a Shadow? Oh wait you'd be declined for anything higher than +4 probably and those mobs would most likely mop the floor with you. SP is made for Raid, is focused on Raid and doesn't have any other content it could shine at. As such it's an insult to nerf them in the ONLY content they're viable at right now.

[Flurryfang]

I am glad that they nerfed S2M. It was just stupid in some fights I feel like some players in here are overdoing stuff with their cries about Shadow being useless now xD The spec is still doing fine, but i really think that this might open peoples eyes for some of the things, which are wrong with the spec If the nerfs to 1 talent and 1 trait is enough to make a spec "useless" in some peoples eyes, then there is maybe something wrong with the specs dmg structure

Write to Blizzard and make them look into it, if you really think this is such a huge nerf to the class

[Khorneflake]

I am glad that they nerfed S2M. It was just stupid in some fights I feel like some players in here are overdoing stuff with their cries about Shadow being useless now xD The spec is still doing fine, but i really think that this might open peoples eyes for some of the things, which are wrong with the spec If the nerfs to 1 talent and 1 trait is enough to make a spec "useless" in some peoples eyes, then there is maybe something wrong with the specs dmg structure

Write to Blizzard and make them look into it, if you really think this is such a huge nerf to the class

I don't think you fully understand the gravity of the changes they have made to priest, before I do, saying you're glad s2m was nerfed because it was stupid on "one" fight is what we don't need, s2m was not nerfed since the 50% decrease in the insanity generation, which was fine.

These are not nerfs, these are "changes". When blizzard told us before launch that classes would not undergo huge nerfs/changes post go live everyone believed it, spent 3-4 weeks grinding their main to raid standard, then get told their class is being changed 3 days before mythics open after a grand total of 3 days raid logs/data when they had months of prelaunch testing and ptr.

Why are these "huge" changes? Because our talent which the whole spec is built around "for raiding" has been gutted and provides no bonus for going >50 stacks, this means that players who were pushing this spec to it's limits (and it's limits not even by a margin passing mages and still terrible on some fights) are punished and those that either don't care or play socially are unaffected.

The reason why people are rerolling becuase SP will be worthless is because the only reason a raid would bring spriests is high boss damage, not cleave damage. By saying our damage was "excessive" they are not taking into account that our AOE is utter garbage and fights like cenarius, which involve periods of next to no damage and constant add swapping mean our VF ramp up is totally thrown out the window. Sure, they buffed mind sear by a whole 50% and gave us an insanity gain, great, so on future encounters where we are facing 2-3 targets we wont even be using mind flay, making our 2nd gold trait worthless too.

Talking about damage structure, the ONLY class I can see constantly needing to swap out talents for fights are warlocks, people choose talents based on the content they are doing e.g, hunters taking black arrow over lock and load for leveling, outdoor stuff. It's rare that any dps class would spec out different talents for certain fights as a requirement for each and every boss, yet, while I agree that our talent choice is narrowed it is only the case for RAIDING, and why are people complaining that is not fun to have one choice when that choice IS FUCKING FUN.

The nerf to dispersion makes sense completely, void torrent? No.

Taking away the value from 50-100 stacks and then saying "they want it to feel rewarding" when we have NEEDED this to be competitive with other classes is a joke, especially when they decide to do this so close to the mythic runs. I reached rank 30 world on ursoc, beat an enhancement shaman by only 5k dps, mages following close behind, were they nerfed? No. Can they still bring strong burst for priority adds and cleave for waves of mobs/trash? Yes, can priests? No, so why would you bring one to a raid?

Blizzard also told us that our utility was being stripped in favor of shadow priest becoming a more focused damage dealer, that would be competitive.

Sorry for the rant, but blizzard need to understand the impact this has on shadow priests that wanted to raid this tier, and how many of them WILL be losing their raid spots.

[shaunika123]

Maybe the stacks themselves are the reward? It means you've lasted longer before you die.



So you just go and play some high level Mythic+ like a Shadow or just thrash some WQ mobs like a Shadow? Oh wait you'd be declined for anything higher than +4 probably and those mobs would most likely mop the floor with you. SP is made for Raid, is focused on Raid and doesn't have any other content it could shine at. As such it's an insult to nerf them in the ONLY content they're viable at right now.

the only thing that's getting nerfed is a thing you'd never use in mythic+ (S2M) and your aoe is getting buffed
soooo

plus any class can do mythic 10

[Ilir]

the only thing that's getting nerfed is a thing you'd never use in mythic+ (S2M) and your aoe is getting buffed
soooo

plus any class can do mythic 10

pls stop posting stuff like "your aoe is getting buffed" when it really isn't.

Mind sear is bad and will still be bad. They OVERnerfed the only thing we are good at (and some are better than us) AND they nerfed the rest of the spec aswell without any compensations whatsoever.

The spec is so badly designed it hurts.

And before you even try : yes I do agree that Mass Hysteria interaction with STM needed to be nerfed.

[alemaite]

People are losing their shit because unlike previous expansions where rerolling wasn't as painful, legion basically had us grinding our mains ready for the raid, after promising big nerfs wouldn't happen post-go live.

Now they've gutted us, and expect us to be happy with a flat 100% nerf to our primary artifact talent. On top of that, they then say they want maintaining S2M to be rewarding at high stacks? HOW, how is it in any sense rewarding when our MH caps at 50 stacks?!

People complaining about s2m being too powerful, well yes, IT SHOULD BE and many are busting their balls with this talent to simply keep up with fire mages etc. The point where s2m needs these kinds of nerfs is later down the line, when we can see the effects of legendaries and tonnes of haste on our gear + tier from NH. But in the emerald nightmare? With the terribly optimized stats? They base this nerf on a few days of data after having months of alpha/beta/ptr testing, then have the gall to tell us we didn't waste our time, shocking.

