"No way back, Sweden will never be what it was"

[Deleted]

Immigration is not going to affect culture. Numbers arent just enough to guarantee a change in culture. There are other major issues that are more damaging to national identity and cultural development.
Globalisation, Urbanisation, Lowering of educational standards.
Immigration, unless we're talking HUGE numbers, does not really affect cultural changes.

It has. UK is a shining example of that. I lived in an immigrant community in Boston, Linconshire. The entire town is just one big nest of immigrants. Then I moved to other area.
The difference was vast. In the former example, I felt like I was home. The only place where I heard English was on the radio from cars. Otherwise, the most typical Eastern European town.
I wasnt ''in'' UK for about 7 months.

And then some wonder why that town voted overwhelmingly Brexit.

And as someone who also lived in Latvia for three years, the damage that their national character, culture has sustained because of the massive Russian immigration during the USSR era is irreparable. They will never recover from it. And the divisions in that society are frightening. It reminds of how my little Swedish town is starting to look like. Self-imposed ethnic and religious isolation, increasing every year. It is frightening.

I have had quite a long live, most of my it living abroad. Immigration is no joke. It is not something as mundane as change of weather as some people talk about it in this thread.

[Theinquisition]

I keep trying to tell people that my ancestors weren't conquerors but rather just refugees from Europe who wanted to add a new European identity to the Americas.

Ha thats right, we offered a whole hell a lot of cultural enrichment.

[AeneasBK]

By slaughtering the majority of the native population?

To be fair aren't American children taught that you guys *were* refugees, the Pilgrims fleeing persecution and whatnot...

[Deleted]

Aren't the majority of people coming into Sweden refugees, not immigrants? My understanding is that oftentimes refugees are more concerned about simply getting somewhere that's safe and relatively prosperous, whereas immigrants typically want to go to a specific place to make a life for themselves and be productive citizens (hopefully putting to use skills they already have in the process). That, or learn a lot and then take it back to their home country to make a better difference there. Refugees aren't usually the ones that get excited about going somewhere and integrating, they just don't want to live in a war-torn hellhole.

You answered that in your post.

They are in safe haven. It is called Turkey and Lebanon. Not a paradise by any stretch of imagination but surely safe.
You know, they are dodging at least 6 countries en route to Sweden, Germany. None of them are in a state of war.

[ArguesWithStrangers]

By slaughtering the majority of the native population?

To be fair, diseases did the vast majority of that work but for those who survived, yeah welcome to our diversity suckfest red man!

[May90]

To be fair aren't American children taught that you guys *were* refugees, the Pilgrims fleeing persecution and whatnot...

Well, one doesn't cancel the other. Many of them fled persecution, true, but they weren't necessarily the nicest folks upon arrival.

There are very few parallels here though... Unless refugees literally start hunting down Europeans and killing them in millions, the situations aren't even remotely comparable.

[Kalis]

No but using said facts to say things like "I don't want any North Africans to immigrate to my country because one in every X thousand is a violent criminal" *is* kinda racist is it not? It prejudging someone based on their ethnicity/race, which is what I understood is basically textbook...

Lots of the supposed refugees are white, kind of difficult to claim that white people are racist towards whites, so not really proof of racism. You could argue that it is bigotry toward another nation or region, but everyone is a bigot to some degree.

The issue is, are you obliged to put up with increased crime rates in your country when you help others? I would say not a chance. If they are refugees and commit crimes out of proportion to their population levels, then no more get let in and you sift through the ones already there.

I have said a number of times that I grew up around Middle Eastern refugees in London, they knew that keeping out of trouble was incredibly important to being accepted to society, so they made sure the people in their community behaved. Those were both Muslim and Christians, and they had far less support than refugees do nowadays.

[ArguesWithStrangers]

To be fair aren't American children taught that you guys *were* refugees, the Pilgrims fleeing persecution and whatnot...

They were at first, and for the most part were on decent terms with the natives. That is until they had enough numbers and weapons to not have to bother with being nice anymore. Then they just started killing for what they wanted. It's kind of how conquest by immigration works. It happened again in Texas, and, well everywhere.

[Fojos]

Indeed. Every single organ I've examined apart from the blatantly racist ones, attribute the crime rates among immigrants/children of immigrants to tangible reasons based on their research. I'll believe them over fearmongering individuals on the web.

https://www.bra.se/download/18.cba82...h_utlandet.pdf

After accounting for socioeconomic factors people from certain areas still have a huge overrepresentation. Hey, maybe you consider BRÅ racist as well.

[PC2]

Indeed. Every single organ I've examined apart from the blatantly racist ones, attribute the crime rates among immigrants/children of immigrants to tangible reasons based on their research. I'll believe them over fearmongering individuals on the web.

