Final Boss for this Expansion

[Morgromir]

Personally i dont think The Tomb of Sargeras will be last raid tier this expansion. I think it will be the 2nd last and after beating whoever the main boss is in the tomb (new avatar of sargeras?) We will take the repaired Exodar to Argus for the final raid this expansion and take the fight straight to kil'jaeden on his home turf.

[Zandalariprelate]

Personally i dont think The Tomb of Sargeras will be last raid tier this expansion. I think it will be the 2nd last and after beating whoever the main boss is in the tomb (new avatar of sargeras?) We will take the repaired Exodar to Argus for the final raid this expansion and take the fight straight to kil'jaeden on his home turf.

That fit more as a cliffhanger ending to another expantion and considering blizzard is working for evade the 1 year gasp with more content, yeah i think we might see the new expantion more sooner

[purebalance]

- N'zoth is -directly- responsible for the Nightmare even if Yogg-Saron opened the way.
- N'zoth is basically -involved- with the Naga in a way we have yet to fully understand, who have a prominant role in Azsuna.
- Old God whispers of prophecy are rarley wrong, look at yogg-saron who saw the dethroning of Arthas and him being replaced by Bolvar.
- Xal'atah speaks of the void prison weakening that keeps N'zoth in stasis at the end of the emerald nightmare, there is -no- hint at all that KJ is involved in any of this.
- Arms warrior, Shadow priest, Holy paladin all have artifact quests tied to the old gods, as there are 3 tied to KJ.
- Helya was corrupted by Loken, who was corrupted by the Old Gods in turn.
- Kobolds in Highmountain briefly explain their backlore, implied to be old god related.
- Doing the full Drak'thul quest gives you refferences to N'zoth and the old gods.
- Il'gynoth mentions N'zoth and resting in Ny'alotha.
- Xal'atah also whispers that dreams and demons can be corrupted by the old gods, weather shes lying or not is indeterminate, but she mentions Ny'alotha and the gods -alot- during most of her dialogue.
- Arthas appears in Frost DK encounters with alot of hints to void and darkness.
- Given that Il'gynoth mentions the five pillars could be responsible for freeing the old gods it does -not- take a genious to figure out who the -real- end boss is going to be once we inavertly unleash them.

First of all, no, Chronicle pretty much says it was Yogg and never once mentions Nzoth to my recollection as having anything at all to do with the Nightmare. Yogg was only able to do this due to the world tree in Northrend being connected to the dream and reaching to deep near/into his prison. Nzoth had no way to enter the ED and the only mention was Metzen talking out of his ass as usual at Blizzcon and his statement was "I thought we had said he was responsible" to the point that it was like he didn't even know, but was trying to say so(hint they never said Nzoth was EVER, but headcanon lovers made the connection when in reality it was just that after being defeated in the book, Xavius was the darkness at Aln). So until you bring some definitive proof that Nzoth was in the dream, he wasn't. And metzen talking out of his ass isn't proof since he also has said many other untrue things about lore at Blizzcon.

Secondly, all of your other statements can easily lead to Nzoth being the 2nd tier raid rather than the final tier since they claim there will be 3 raid tiers this expansion. Nzoth and Azshara are chumps on par with Ragnaros and Lei Shen and don't really deserve more than an interlude.

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Azeroth is an unborn titan, which is why Sargeras wants to destroy the planet. The spirits of all the other titans are inside the surviving Keepers. It's inevitable we will need the assistance of the titan forces to defeat Sargeras.

Too bad Odyn is a giant douche and I still don't get why they haven't addressed this in game. I mean the warriors have Thorim and Hodir to my knowledge so while of course our player characters haven't read Chronicle, those two damn well know what Odyn had done to Helya and the valkyr(although some of them are in fact willing now, but it's more cultish if anything rather than the first he just screwed over).

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They were, and Azeroth is the last and only World-soul.

Chronicles rewrote the Titan civilization into a small group of lonely humanoid constellations who were trying to find more of their kind.