So much this. Like holy shit I did countless quests, grinds, Order Hall and RP shit which I HATE, but had to do to get my 3rd relic slot and rep for the new Dungeons. Also you need to keep your Order Hall up to date because it's so important in this expansion (I fucking hate the idea of this stupid mini game, it's like they can't let go of Garrissons...). Now after I just started learning the raid bosses after we did a couple of them on Heroic they destroy our main damage dealing artifact trait while giving us no alternative and buffing a skill that wasn't even on my actionbar just enough so that I still won't put it on my action bar. And I can't even reroll because it would literally take weeks just to catch up, at which point everyone else will already be ahead. What a joke.

[Cleary]

So you just go and play some high level Mythic+ like a Shadow or just thrash some WQ mobs like a Shadow? Oh wait you'd be declined for anything higher than +4 probably and those mobs would most likely mop the floor with you. SP is made for Raid, is focused on Raid and doesn't have any other content it could shine at. As such it's an insult to nerf them in the ONLY content they're viable at right now.

This is pretty much how I feel. My friends don't even want to bring me to mythic + and honestly I don't blame them. I feel like I can't compete and that i'm hindering the group by being there. We did a mythic +5 CoS and the ramp up is so awful and I can only use StM on last boss cause deaths cost you time. Not to mention during raids I look like I am doing awful DPS the entire encounter until we get to the last 2 mins of a fight. It's embarassing.

[Deleted]

The STM nerf might be justified, but in return they have to buff our damage before execute and STM. Because we're completely useless before. I think the best solution is to put void torrent on like a 25 second CD, make it generate insanity outside of VF and obviously keep the stacks of VF increase during it. That way we can do some decent damage before STM and our opener is better.

[Woop Woop]

Everyone knew from the start of beta that StM was a talent that was going to cause trouble.
Yet they didnt change a thing about it, except a nerf to its insanity gain.
And the part where you die, how is that fun? They didn't even make a new death animation.
'Then you die. Normally'.

Id like to see StM redesigned into a 1 or 2 minute cd, with LotV being more of a passive damage increase and Mind Spike turned into a burst aoe spell.
Its soon christmas, I will write a letter to Santa Blizz and cross my fingers.

[Gorsameth]

I think people are overlooking the fact that these changes could in fact be reversed, it's not the first time they've made changes and reversed them within a week. Wait for the changes to go live, then, by all means, lose your shit.

Waiting for them to go live is to late, since people will already be benched for mythic progress by that time.

[Deleted]

Shadow will still remain the strongest caster in raids. Nerf was to not make them such a massive outlier, which they still will be.

Xavius Heroic last phase Boss damage:


Total damage in last phase:

You mean the fight you can use a 10 min cd twice? The only fight in existence where this is possible? Yeah fuck me im glad we're not balancing around outliers eh.

You get roughly 25% more voidforms throughout the fight by taking S2M, so the talent has to be crazy good when you use it to just make up the damage lost by not having voidform as much throughout the other 80% of the fight. And even then it has to make up the damage you don't have on the pull with burst cds that everyone else has. Looking at fancy graphs means fuck all when it doesnt show the true picture.

- - - Updated - - -

Everyone knew from the start of beta that StM was a talent that was going to cause trouble.
Yet they didnt change a thing about it, except a nerf to its insanity gain.
And the part where you die, how is that fun? They didn't even make a new death animation.
'Then you die. Normally'.

Id like to see StM redesigned into a 1 or 2 minute cd, with LotV being more of a passive damage increase and Mind Spike turned into a burst aoe spell.
Its soon christmas, I will write a letter to Santa Blizz and cross my fingers.

Honestly if they made it a 3 min cd, halved the insanity generation, and made you unable to enter voidform for 30-45 seconds afterwards, it would be fine. But hurr durr class fantasy etc.

[Deleted]

You mean the fight you can use a 10 min cd twice? The only fight in existence where this is possible? Yeah fuck me im glad we're not balancing around outliers eh.

- - - Updated - - -



Honestly if they made it a 3 min cd, halved the insanity generation, and made you unable to enter voidform for 30-45 seconds afterwards, it would be fine. But hurr durr class fantasy etc.

And even then we get beaten by Arcane mages
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...864&dataset=95

But luckily they also nerfed arcane because they were good in one situation.

[Fleckens]

the only thing that's getting nerfed is a thing you'd never use in mythic+ (S2M) and your aoe is getting buffed
soooo

plus any class can do mythic 10

pretty sure the nerfs to void torrent and dispersion hurt us more in 5 man's than the mind sear buff helps, so they actually manage to nerf us not only where we are strong but also where we are the weakest.

[Ocedic]

Man this thread is full of hyperbole on both sides. No, shadowpriest is not the strongest raiding class. The fact that you have to link Xavius meters is proof enough of that. That's the one fight where shadowpriests are specialized for. The actual important metric would be overall damage to all the bosses, where Shadowpriests were above average but definitely not top tier.

Having said that, a nerf to MH was inevitable. The Voit nerf is definitely going too far. The dispersion nerf I can understand; using dispersion as a DPS rotation tool was just clunky. With these changes Shadowpriests will still be fine, but our rampup is still terrible. Our cleave is still terrible. The Mind Sear change feels like a total joke. Nerf our insane potential DPS - that's fine. But at least shore up some of our weaknesses, especially in Mythic+.

[bonewax]

Balancing a class around a single talent. Yep thats blizzard. Dumb