It isn't racist at all. The average white European is not as poor as the average brown person from North Africa. Europeans importing more of those brown people will cause an increase in crime compared to not importing them.

[Deleted]

It isn't racist at all. The average white European is not as poor as the average brown person from North Africa. Europeans importing more of those brown people will cause an increase in crime compared to not importing them.

The vietnamese aren't exactly wealthy either but they have a far lower crime rate than people from north africa.

[Kalis]

Indeed. Every single organ I've examined apart from the blatantly racist ones, attribute the crime rates among immigrants/children of immigrants to tangible reasons based on their research. I'll believe them over fearmongering individuals on the web.

Isn't that just whitewashing their crimes in order to suit your agenda? Do they have a higher level of crime or not? Yes or no?

[Deleted]

It's so late. Bye.

[Frozen Death Knight]

Looking at the crowds in Sweden, it really doesn't look that diverse actually...

Yeah, except for the people with obvious foreign ethnic backgrounds, totally not diverse. Obviously they do not count.

Also, shame on Swedes for being Swedes. How dare they being what they are?

[Fojos]

The vietnamese aren't exactly wealthy either but they have a far lower crime rate than people from north africa.

In many cases people from east Asia even have lower crime rates than the native population.

[Damajin]

Immigration, unless we're talking HUGE numbers, does not really affect cultural changes.

Sorry man, but this flops in the face of an extended timeline. It certainly wouldn't immediately short of it being a Crusade-type invasion force bent on wholesale massacre but we're confronted everyday with all sorts of info from demographic to the amount of(and lack thereof) of cultural integration. An escalating immigrant population that is demonstrating no effort nor interest now or in the long term of integration is not only going to affect cultural changes but will inevitably engage in population displacement. It is even more inevitable when there are those in the host nation who see this as not only a valid event but a preferable one and actively support and advance it.

[May90]

It isn't racist at all. The average white European is not as poor as the average brown person from North Africa. Europeans importing more of those brown people will cause an increase in crime compared to not importing them.

I don't think anyone disputes that people from third world crime-ridden countries are more inclined to commit crime than people born in low-crime countries like Sweden. The reality is, though, that those crime rates are still really low, compared to the population. I mean, if, as a result of importing a large number of immigrants, crime rates raise from 0.01% to 0.012%, then is it really that big of a problem? It is not like you've imported 100,000 immigrants to a 10m country, and crime rates suddenly doubled.

[AeneasBK]

Lots of the supposed refugees are white, kind of difficult to claim that white people are racist towards whites, so not really proof of racism. You could argue that it is bigotry toward another nation or region, but everyone is a bigot to some degree.

The issue is, are you obliged to put up with increased crime rates in your country when you help others? I would say not a chance. If they are refugees and commit crimes out of proportion to their population levels, then no more get let in and you sift through the ones already there.

I have said a number of times that I grew up around Middle Eastern refugees in London, they knew that keeping out of trouble was incredibly important to being accepted to society, so they made sure the people in their community behaved. Those were both Muslim and Christians, and they had far less support than refugees do nowadays.

I don't think anyone needs to tolerate criminals in thier country who aren't native citizens if they do not wish to. I simply think preventing someone from entering your country because the race or ethinc region they are from (or however you wish to describe it) has a higher proportion of criminal records per head; is ... racist.

Or if that word rustles jimmies too much, we could try ethnicist but thats a bit of a mouthful, and frankly everyone knows what you mean anyway and the people saying "Eww they aren't strictly a biological 'race' different so it's not racism" are just clutching at semantics really

And despite events in Cologne and elsewhere and all the reported fuss; if the numbers of migrants is as high as claimed (in the millions) I'm not seeing a good reason to refuse respite to those millions based on the actions of some tens of thousands. But I'm a bleeding heart so I guess thats my flaw.

[Fojos]

I don't think anyone disputes that people from third world crime-ridden countries are more inclined to commit crime than people born in low-crime countries like Sweden. The reality is, though, that those crime rates are still really low, compared to the population. I mean, if, as a result of importing a large number of immigrants, crime rates raise from 0.01% to 0.012%, then is it really that big of a problem? It is not like you've imported 100,000 immigrants to a 10m country, and crime rates suddenly doubled.

Among for example Somali people in the nordic countries as many as 26% have been charged with crimes. It is a problem, especially when we receive an increasing amount of people from those areas.

In any case do you want to make it seem okay when people suddenly can't even walk outside anymore due to being in a much higher risk of being raped or robbed?

[PC2]

The vietnamese aren't exactly wealthy either but they have a far lower crime rate than people from north africa.

But a bigger proportion of immigrants from Vietnam are through a planned immigration process?