Funnily enough, this made them even bigger and harder to show, as they aren't mountain-sized metal people anymore, they're bigger than planets and possibly made of stars and other celestial bodies. But since they're all dead or inside a Watcher, we only have to worry about Sargeras, who also happens to like using mortal bodies.

Half correct....

The titans are 100% planet. There are in fact beings made of stars that serve the titans called constellars like Algalon. The titans themselves are not made of stars at all. They are huge, but oddly enough the constellars are smaller which is weird since in our reality stars are much larger than planets.

Pretty sure also Chronicle did say there were more than just the pantheon, or at the very least more world souls they had found. It did not say if any of them had matured later or if Sargeras had killed them. However, it lists out the Pantheon by name and Aggramar is not included in that list which is a clear indicator that there were in fact other titans that were not a part of the pantheon.

[LaserChild9]

Pretty sure also Chronicle did say there were more than just the pantheon, or at the very least more world souls they had found. It did not say if any of them had matured later or if Sargeras had killed them. However, it lists out the Pantheon by name and Aggramar is not included in that list which is a clear indicator that there were in fact other titans that were not a part of the pantheon.

Aggramar was Sargeras' Lieutenant and after his fall, his replacement, he was definitely part of the pantheon.

[Aquamonkey]

Pretty sure also Chronicle did say there were more than just the pantheon, or at the very least more world souls they had found. It did not say if any of them had matured later or if Sargeras had killed them. However, it lists out the Pantheon by name and Aggramar is not included in that list which is a clear indicator that there were in fact other titans that were not a part of the pantheon.

The Pantheon are the only titans found by Aman'Thul (Aggramar is listed in Chronicle).

Aman'Thul and his siblings later became known as the Pantheon.
--Chronicle

They sought more world-souls to awaken and only found Azeroth. There's the one Sargeras destroyed. There could potentially be more titans and sleeping world-souls, but there are only those 9 that have been revealed.

This is a retcon of previous info that the Pantheon was an elite sect that ruled the titans.

[TriHard]

Been thinking about this one lately, and I have realized that KJ / Avatar will be the last boss and the next expansion is probably going to be Old Gods related along with Azshara

[Shaqthefat]

First of all, no, Chronicle pretty much says it was Yogg and never once mentions Nzoth to my recollection as having anything at all to do with the Nightmare. Yogg was only able to do this due to the world tree in Northrend being connected to the dream and reaching to deep near/into his prison. Nzoth had no way to enter the ED and the only mention was Metzen talking out of his ass as usual at Blizzcon and his statement was "I thought we had said he was responsible" to the point that it was like he didn't even know, but was trying to say so(hint they never said Nzoth was EVER, but headcanon lovers made the connection when in reality it was just that after being defeated in the book, Xavius was the darkness at Aln). So until you bring some definitive proof that Nzoth was in the dream, he wasn't. And metzen talking out of his ass isn't proof since he also has said many other untrue things about lore at Blizzcon.

Secondly, all of your other statements can easily lead to Nzoth being the 2nd tier raid rather than the final tier since they claim there will be 3 raid tiers this expansion. Nzoth and Azshara are chumps on par with Ragnaros and Lei Shen and don't really deserve more than an interlude.

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Too bad Odyn is a giant douche and I still don't get why they haven't addressed this in game. I mean the warriors have Thorim and Hodir to my knowledge so while of course our player characters haven't read Chronicle, those two damn well know what Odyn had done to Helya and the valkyr(although some of them are in fact willing now, but it's more cultish if anything rather than the first he just screwed over).

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Half correct....

The titans are 100% planet. There are in fact beings made of stars that serve the titans called constellars like Algalon. The titans themselves are not made of stars at all. They are huge, but oddly enough the constellars are smaller which is weird since in our reality stars are much larger than planets.

