Flame on, use once or twice per combustion?

[killigon]

Whenever I pop flame on twice per combustion I end up having to wait about 15 seconds after combustion is off cooldown because of the kindling trait, I am wondering if it is best to pop it twice and wait for it or saving flame on for the next combustion?

[PurechaosSK]

you should be able to get off 4-5 fire blasts and all 3 PF during the combustion. And you should be using RoF back to back as well during your initial burst phase im pretty sure

[kheath812]

you should be able to get off 4-5 fire blasts and all 3 PF during the combustion. And you should be using RoF back to back as well during your initial burst phase im pretty sure

Good job not answering his question at all.

Its a dps loss to use flame on outside of combustion if it means you wont have it up for combustion. Its better to save it for combust.

[Fappy]

you should be able to get off 4-5 fire blasts and all 3 PF during the combustion. And you should be using RoF back to back as well during your initial burst phase im pretty sure

This is off-topic, but how do you fit the last PF in there normally? Unless I am lusted I barely have enough haste to land the pyro that follows the second PF before Combustion expires. I even have the Surumar Mythic 2-piece that gives 3000 haste (and almost always procs at the start of a fight).

[Derzorvadur]

This is off-topic, but how do you fit the last PF in there normally? Unless I am lusted I barely have enough haste to land the pyro that follows the second PF before Combustion expires. I even have the Surumar Mythic 2-piece that gives 3000 haste (and almost always procs at the start of a fight).

I can be difficult to fit everything into the combustion/rune window unless you are confident in your muscle memory and can spam the skill appropriately. A lot of times I am left with 1 PF charge if I am not super quick with the skill usage. Ultimately though, I don't think missing on PF charge makes a major difference, if combustion fades just save that last charge for your second rune right after.

[PurechaosSK]

Good job not answering his question at all.

Its a dps loss to use flame on outside of combustion if it means you wont have it up for combustion. Its better to save it for combust.

oh sorry, i see. Then the answer is to not use it twice then. but Im not sure what other mages are experiencing but i havent seen combustion lowered much past 90 seconds for it to be much of an issue.

[Biomega]

With Kindling, use it with Combustion and don't use it outside because it will de-synch.

Without Kindling, you can use it twice per Combustion but be 100% sure you have it up for Combustion.

[Volitar]

With Kindling just only use it with combustion.

Without Kindling you can use it 1 extra time before combustion is back up.

[Fappy]

I can be difficult to fit everything into the combustion/rune window unless you are confident in your muscle memory and can spam the skill appropriately. A lot of times I am left with 1 PF charge if I am not super quick with the skill usage. Ultimately though, I don't think missing on PF charge makes a major difference, if combustion fades just save that last charge for your second rune right after.

Hmmmm, I don't know, I usually get slowed down by the GCD once the PF's start coming out. I don't think I can get my FB's and Pyros out any faster than I already am.

[Linkedblade]

If you have a crit chain going, use it to keep it going, whether or not combustion is up

[Kazuchika]

If you have a crit chain going, use it to keep it going, whether or not combustion is up

This is horrible advice.

[Deleted]

Save it for combustion.

[Deleted]

This is horrible advice.

Indeed.



As for OPs question. It's a pretty annoying calculation, you can use it twice even with kindling IF it doesn't mean you lose a combustion waiting for it to be up or the next combustion. So basically if you have to wait 30sec extra total combusting and there's 1 minute of fight left after your last combustion it's a dps gain to use it twice per combust. For ease of use though, just delay your flame on for combustion.

[Biomega]

As for OPs question. It's a pretty annoying calculation, you can use it twice even with kindling IF it doesn't mean you lose a combustion waiting for it to be up or the next combustion. So basically if you have to wait 30sec extra total combusting and there's 1 minute of fight left after your last combustion it's a dps gain to use it twice per combust. For ease of use though, just delay your flame on for combustion.

This would take a ludicrous amount of effort to predict correctly (especially on progression) and the gain would be minimal - while the margin for error is huge.

Just don't do it. Treat Flame On as having the same cooldown as Combustion when using Kindling.

[Spitfiyah]

Is delaying Combustion for 10 secs still a big DPS loss if you treat your 2nd Flame On as a pseudo combustion?
(IE: Using 3rd rune without casting Fireball as a filler FB HS->FB->Pyro->FB->Pyro etc

[Anyael]

Is delaying Combustion for 10 secs still a big DPS loss if you treat your 2nd Flame On as a pseudo combustion?
(IE: Using 3rd rune without casting Fireball as a filler FB HS->FB->Pyro->FB->Pyro etc

Short answer: Yes
Long Answer: Depends on whether or not the 10 seconds waiting will make you miss another combustion in the fight.

[Deleted]

If you have a crit chain going, use it to keep it going, whether or not combustion is up

This is horrible advice.

Hahahah, this made me laugh a bit to loud at work. "Ohh my geeerd! MOAR CRITS, USE EVERATHAAANG!!!!"

.... i just had to. https://imgflip.com/i/1bc7dg

[Deleted]

That's something you need to figure out yourself in every fight. You have to be able to estimate the remaining duration of the boss to deduce the amount of combustion you can fill in it based on your average kindling procs (considering if you're on BL or if there is downtime). And ofc you need bosses knowledge to know if you can wait those 10-20 sec to align combustion with a phase that needs dps burst (ie I'llgynoth hearth , Cenarius nightmare roots'...). Using it in between combustion with RoP and maybe 1 PF can be very good if conditions are met.

If you don't want to tire yourself, use it only with combustion.

[Deleted]

This would take a ludicrous amount of effort to predict correctly (especially on progression) and the gain would be minimal - while the margin for error is huge.

Just don't do it. Treat Flame On as having the same cooldown as Combustion when using Kindling.

That's how you beat those pesky 99% mages and get that sweet orange number on the warcraftlogs site. But yes, for ease of use just save flame on's for combustion. It's not a huge loss compared to perfectly calculating and does come with a massive risk.

[Biomega]

That's how you beat those pesky 99% mages and get that sweet orange number on the warcraftlogs site. But yes, for ease of use just save flame on's for combustion. It's not a huge loss compared to perfectly calculating and does come with a massive risk.

If you're someone capable of competing in the 99% bracket, you're not here asking about usage of Flame On. For mere mortals, playing it safe will usually be the best course of action.