Legion - Outlaw Discussion

[RobertoCarlos]

Logging on, finding the nerfs to run through/fate bringer hurts a lot more than I thought it would. Even the tooltip damage is depressing ><

[Kalador]

If we're concerned about Outlaw being outscaled so hard by sub we should post about it. I know not everyone is a fan of Outlaw but...have you guys played sub? My god. They're clearly not opposed to re-tuning, we should make our voices heard about Outlaw's scalability at this point. I don't want to be forced to switch away, but one spec being a full 10% DPS better will necessitate that. I'd like to continue playing Outlaw the whole way through M Nighthold.

It's not outscaled that hard. M sims are done with BiS legendary and sub boots are insane... Also outlaw will always have strong cleave just from the BF MFD RT toolkit...

[Bladivine]

Logging on, finding the nerfs to run through/fate bringer hurts a lot more than I thought it would. Even the tooltip damage is depressing ><

Indeed, Run through now needs more energy and does less damage...sighs...

[TheRogue]

Blizzard have done what they said they wouldn't do, instead of just bringing up other specs, they have pushed outlaw down below them.

[Deleted]

i feel the outlaw nerfs was not needed and was just mainly from the big outcry of outlaw doing very well early on, but they have shitty scaling, which was not taken into consideration.

it have never been a secret that sublety and assa scale better than outlaw and with people now getting 860-880 ilvl pieces and with nerf to outlaw + butt to the other two specs i see outlaw falling behind VERY quickly now

i'm already getting asked to look into rerolling to sub or assa by guildmates and my mythic+ group

[uniquesnowflakename]

i feel the outlaw nerfs was not needed and was just mainly from the big outcry of outlaw doing very well early on, but they have shitty scaling, which was not taken into consideration.

it have never been a secret that sublety and assa scale better than outlaw and with people now getting 860-880 ilvl pieces and with nerf to outlaw + butt to the other two specs i see outlaw falling behind VERY quickly now

i'm already getting asked to look into rerolling to sub or assa by guildmates and my mythic+ group

Assassination scales the worst of all 3 specs, which is why it falls significantly behind in mythic Nighthold sims. Granted, a lot will probably change before NH is in the game.

[SeLKO]

RIP outlaw , didnt expect simcrafts to be that bad QQ... once again gj blizz

[Sephiroso]

RIP outlaw , didnt expect simcrafts to be that bad QQ... once again gj blizz

It isn't RIP outlaw though. Anyone who says this is just as bad as the crowd who said Outlaw sucks cause of rng even before all these nerfs were published.

[SeLKO]

It isn't RIP outlaw though. Anyone who says this is just as bad as the crowd who said Outlaw sucks cause of rng even before all these nerfs were published.

for ppl who want max from their character in raid environment it is. as Outlaw you cant compete with Assa now, so why to stick with that spec. Dont get me wrong, I like the spec, even with that rng... I am gonna still play it in dungeons.

[Sephiroso]

for ppl who want max from their character in raid environment it is. as Outlaw you cant compete with Assa now, so why to stick with that spec. Dont get me wrong, I like the spec, even with that rng... I am gonna still play it in dungeons.

Except that isn't the case. If you think Sims = real raid, you're sorely mistaken. It's an indicator for sure, but until you see it on WCL, take it with a grain of salt. I'm still right at the top like i was before nerfs.

[TheRogue]

We need to see logs of this weeks raids before we can make any decisions. The large ST nerf was unwarranted though.

[Lawless77]

We need to see logs of this weeks raids before we can make any decisions. The large ST nerf was unwarranted though.

Doing pretty decent with sub. After the range game that is Outlaw, sub feels really good. I think I'll jump now and not deal with the slow decline over the next few weeks.

[elfporn]

i feel the outlaw nerfs was not needed and was just mainly from the big outcry of outlaw doing very well early on, but they have shitty scaling, which was not taken into consideration.

it have never been a secret that sublety and assa scale better than outlaw and with people now getting 860-880 ilvl pieces and with nerf to outlaw + butt to the other two specs i see outlaw falling behind VERY quickly now

i'm already getting asked to look into rerolling to sub or assa by guildmates and my mythic+ group

you're wrong on all accounts.

Assassination scales the worst, outlaw gets outscaled by sub.

Outlaw dps is still ahead of assassination - and if you're not beating an assassination rogue of equal gear, you need to figure out what you're doing wrong, because you are doign it wrong.

sub is even with gear, and surpasses both specs with better and better gear.

- - - Updated - - -

for ppl who want max from their character in raid environment it is. as Outlaw you cant compete with Assa now, so why to stick with that spec. Dont get me wrong, I like the spec, even with that rng... I am gonna still play it in dungeons.

if you can't beat and equally geared ass rogue, you're playing outlaw incorrectly.

[enzi]

After removing a lot of mastery from my gear and gaining crit/vers, my dmg has gone up quite significant. It seems with mastery the sim numbers are higher than they should be. Mastery in it's current state is a waste of stats, the gain from it through energy ticks/dmg is laughable compared to run through crits. Before my total RT dmg was just 1/3 higher than my SS. Now it's double and I have no RT relic.

Regarding rolling, the short answer is don't think you can play the system. You got a single JR? Good, it could also be BT. The more you think about the worst case the better your dps will get. Dmg comes purely through RT and every roll is a missed RT, so potentially 600k.

Don't reroll any 2 rolls, it's an instant dps loss and won't go in your favor.
Sometimes you have a opener and roll 5-6 single buffs. What you should learn out of it is not to roll that often. Don't even try to fish for SIW. Stop at 1 MD roll and max 2 rolls.
Time your AR/CoD. With a crit roll opener I can reach 500k+, without it's 350k. I delay for 1 MD roll and max 2 rolls to get SIW or double buff. Best combo during CoD is TB/SIW . Outside I'd say JR/BS. If I get JR/BS/SIW the dmg spike is insane. Even without SIW I feel it's the best 2 roll combo.

Hold onto single TB/SIW for at least 3-4 RTs or longer depending on the situation. Especially in burn phases single TB/SIW is good enough. Aain, it could also be a single BT.

Also with GM. With a lot of mastery this buff is really good. It can accelerate your energy gain much more than BT does and also depending on the situation it's one of these 1 buffs I hold onto for some RTs.

Btw not one 6 roll in 2 raids. QQ

[Kuntantee]

Is there a comprehensive guide on outlaw rogue?

[Sephiroso]

Is there a comprehensive guide on outlaw rogue?

Stern's guide or Icyveins. Take both with a bit of a grain of salt as things change from week to week and no guarantee that either are up to date.

[Deleted]

Do the stat weights change with the nerf?

It feels so clunky now...

[Ninjezz]

Is ilvl 830 run through dmg inc % better than a worse artifact power like cloak healing at 845 artifact ilvl?

[eil]

Is ilvl 830 run through dmg inc % better than a worse artifact power like cloak healing at 845 artifact ilvl?

The RT damage is likely still better. I haven't seen any new sims, but the previous ilvl equivalency was ~61; and I sincerely doubt the recent nerfs dropped the value of that trait by 75%.

[Deefame]

Oh well, it was awesome while it lasted. Preliminary tests show my damage down by about 10+%. I used all Fatebringer relics. Small nerf my ass.