Pretty sure also Chronicle did say there were more than just the pantheon, or at the very least more world souls they had found. It did not say if any of them had matured later or if Sargeras had killed them. However, it lists out the Pantheon by name and Aggramar is not included in that list which is a clear indicator that there were in fact other titans that were not a part of the pantheon.

The chronicle says Yogg-Saron opened the way for the OTHER old gods. It is stated in legion that our planet is the last standing, meaning we pretty much have the last world soul. It also says VERY CLEARLY that Aggramar was in the Pantheon.

N'zoth being a second tier raid boss would be the most stupid thing ever. He is responsible for more stuff then some of the final bosses of the expansions. He controls the nightmare, which we can can confirm because of the whispers, he was driving force behind the Cataclysm, and he made the naga. The only end boss that we can argue has done more to Azeroth is Arthas and maybe Garrosh.

[Qualia]

Too bad Odyn is a giant douche and I still don't get why they haven't addressed this in game. I mean the warriors have Thorim and Hodir to my knowledge so while of course our player characters haven't read Chronicle, those two damn well know what Odyn had done to Helya and the valkyr(although some of them are in fact willing now, but it's more cultish if anything rather than the first he just screwed over).

To be fair - while Odyn was a jerk and kind of a tyrant, he wasn't really *that* bad. He did all he did for the safety of Azeroth. Additionally, he was only bad to his followers with a single decision, and only to some of the first generation(s?) of the Val'kyr (turning them into Val'kyr against their wills). He didn't do anything to other races on Azeroth, he didn't force his fellow keepers to join his quest. Later on, the Vrykul saw it as a honor, so he didn't even need to use force to create Val'kyr anymore. Compared to some of our current allies, Odyn is still pretty tame. In comparison, Helya - especially in the artifact lores - were depicted to be much more evil (and only for the crappy reason of screwing Odyn over instead of something as grand as "for Azeroth").

I don't play Warrior so I'm not sure about Hodir, but I'm sure I saw Thorim said something in the line of "I was wrong to question my father (Odyn)'s choice" in the "Ulduar's Oath" warrior campaign when we came to assist him to fight against an attack of the Legion under Odyn's request.

The chronicle says Yogg-Saron opened the way for the OTHER old gods. It is stated in legion that our planet is the last standing, meaning we pretty much have the last world soul.

I'd love to see a screenshot, or the exact quote as the source of the bolded part. I've seen people mentioning that here and there, but I've never gotten any solid evidence of that - most of the time, the answer came in the line of "an NPC said something *like* this", or "I read it here and there (unofficial sources such as youtube channel)". As I mentioned in another thread a while ago, something in the line of "This is the last planet standing" - without knowing the exact wordings, can mean differently. People might have just mis-remembered / misinterpreted the statement. For example, "This is the last planet standing", "This is one of the last planet standing" and "This is the last planet standing against us" all carry significantly different meanings, and yet just one or two words off. After all, it'd be weird if Azeroth is literally the last standing planet, because it'd make no sense why the Legion didn't physically come to us, or we have to be somehow in middle of literally nowhere with the closest planet being many thousands+ light years apart.

All in all, I'd appreciate if you can give us some sources - either in form of a clip of that, or at least the name of the event / quest / campaign / dungeon / raid + which NPC said that, so I can verify and clear the matter for us.

[Selastan]

Been thinking about this one lately, and I have realized that KJ / Avatar will be the last boss and the next expansion is probably going to be Old Gods related along with Azshara

I feel like it will be Shadowlands. Maybe the only way to stop N'Zoth is from his own realm. Maybe work alongside some dead heroes. Or Villains. Imagine trying to get Arthas and the Forsaken to work side-by-side....

[MajicMundl]

This ist how i think its going down:

We defeat Guldan in the upcoming Nighthold Raid and after we optained the last Pillar we go to the Tomb of Sargeras and there we seal the Portal after killing/banishing KJ but at the same time we free Nzoth from his prison which leads into an Old God Raid possible with a Naga Theme too and hopefully Azshara as well.

[purebalance]

To be fair - while Odyn was a jerk and kind of a tyrant, he wasn't really *that* bad. He did all he did for the safety of Azeroth. Additionally, he was only bad to his followers with a single decision, and only to some of the first generation(s?) of the Val'kyr (turning them into Val'kyr against their wills). He didn't do anything to other races on Azeroth, he didn't force his fellow keepers to join his quest. Later on, the Vrykul saw it as a honor, so he didn't even need to use force to create Val'kyr anymore. Compared to some of our current allies, Odyn is still pretty tame. In comparison, Helya - especially in the artifact lores - were depicted to be much more evil (and only for the crappy reason of screwing Odyn over instead of something as grand as "for Azeroth").

I don't play Warrior so I'm not sure about Hodir, but I'm sure I saw Thorim said something in the line of "I was wrong to question my father (Odyn)'s choice" in the "Ulduar's Oath" warrior campaign when we came to assist him to fight against an attack of the Legion under Odyn's request.


I'd love to see a screenshot, or the exact quote as the source of the bolded part. I've seen people mentioning that here and there, but I've never gotten any solid evidence of that - most of the time, the answer came in the line of "an NPC said something *like* this", or "I read it here and there (unofficial sources such as youtube channel)". As I mentioned in another thread a while ago, something in the line of "This is the last planet standing" - without knowing the exact wordings, can mean differently. People might have just mis-remembered / misinterpreted the statement. For example, "This is the last planet standing", "This is one of the last planet standing" and "This is the last planet standing against us" all carry significantly different meanings, and yet just one or two words off. After all, it'd be weird if Azeroth is literally the last standing planet, because it'd make no sense why the Legion didn't physically come to us, or we have to be somehow in middle of literally nowhere with the closest planet being many thousands+ light years apart.

All in all, I'd appreciate if you can give us some sources - either in form of a clip of that, or at least the name of the event / quest / campaign / dungeon / raid + which NPC said that, so I can verify and clear the matter for us.

Still the Odyn thing is a "does the end justify the means" situation when honestly the fact that he has essentially denied COUNTLESS Vrykul women(I'm assuming they're all women since I never saw a male valkyr) AND another of his own kind the ability to ever go to the afterlife. If Helya or any valkyr die, they just end. They go nowhere. Many of them were forced upon that choice and the rest have been essentially lied to about the choice and made it seem like a 100% good thing.

On the topic of what Chronicle precisely says is that Yogg got in and that the others COULD get in, but nowhere does it say that they did get in. It only said he got into the dream. It's on the page about Andrassil/Vordrassil. Even more hilarious on the topic of Nzoth and the dream is that I got my first raid quest today from the mission from the order hall and it flat out says that Il'gynoth is allied with the Legion not the old gods. There's only 3 quests so it wasn't a mistake since the other two are Cenarius and Xavius and both quest texts apply specifically to each of them. So we pretty much have near full confirmation that Nzoth has nothing to do with the EN unless as usual Blizzard doesn't know what is in their own game. Xavius was always a Legion lackey(well Azshara and then Legion essentially) and in fact never turned and has still been working for the Legion in the Dream.

[glowpipe]

Calling it now. Its gonna be Jaina Crymore. She's been possesed by demons

[purebalance]

This ist how i think its going down:

We defeat Guldan in the upcoming Nighthold Raid and after we optained the last Pillar we go to the Tomb of Sargeras and there we seal the Portal after killing/banishing KJ but at the same time we free Nzoth from his prison which leads into an Old God Raid possible with a Naga Theme too and hopefully Azshara as well.

If you check the soundfiles for Nighthold, there's something else there other than the pillar that we're trying to obtain or rather take away from Guldan which is what he is using the eye on. However, like I've been saying the two you named are extremely easily the 2nd tier raid and considering we get the 5th pillar we will be using them before the 2nd tier happens. If you listened to or read the Guldan shorts he drew on some strange power deep down that allowed him to open the portal. In the notes for the Destro lock weapon, you know Sargeras himself didn't have the power for a portal like the one that Guldan opened considering even to send the avatar there he needed to do MASSIVE work to make the scepter which rules out the avatar being the source of the power and easily points at it being Nzoth's prison leading us to kill him in the second tier.

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The chronicle says Yogg-Saron opened the way for the OTHER old gods. It is stated in legion that our planet is the last standing, meaning we pretty much have the last world soul. It also says VERY CLEARLY that Aggramar was in the Pantheon.

N'zoth being a second tier raid boss would be the most stupid thing ever. He is responsible for more stuff then some of the final bosses of the expansions. He controls the nightmare, which we can can confirm because of the whispers, he was driving force behind the Cataclysm, and he made the naga. The only end boss that we can argue has done more to Azeroth is Arthas and maybe Garrosh.

Source on the last planet standing considering hell Outland is still technically a planet and since the legion has access to Draenor that's also a planet they do not have.

Also, Nzoth is the WEAKEST of all the old gods and has been involved in stupid things. Nzoth was not the original corruptor of DW considering the Aspects were mostly in what is now Northrend at the time and he isn't named as specifically being the one(he was allied with him in Cata because.... he was the only living one left!) which implies it was once again most likely Yogg who did that. So basically all Nzoth did was save Azshara from drowning and/or becoming a whithered which she would have had she been on dry land as an elf(faster than Thal and company start shaking and scratching in game considering her level of addiction). Both Azshara and Nzoth are saturday morning cartoon villains at this point. The only thing that made Azshara a global threat has been gone for thousands of years and now she's on par with our best mages(hell she couldn't even subdue Neptulon and her minion is now his pet). Nzoth is the weakest of all of the old gods and was involved in like ONE scheme. The legion was behind the nightmare after Yogg as evidenced by the quest to kill il'gynoth from order hall missions.

[Highwhale]

I can see after Gul'Dan downed and Illidan's body retrieved Legion use Varian's body to be vessel of Sargares.

[Shaqthefat]

To be fair - while Odyn was a jerk and kind of a tyrant, he wasn't really *that* bad. He did all he did for the safety of Azeroth. Additionally, he was only bad to his followers with a single decision, and only to some of the first generation(s?) of the Val'kyr (turning them into Val'kyr against their wills). He didn't do anything to other races on Azeroth, he didn't force his fellow keepers to join his quest. Later on, the Vrykul saw it as a honor, so he didn't even need to use force to create Val'kyr anymore. Compared to some of our current allies, Odyn is still pretty tame. In comparison, Helya - especially in the artifact lores - were depicted to be much more evil (and only for the crappy reason of screwing Odyn over instead of something as grand as "for Azeroth").

I don't play Warrior so I'm not sure about Hodir, but I'm sure I saw Thorim said something in the line of "I was wrong to question my father (Odyn)'s choice" in the "Ulduar's Oath" warrior campaign when we came to assist him to fight against an attack of the Legion under Odyn's request.


I'd love to see a screenshot, or the exact quote as the source of the bolded part. I've seen people mentioning that here and there, but I've never gotten any solid evidence of that - most of the time, the answer came in the line of "an NPC said something *like* this", or "I read it here and there (unofficial sources such as youtube channel)". As I mentioned in another thread a while ago, something in the line of "This is the last planet standing" - without knowing the exact wordings, can mean differently. People might have just mis-remembered / misinterpreted the statement. For example, "This is the last planet standing", "This is one of the last planet standing" and "This is the last planet standing against us" all carry significantly different meanings, and yet just one or two words off. After all, it'd be weird if Azeroth is literally the last standing planet, because it'd make no sense why the Legion didn't physically come to us, or we have to be somehow in middle of literally nowhere with the closest planet being many thousands+ light years apart.

All in all, I'd appreciate if you can give us some sources - either in form of a clip of that, or at least the name of the event / quest / campaign / dungeon / raid + which NPC said that, so I can verify and clear the matter for us.

The wrath guard rare in the warden part of the DH starting area. He says something along the lines of "Your world is the last standing"

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If you check the soundfiles for Nighthold, there's something else there other than the pillar that we're trying to obtain or rather take away from Guldan which is what he is using the eye on. However, like I've been saying the two you named are extremely easily the 2nd tier raid and considering we get the 5th pillar we will be using them before the 2nd tier happens. If you listened to or read the Guldan shorts he drew on some strange power deep down that allowed him to open the portal. In the notes for the Destro lock weapon, you know Sargeras himself didn't have the power for a portal like the one that Guldan opened considering even to send the avatar there he needed to do MASSIVE work to make the scepter which rules out the avatar being the source of the power and easily points at it being Nzoth's prison leading us to kill him in the second tier.

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Source on the last planet standing considering hell Outland is still technically a planet and since the legion has access to Draenor that's also a planet they do not have.

Also, Nzoth is the WEAKEST of all the old gods and has been involved in stupid things. Nzoth was not the original corruptor of DW considering the Aspects were mostly in what is now Northrend at the time and he isn't named as specifically being the one(he was allied with him in Cata because.... he was the only living one left!) which implies it was once again most likely Yogg who did that. So basically all Nzoth did was save Azshara from drowning and/or becoming a whithered which she would have had she been on dry land as an elf(faster than Thal and company start shaking and scratching in game considering her level of addiction). Both Azshara and Nzoth are saturday morning cartoon villains at this point. The only thing that made Azshara a global threat has been gone for thousands of years and now she's on par with our best mages(hell she couldn't even subdue Neptulon and her minion is now his pet). Nzoth is the weakest of all of the old gods and was involved in like ONE scheme. The legion was behind the nightmare after Yogg as evidenced by the quest to kill il'gynoth from order hall missions.

Il'gynoth's death quote is literally "N'zoth... I journey to Nyalotha."

Blizzard even stated that N'zoth was the driving force behind the cataclysm and that hasn't even been retconned. While it is likely all 3 old gods contributed to corrupting him it was N'zoth that played part on the cataclysm. Yogg-Saron get more credit than he deserves. He opened the way to the emerald dream, he isolated Odyn, and he isolated the other keepers to Ulduar. That's all he has done without the other old gods. N'zoth fueled the Cataclysm, made the naga, and now has complete control of the Emerald Nightmare.

[Enthralled]

The wrath guard rare in the warden part of the DH starting area. He says something along the lines of "Your world is the last standing"

But we know that's wrong. Even if Outland is the only other one, that still makes his statement wrong.

Anyway, the Illidan book strongly implies, if not states outright, that there are other worlds standing, but they are few and far between and falling fast.

[Shaqthefat]

But we know that's wrong. Even if Outland is the only other one, that still makes his statement wrong.

Anyway, the Illidan book strongly implies, if not states outright, that there are other worlds standing, but they are few and far between and falling fast.

Outland is a rock in the nether. Also the illidan book took place during BC. Which was a long time ago

[Enthralled]

Outland is a rock in the nether. Also the illidan book took place during BC. Which was a long time ago

Nine years is a drop in the bucket.

[MikeBogina]

Been thinking about this one lately, and I have realized that KJ / Avatar will be the last boss and the next expansion is probably going to be Old Gods related along with Azshara

The past 2 expansions have had their final raid actually be more of the next expansions enemy, with SoO being a sample of WoD and HFC a sample of Legion. I personally think, we're not getting a full 100% Demon raid at the end. I think we might finally see what an Old God's corruption on demons might look like and whatever the final enemy of the expansion, will be some Old God abomination. Maybe KJ or an avatar of Sargeras with tentacles and stuff

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Nine years is a drop in the bucket.

and yet a few demon hunter npcs bitch about how long they were imprisoned.

[Shaqthefat]

Nine years is a drop in the bucket.

A lot can happen 9 years when an infinite army is marching across the universe eradicating every planet they come across.